Training game emphasizing trading - Emperor

[Bede]

Right now our military is adequate to our peace-time needs. We need three or four horses max for barb supression, two MP's in any town larger than 5 (excluding Utica and Carthage as they don't stay above 5 long enough to cost us a bunch of coin for a couple of turns).

With rax in Theveste and Leptis Magna and a little growth and some terrain work, we can get to 6-10spt in those two towns which is enough to train swords and horses adequate to our needs. Other rax locations are one or two front line cities. In our current configuration that would be one town on the west spine and another on the east.

We will need boats but have a lot of places that can build them (even if slowly) once the critical town improvements are in place.

Which raises an interesting question: what are the needed improvements? And its sister: where should they go?

BTW, I firmly believe that settler and worker farms should never be turned off until there is a city in every corner/crevice/cranny of the map and every piece of ground is trimmed to perfection.

 

[dl123654]

oopsy if you want to take it go ahead

 

[oopsy poopsy]

Ok I'll play next. We have one settler. He'll go straight to that choke unless he's really far and I can make and send one faster. I'm gonna change a ton of the city builds I think. I also want to start making a lot more workers, less than one per town is slowing us down. I'll try to sort out carthage and utica and get them working again. Also I'm not at all happy about theveste being the FP, but don't know what to do about it.
Here's how I see city placement to go with the choke first and then fill out the east.

I'm going to watch the world junior championships of hockey (us canadians and our hockey) but I can play tommorrow. Please any more advice or whatever let me know.

 

[plarq]

I'm sorry team.For my unclear description and play in a hurry.

Yes,I boot Toku and he declares,not us,our reputation is still clean.Japanese Elite warrior approaches,and I'm quite confident that he'll sneak attack our city.And MA said we're average,so I took 65g for a war.When I boot him,he stands in the forest SW of Carthage Novo.And he's willing to sign peace in my last turn,straight.
Well it's not a good decision,I think,after my decision:
1.if he leaves rather than DoW,we'll suffer a loss of gpt.
2.if he declares and willing to sign peace in my turns,we still get nothing,and he has bad feeling of us,and has a tendency to threat us again.
3.if he declares and refuse to sign peace.We'd lose a city and lose control of him.
If I leave him alone:
1.if I don't boot and he sneak attack us,we lost nothing but 65g.
2.if he leaves,we have one more trading partner.

 

[Bede]

Ego te absolvo

An fine act of contrition, my son.

Point of play: the AI will usually not attack a defended city with a single warrior. The poor git was out barb hunting. It's when you see two or more swords on the way you can start to worry.

Sirian has a term for it, "Diety RoP". It is not uncommon to see hordes of AI warriors wandering around the map, crossing your territory and generally making a nuisance of themselves. But that is all they are doing, unless you have an undefended city, then look out.

Yeah, the FP in Theveste was my bad. It's just I had a pile of shields when Japan built the SoZ and nowhere else useful to put them. At some point we can think about moving the palace. And even so, having it early during Despotism is good for the overall commerce.

 

[plarq]

@Bede:Thanks for your reminder,the poor warrior is just returning home.And is it forbidden to do palace jump in LK/RBC/Sirian rules?Or you mean we hand build a new palace?

I'll pray in a pRNG church to compensate my Civ sins.

 

[Bede]

Hand build or MGL build, no jumping.

 

[oopsy poopsy]

Thanks Plarq. With the clarification it wasn't nearly as bad. Definitely a risky move that doesn't seem to have hurt us, but it wasn't as crazy as I first thought. Anyway, no worries let's get back to kicking their ass. I'm totally looking forward to playing my turns when I get home (by the way Canada totally kicked Russia's ass for the gold medal 6-1).

 

[trikos]

Hi

It seems like a lot is going on in the game. I haven't been able to catch up on everything because I am attending a conference. It will probably take a week before I have time for a serious participation.

 

[dl123654]

oopsy, I was looking at your dot map, looks good except for the city near the volcano. Cities right near volcanos are not a good idea, they can destroy the city. Moving that city 1 square N or NW would be good.

 

[oopsy poopsy]

how about 1NW? I'd like to keep the three spacing up their for defensive purposes, since those cities will never be production centers.

 

[oopsy poopsy]

ok so I made peace right away which is good, but it's now 290bc and the japanese have demanded 100g, should I give it to them (i think this counts as trading)? If I don't I'm sure that they will declare war and we're back where we started. Also, greece just landed on the eastern most point of our island just by the jungle, but that's a whole other issue.

 

[Bede]

I would pay him off, then wall him into the jungle.

Nice dot map. That far from the core and in the desert I wouldn't worry about the spacing too much. Towns will never grow past six and I would be inclined to lock them down at 2, one working stiff and a tax vampire, so you could cram them in even tighter than the 3, unless you have a food bonus somewhere.

 

[dl123654]

Changed Events

 

[oopsy poopsy]

This is roughly what happened during my turns:
1-350 massive reorganization
emphasis on settlers and workers in core
made peace with japan
slider to 20 get rid of specialists
2-330
just moving around
defeat some barbs that were attacking cirta
republic available
3-310
focus on building infastructure around FP and neighboring cities
4-290
japan demands 100g, give it to them
greece shows up with a hoplite and settler on east coast
slider to 30
5-270
start dancing with greeks (didn't settle in place)
6-250
settled lol at west chokepoint
7-230
settlers on way to all eastern city positions
8-210
more dancing until settlers can arrive and lock them in
9-190
massiv barb near lol
spain and greece have currency(brings new age)
can get from either for 442g
no good trading opps though but neth has military alliance with spain
against germany and the gold to buy curr easy.
settled rusguniae north of inland ocean
170
neth gets currency
locked greeks into forest box, nowhere to move
150
leave turn for next, there are trade possibilities that we should discuss
also, you may notice I have irrigated some grass,
we will be in a different gov. soon and I wanted to get water to
some areas so I figured it wasn't a waste
greeks finish ToA
spanish finish Great wall
greeks settle city in forest (I probably shouldn't have walled them off north, maybe they would have continued to explore north until we could fill the spots with our cities)
russia settles city north of greek city as well (didn't see them before, but I
can't be sure if they've just got there and settled asap or if I missed them, sorry)

This was the first time I've played where there was so much going on that I didn't start so I hope I didn't miss anything major. For instance I had a galley asleep for 8 turns 'cause I never noticed it was there. My first turn was easier 'cause that early there's not a lot going on, it's easy to focus, but I found this a very different experience from my normal routine. Anyway, there are trade opportunities to be had but I don't find them very palatable. No other then the netherlands has any reasonable amount of gold and the netherlands have all the available techs. It may be worth the 400g for currency just so we can see the next techs that become available (also it may be cheaper now since netherlands just got it as well and I didn't check at the start of this turn what it would cost us.

@dl: sorry if I stole you're window to play.

here's what we look like:

and here's the save:

OP_training150bc.sav

 

[Rik Meleet]

9-190
massiv barb near lol
spain and greece have currency(brings new age)
can get from either for 442g
no good trading opps though but neth has military alliance with spain
against germany and the gold to buy curr easy.

- If you have a saved game of this, I'm eager to check.

Edit: I would have loved to know each turn what techs all civs have. That helps me in pointing out what the good trade-timing is.

 

[dl123654]

I have like an hour right now, since no one else claimed it yet, I'll take it

 

[oopsy poopsy]

These were what the other civs had during my turns. The two times when I was tempted but couldn't see a really good trade were at 210bc and 190bc:
350bc
Neth - 548g
Spain - 227g monarchy
Russia - 129g
Ger - 77g
Korea - 32g
Greece - 20g monarchy
Japan -2g
330bc
Neth - 544g(-4)
Spain - 228g monarchy(+1)
Russia - 143g(+14)
Ger - 81g(+4)
Korea - 35g(+3)
Greece - 22g(+2) monarchy
Japan -0g(-2)
310bc
Neth - 769g republic monarchy
Spain - 0g republic monarchy
Russia - 158g (+15)
Ger - 85g(+4)
Korea - 38g(+3)
Greece - 25g(+3) monarchy
Japan -4g(+4)
290bc
Neth - 770(+1)republic monarchy
Spain - 0g republic monarchy
Russia - 175g (+17)
Ger - 89g(+4)
Korea - 41g(+3)
Greece - 29g(+4) monarchy
Japan - 107(+3) 100g from us for no war
270bc
neth 771(+1) republic monarchy
Spain - 0g republic monarchy
Russia - 0g (-175)monarchy
Ger - 93g(+4)
Korea - 69g(+28)
Greece - 139g monarchy
Japan - 109(+2)
250bc
neth 733(-37) republic monarchy
Spain - 19g(+19) republic monarchy
Russia - 0 monarchy
Ger - 97g(+4)
Korea - 72g(+3)
Greece - 18g (-119) monarchy
Japan - 113(+4)
230bc
neth 705(-26) republic monarchy
Spain - 39g(+20) republic monarchy
Russia - 0 monarchy
Ger - 101g(+4)
Korea - 0g(-72)
Greece - 112g (+94) monarchy
Japan - 117(+4)
210bc
neth 616(-89) republic monarchy
Spain - 63g(+24) republic monarchy
Russia - 0 monarchy
Ger - 106g(+5)
Korea - 1g(+1)
Greece - 200g (+88) monarchy
Japan - 0g(-117) monarchy
190bc
neth 589(-27) republic monarchy
Spain - 0g(-63) currency republic monarchy
Russia - 6g(+6) monarchy
Ger - 111g(+5)
Korea - 1g
Greece - 180g (-20) monarchy republic currency
Japan - 8g(+8) monarchy
170bc
neth 564(-25) republic monarchy currency
Spain - 1g(+1) currency republic monarchy
Russia - 3g(-3) monarchy
Ger - 116g(+5)
Korea - 2g(+1)
Greece - 43g (-137) monarchy republic currency
Japan - 0g(-8) monarchy
150bc
neth 537(-26) republic monarchy currency
Spain - 2g(+1) currency republic monarchy
Russia - 11g(+8) monarchy
Ger - 121g(+5)
Korea - 3g(+1)
Greece - 104g (+61) monarchy republic currency
Japan - 1g(+1) monarchy

@Rik: I have save for every turn so let me know which one's you want. Also, please either post or pm me your email again so I can email instead of upload the saves. I never quite saw a trade that really worked (doesn't mean it wasn't there) and it's only been 3 turns since currency popped up and none of the civs with it are scientific so there can't be any second level techs yet.

 

[dl123654]

The Revolution

Rik the trading turn is here<---

Preturn 150BC:
Trades:
Japan 1 Monarchy
Greece 104 Currency, Republic, Monarchy
Russia 11 Monarchy
Germany 121 Down Construction
Spain 2 Currency, Republic, Monarchy
Korea 3 Down Polytheism, Construction
Dutch 537 Currency, Republic, Monarchy

Rushed a few improvements

Turn 1 130BC:
Hippo Horse->Aqueduct
Saldae Court->Barrack
Carthago Novo Harbor->Court
Calaris Harbor->Barrack
Found Thaenae
Trades:
Japan 6 Monarchy
Greece 60 Currency, Republic, Monarchy
Russia 4 Monarchy
Germany 125 Down Construction
Spain 4 Currency, Republic, Monarchy
Korea 4 Down Polytheism, Construction
Dutch 493 Currency, Republic, Monarchy

Turn 2 110BC:
Sulcis Court->Catapult
Tingis Harbor->Court
Trades:
Japan 9 Monarchy
Greece 259 Currency, Republic, Monarchy
Russia 0 Monarchy
Germany 0 Republic, Down Construction
Spain 4 Currency, Republic, Monarchy
Korea 5 Down Polytheism, Construction
Dutch 456 Currency, Republic, Monarchy

Turn 3 90BC:
Carthage Settler->Worker
Utica Settler->Worker
Leptis Magna Horse->Horse
Nora Sword->Settler
Trades:
Japan 10 Monarchy
Greece 21 Currency, Republic, Monarchy
Russia 9 Monarchy
Germany 0 Republic, Down Construction
Spain 8 Currency, Republic, Monarchy
Korea 6 Down Polytheism, Construction
Dutch 248 Currency, Republic, Monarchy

Turn 4 70BC:
Theveste Aqueduct->Horse
Malaca Sword->Temple
Trades:
Japan 10 Monarchy
Greece 91 Currency, Republic, Monarchy
Russia 9 Monarchy
Germany 0 Republic, Down Construction
Spain 12 Currency, Republic, Monarchy
Korea 7 Down Polytheism, Construction
Dutch 235 Currency, Republic, Monarchy

Turn 5 50BC:
Carthage Worker->Settler
Utica Worker->Horse
Oea Sword->Sword
Trades:
Japan 7 Monarchy
Greece 17 Currency, Republic, Monarchy
Russia 0 Monarchy
Germany 0 Currency, Republic, Down Construction
Spain 36 Currency, Republic, Monarchy
Korea 8 Down Polytheism, Construction
Dutch 53 Currency, Republic, Monarchy

Trades with Germany are interesting, can trade currency for construction but will wait for more money

Turn 6 30BC:
Found Rusuccuru
Trades:
Japan 3 Monarchy
Greece 102 Currency, Republic, Monarchy
Russia 3 Currency, Republic, Monarchy
Germany 2 Currency, Republic, Down Construction
Spain 8 Currency, Republic, Monarchy
Korea 10 Republic, Down Polytheism, Construction
Dutch 44 Currency, Republic, Monarchy

Decide to trade now:
Trade Germany Currency&2gold for Construction
Trade Korea Republic for Construction&161gold
Trade Japan Monarchy for Republic&4gold
We are now in Middle Ages

Post Trades:
Japan 7 Down Currency
Greece 102 Feudalism, Engineering
Russia 1 Feudalism, Engineering
Germany 0 Monotheism, Down Monarchy
Spain 8 Enginneering
Korea 171 Down Polytheism, Currency
Dutch 44

Start Revolution, 6 turns

Turn 7 10BC:
Found al-Kaf
Trades:
Japan 4 Down Currency
Greece 104 Feudalism, Engineering, Monotheism
Russia 12 Feudalism, Engineering
Germany 1 Monotheism, Engineering
Spain 23 Enginneering
Korea 169 Down Polytheism, Currency
Dutch 53

Turn 8 10AD:
Trades:
Japan 5 Down Currency
Greece 106 Feudalism, Engineering, Monotheism
Russia 12 Feudalism, Engineering
Germany 3 Monotheism, Engineering
Spain 26 Enginneering
Korea 169 Down Polytheism, Currency
Dutch 48

IBT:
Volcano erupts in jungle

Turn 9 30AD:
Trades:
Japan 6 Down Currency
Greece 107 Feudalism, Engineering, Monotheism
Russia 3 Feudalism, Engineering
Germany 5 Monotheism, Engineering
Spain 29 Enginneering
Korea 169 Down Polytheism, Currency
Dutch 38

Turn 10 50AD:
Trades:
Japan 6 Down Currency
Greece 107 Feudalism, Engineering, Monotheism
Russia 3 Feudalism, Engineering
Germany 9 Monotheism, Engineering
Spain 32 Enginneering
Korea 0 Feudalism, Down Monarchy
Dutch 33

Notes:
Revolution over in 2
Hoping that Germany would maintain that monopoly on Monotheism for longer
Would have started another trade but no one has any money
Three settlers heading for that land to the north, lots of barbarians there though

 

[oopsy poopsy]

hey dl, how about the end of turn save for the rest of us?