Training game emphasizing trading - Emperor

Whomp said:
I presume we waiting on Rik's report? We better get him a city to keep him happy. ;) Also Bede will need a breather after Sid 7+1!! :eek:

We are still awaiting Rik's report. And yes I will need a breather, the battle continues. We're killing French tanks as fast as she makes 'em but not making much progress on taking and holdohn ground.
 
No rush I will be up in 2 others today. Great story and pics w/ 7+1 Bede (in more ways than one)
 
peacemonger said:
T4 1420
Crying uncle. We can get an alliance vs Russia and Electricity for 2648. Done.
We can also get it for Alliance + 148 gpt. 148 * 20 = 2960. 2960 - 2648 = 312. So if the peace deal with Greece is broken (not unlikely in such a violent game) in max 17 turns; we are cheaper with gpt payments.

peacemonger said:
William will give us Corporation, but not Fascism. He won?t embargo Russia but he will join the Alliance. Done.
excellent !

BTW have you noticed that Greece also already has Replaceable parts and refining ?

peacemonger said:
T6 1430
Spain now has RP, but not refining. Let?s see what possible monopoly on Refining costs. 3476 + 62gpt. We are essentially buying at research cost. I won?t steal because no way can we afford the war. Not too concerned about using the cash because we have no defensive units to speak of to upgrade, may as well build them, and can?t use cash to rush. We will rebuild treasury quickly at our +232gpt anyway. Spain will give us the RP we need for adequate defense but has no cash to spare. We take it.
For your information: if you'd bought Refining from Greece (for 256 gpt or 3491 gold + 62 gpt) and use dit to obtain Replaceable Parts from Spain; we would have had both techs now. Then using both to obtain Fasism + spices + 8 gpt + 5 gold from William.

Lux to 0%, causes then 4 cities to need a few specialists (1 city: tax to clown, 3 cities: laborer to scientist) instead of 30% gains us 226 gpt (nearly the amount we paid to Greece).

Rik's conclusion
Excellent 1420AD trade, except for the fact that paying with gpt works out better. Greece is furious with us and I don't think that will improve. That means they will break treaties and sneak attack us. By paying lump gold he won't loose gold by sneak attacking. By paying gpt he will loose (a lot of) gold.
You chose the wrong tech to buy in the 1430AD trade; thus missed out on a 3fer1 and a reduction in luxuries to 0%. If you'd checked with Greece first what his asking price was for Refining and Replaceable Parts you'd noticed that RP was cheaper than Refining. That means that there is a chance of using Refining to get RP from Spain. If Ref was cheaper than RP there was no chance to get RP for Ref without paying extra. And even if we couldn't get RP for Ref; we would surely be able to get it for some cash or gpt. I paid in total 22 gpt for 5 gold + RP + Ref + Fascism + Spices. That is cheap !!

Good first trade, still room for improvement in your 2nd trade. Always look for xfer1 's !!!
 
Sorry Rik, I think my logging just isn't very clear. I need to work on that. I did buy Refining from Greece and used it to pick up Replaceable Parts from Spain. (What I did not do was the next logical step, which was to sell to the Dutch.)
 
Thanks for the great analysis, Rik.

Will play late tonight or tomorrow.
 
Bede said:
Thanks for the great analysis, Rik.

Concur -- in particular the bit on the gpt value of picking up a lux from William in terms of cranking down the slider, and how that really needs to be incorporated in the overall price of the deal. Missed that entirely.

I'm taking a lot of lessons from all you guys in this SG, so thanks all around. :D
 
1450

A little intense citizen management gets our terrain in better shape and gets shields where needed and commerce where needed. In general towns on the coast should be fishing and towns in the interior mining.

The critical numbers to look for when building military are 30 (infantry), 40 (cavs and arty), and 45 (infantry). Wonders (small or large take 50). Any town that can't do those numbers with a factory and power plant should have its barracks sold and concentrate on commercial improvements.

Notes on cops and engineers: When a town is long food for its population consider the use of cops, tax collectors and engineers. If a town has a factory, use a cop. If a town has a commercial improvement, use a cop. In some cases you can get better income and productivity using a combination of cops and tax collectors. Engineers are only useful in towns that have the income to support building maintenance but lack shields (coastal towns are a good example). Using an engineer for a building that a town can't pay for is not good resource use. Better to use tax collectors.

There are resource trades out there, as well as luxuries. We have a monopoly on critical resources and can use them to get luxuries from both Spain and the Dutch.

Alexander wants way too much for his Dyes: he opens with a demand for ivory, horses 159g and 20gpt. I think I will save all of those for a discount on our next purchase from him.

William wants Refining for Spices, or 61gpt or ivory, horses, coal and 5gpt. I'd rather keep the technology for a later knowledge deal, so I ship him the luxuries and resources.

Isabella will ship wines, silks and 18g for Iron and Coal. The problem now becomes, am I going to attack Russia? I think not as we certainly don't have the military to fight Spain and Russia. We face a risk if Vladivsotok flips away so I give to Isabella.

All this puts 250gpt back to the treasury with lux at zero and no threats on growth.

Now if In'Chon will hold.

1455
Spain and Greece both learn Scientific Method but no one has announced the ToE yet :hmm: Set Leptis to building the Military Academy for a jump on ToE when we steal SciMeth in 3 or 4.

1460
Spain has Espionage, Alex does not.

1465
Time to see if any bargains can be made with the Spanish:

I can get Espionage and all Isabella's maps for for ivory, incense, a WM and 50gpt.

And then get Scientific Method from Alex for Ivory, Incense, Espionage and 79gpt.

Swap Leptis to ToE due in 10; only place it is now being built is Novgorod and swap Nora to the SPHQ.

Isabella's MPP with Russia has expired so join her in against Catherine for 21gpt.

The time has come to remove the Japanese from the island. We won't be able to finish them off as they have a little town on the Dutch peninsula...but Will will be glad to help I'm sure.

First step is cancel the RoP and sell him a WM for his treasury. Then sign an RoP with Alex so we can get to New Rusicade. And Toku then signs his own death warrant by allying with Spain against the Netherlands.

1470
Declare on the Japanese.

New Rusicade is ours with no casualties.

Attack on Tokyo produces Hasdrubal who hustles off to Carthage to finish the Smersh HQ.

TT01_1470_00.jpg


That was a short war but Toku doesn't want to talk.

It turns out that Rusuccuru is full of Japanese citizens who promptly riot....where did they come from?

Plant a spy in Moscow and Athens but fail in Madrid. Isabella was not pleased.

Investigate Novgorod. ToE due in 31.

TT01_1470_01.jpg


Spain and Greece sign a peace treaty.

Russia wants peace, Hah! Give me Rostov.

1475
Russia sails her fleet out of Rostov

Hit it with shell fire from shore batteries.

News flash

TT01_1475_01.jpg


1475-1490
Setting up a shuttle between Greece and home island and preparing an invasion of Russia.

1495

TT01_1495_00.jpg



1500
Failed again to put a spy into the Spanish Court and the House of Orange. Wait till 1520 and try again.

Shuttle to Greece runs between Zouchis and In'chon. There is an invasion fleet wating for two more galleons in Kagoshima.

I think things are pretty well tuned up. The worker force is ganged in various places waiting for pollution to show up.

Leptis Magna (will finish ToE in 1510), Cirta, Theveste, Carthage, and Nora can build Infantry in 2 turns. Rusuccuru and Oea can build cavalry or artillery in 2. Utica, Russadir, Thanae, Malacca, and Carthago Nova can do Infantry in three. I put coal plants everywhere there are factories.

All our artillery and obsoletes have been upgraded, excpet for a lonely horse on the little peninsula.

Carthage is building the Military Academy to have some shields in the bin for Hoover Dam when ToE finishes in 2 turns.

It has become a three horse race with with Russia getting some run money and Will is the Also-ran. Greece has all the momney in the world but surprisingly little military (65 infantry and a single cavalryman and a couple of artillery tubes, a lot of boats however).

Would you guys like to look at the saves I sent to RiK? Let me know and I'll attach them.

I think it's over to Whomp for some Russia whompin'.
 
Pretty much yeah and I got it. ToE and Hoover's are huge. Bede you've left me with no other choice but to break out Super Jack Whomp and to pound on Catherines droopy left eye. She is running 1 lux, 20% lux tax and a democracy. There is a possibility she may need to revolt.

I see my critical few objectives consisting of...
1. Catherine's left eye.
2. Keep the economy rolling.
3. Quality steals after ToE?
4. Any others?

And a few things for discussion....
Was Novogard investigated for the invasion force?
I would presume it would be best to raze the city being so close to the capital.

Most of the difficult work is finished. Do we have any domestic workers that can be added to cities especially with Hoover's coming?

Seeing the satelite view of the world it looks like there is some open land in the old Korea. Should any of this be settled?

As a secondary goal am I to set up the next player for an invasion of Greece?
 
bede said:
1450 AD
William wants Refining for Spices, or 61gpt or ivory, horses, coal and 5gpt. I'd rather keep the technology for a later knowledge deal, so I ship him the luxuries and resources.
In my game William also wants Incense, besides the already mentioned Coal + Horses + Ivory + 5gpt.
The question is: what is better; paying Refining or paying Coal + Horses + Ivory + Incense + 5gpt?
The problem with selling Refining is that if William breaks the deal, he will not loose anything as he already has Refining, while we loose Spices. 20-turn deals are best to obtain resources and luxuries.
That brings us to the next question: do we want spices for that price? Well.... yeah. We have leftover Ivory, horses etc that we can use in a good way now. And we need luxuries. Every 10% lux-slider reduction gains us about 80 gpt, so we are free to purchase luxuries for that amount. It is expensive; I'll give you that; but it is better to use spare resources than to not use them.

Bede said:
Isabella will ship wines, silks and 18g for Iron and Coal. The problem now becomes, am I going to attack Russia? I think not as we certainly don't have the military to fight Spain and Russia. We face a risk if Vladivsotok flips away so I give it to Isabella.
Iron + Coal = Railroads for Spain = higher commerce = more gold for her to pay to us. It will also mean more pressure on our allies Netherlands and Greece, but I don't care really. Let them fight it out, while we get their techs. Good deal.

Bede said:
Alexander wants way too much for his Dyes: he opens with a demand for ivory,
horses 159g and 20gpt. I think I will save all of those for a discount on
our next purchase from him.
Agreed. We don't need luxuries that badly. The cost Alex wants for it is higher than our gain in taxes.

Bede said:
1460
Spain has Espionage, Alex does not.

1465
Time to see if any bargains can be made with the Spanish:

I can get Espionage and all Isabella's maps for for ivory, incense, a WM and
50gpt.

And then get Scientific Method from Alex for Ivory, Incense, Espionage and
79gpt.
Bede bought a Monopoly tech with resources and gpt. This is smart as it ends in 20 turns; even less if war breaks out. We get the benefit (the tech) of the trade immediately and Spain only if she waits out her 20 turns. BTW I bought it for Ivory + Incense + 43 gpt. Bede wasted another 7 gpt.

Then turning to Alex to obtain the critical tech Sci Meth, again with 20turn deals + the newly bought Esp. I'm just not sure if ToE fits in this no sci game ...

Rik's conclusion
Solid trading by Bede. Using 20 turn deals to obtain luxuries which allow us to increase taxes is good.
The 2fer1 was also well spotted and well executed.

I'm not sure the ToE fits in this game. If it doesn't I suggest we change this wonder to something else. If it fits I suggest we pre-select Atomic Theory + Electronics so we can use those techs to obtain the top-branch of the techs. Be very careful in using these techs in trades. They will be at full monopoly prices to all, thus very very expensive. If you can't get at least 3 or 4 usefull techs (that excudes fascism & Ironclads) for them, don't trade them. And if you trade them, trade them to as many civs as reasonably possible to get the most out of them and not allowing a different nation to use our tech for trade.

It is best now to stop trading techs around till many have the top-branch techs, so we can get them all. Be on the lookout however for someone to research Atomic Theory; if they do our monopoly is broken and we need to trade (if possible) Atomic Theory around.
 
Rik Meleet said:
Bede wasted another 7 gpt.

Caught me again, playing the prodigal son. I do need to watch those pennies.


Rik Meleet said:
Rik's conclusion

I'm not sure the ToE fits in this game. If it doesn't I suggest we change this wonder to something else. If it fits I suggest we pre-select Atomic Theory + Electronics so we can use those techs to obtain the top-branch of the techs. Be very careful in using these techs in trades. They will be at full monopoly prices to all, thus very very expensive. If you can't get at least 3 or 4 usefull techs (that excudes fascism & Ironclads) for them, don't trade them. And if you trade them, trade them to as many civs as reasonably possible to get the most out of them and not allowing a different nation to use our tech for trade.

It is best now to stop trading techs around till many have the top-branch techs, so we can get them all. Be on the lookout however for someone to research Atomic Theory; if they do our monopoly is broken and we need to trade (if possible) Atomic Theory around.

I will argue that the ToE fits as we traded our way to it and it opens opportunities to trade our way to other knowledge. What does the rest of the team think?

Solid advice, Mr Rik, as always.

@Whomp, I did plug a lot of workers in where I could without jacking the unhappiness level. What surprised is when Rusuccru rioted and upon investigation I found a bunch of Nipponese citizens. What must have happened is that when I added workers to the town I didn't check the text box, I just looked at their suits. That is somethign to watch out for as workers produced from a captured city wear your clothes but still carry the former Nationality tag which can cause problems going forward as foreigners have a tendency to get unhappy during war-time or just for no real reason at all. Now that Japan is gone it's not an issue I think.

Have fun fixing Catherine's outlook on life. She could use it.
 
I see no reason why we wouldn' use ToE. Just because it is a tech wonder I don't think that should impact the decision to build it. I say kudos to Bede for pulling it off. My opinion. Now the 7 gpt....
 
ToE doesn't feel right to me.

Looked back at the first few pages trikos mentioned Great Lib as forbidden but didn't mention ToE at all so I guess its legal and it looks like its too late to stop it. Still doesn't feel right though.
 
I'm a little bit with dl. Can someone can offer a meaningful distinction between GLib and ToE?
 
lurker's comment: With the Great Library, you can just build up cash without researching or trading (there could still be some trading, but it would be greatly reduced) to get new technologies until education. ToE gives you two technologies. It shouldn't reduce trading.
 
Pre-turn: I went ahead with the ToE for I see it as quite different than GLib where you can sit and wait ToE was a one time shot. There were 2 positives and 1 negative so I played yesterday.

As far as the country goes Bede has left me with almost nothing to do. I survey the scene. We are at war with Cathy. I see she has become a facsist. Cathy has 34 inf., 8 frigates, 2 galleons and assorted nothings. My battle plan will be to cut off her offense (horses) and then eliminate her defense (rubber and oil). All are near Moscow.

To Greece there is a lot of open wilderness on the Greek continent. I see 2 open horses and…..what do we have here…oil!

oil_pic_1.JPG


There is an oilfield outside of the borders of Russian Ulsan and Greek Namp’o. I change Sulkis to a settler. I realize a placement near this oil will put border pressure on Alex but he has no oil. Without oil Alex will be in rough shape when we get motorized. I send an attachment of 2 cav, 2 guerilla, 6 arty, 2 inf. to take Ulsan.

IBT Dutch and Spain sign for peace. Greeks start Univ. Sufferage.
1. 1505 AD Oil? Snip the road.….and look at Ulsan. A little late to the party it seems.

oil2.JPG


While sending our invasion force I see 3 Russian frigates and a galleon. From my experience AI frigates won’t detach from a galleon. I drop off our first wave on the horses near Moscow.

IBT Greece and Russia make peace. THEN.....Greek inf. attacks our vet cav on a hill and cav wins.

greeks3.JPG



2. 1510 AD
ToE4.JPG

The ToE is finished and our sages learn Fascism (no choice) and I chose Atom Theory. That was a bummer but I think it’s because we have no research on and it may appease part of the team.

I say that surprise attack by the Greeks makes Alex a liar and a cheat….he can not be trusted. He broke many agreements with our people. This is not good. Call William and he agrees with us for 13 gpt and gives us some maps. Dial up Izzie and she agrees too for 15 gpt, she gives us maps and 13g in change. We have forces on the Greek continent split into 3 groups. New Rusicade, Inch’on and the “oil pillagers”. I check Alex’s battle forces. He has 14 cav, 65 inf., 16 frigates(yikes), 4 galleons and 6 rifles and 2 hoplites. We pound a Greek cav by our oil attachment then send in elite cav and eliminate and cover with a guerilla. Little damage 4/5.
Now to Cathy. Horses gone. Arty pounds the rubber. Gone. Roads into our battle group gone. Moscow will starve. I hurry a galleon so I can fortify against the Russian Armada headed that way. Our frigate bombs the Armada and takes 2 hps off a frigate.

IBT Russians counter and they lose 2 and we lose 2 inf but one of our inf. goes elite. The armada moves. We lose a guerilla protecting our elite cav near the oil. A pile of Greek cav show up at our doorstep. They attack at Inch’on and they lose 2 cav.
3. 1515Bomb both Russian inf. Go 2 for 2 and redline both. Vet cav redlines but wins, elite cav goes 4/5. Send home inf elite and cav elite to get healthy for onslaught at Rostov. Bomb Russian armada again and take 2 more hps. Move some inf. over to our island to cover. Moving to “oil pillagers”. Moving forward see a cav. Bomb it twice. Elite cav 4/5 and kills. Guerilla covers. Battle of Inch’on it’s our cav vs. theirs-- 1st goes 2/4 and wins, 2nd loses Greek cav 2/4, 3rd vet goes 2/4 avenging the other’s loss, guerilla goes 4/4 killing redliner. The Battle of New Rusicade…vet cav goes ¼ and wins, guerilla loses without taking any hps of their cav, inf. takes out 2/4 cav without a scratch. The Greeks have 4 cav now.

IBT I wish I thought to make a picture because it was a beautiful sight. Out of the fog I see an orange flag….it’s William! William’s first frigate redlines and knocks out Cathy’s 1st frigate, 2nd sinks 2/4 frigate, 3rd pounds other 2/4 frigate and I think promoted and a fourth comes in and galleon is bye bye and Cathy’s Armada is gone. Greek fleet surrounds and pound Inch’on. Inf kill 2 cav and a guerilla in the melee. 7 more inf. appear near Inch’on.
4. 1520 AD We complete Wall Street with Hoover’s pre-build. Decide to wait a turn before another pre-build since we are the only with AT. We now have an agent in Madrid. Izzie has 9 cav, 31 inf., 7 rifles but only 2 frigates and 2 galleons….she’s not gonna be much help vs. the Greeks. Send out the galleon from Inch’on now that the blockade is out of the way. Rush a frigate at Zouchis to see if we can get some type of escort for our forces. Move Russian battle group towards Rostov. We will need to establish some type of toehold.

IBT All’s quiet on Cathy’s front. Bad news all around Greece. We lose a guerilla with “oil pillagers”. Our galleon sinks a frigate but is sunk by another. Guerilla and Elite Cav killed at Wonsan. But kill a cav at New Rusicade. Looking pretty thin in Greek lands.
5. 1525 Our horses a temporarily cut off from blockade at Inch’on. Make a note that horses to William come up in 5. We may need them. Continue slogging to Rostov. Reinforcements coming in. Zouchis sends reinforcements with a frigate escort. Bomb two Greek Inf. at Inch’on to 2 hps. Cavs go ¼ and 2/4 and elminate them.

IBT Frigate attacked…sinks, galleon attacked….sinks. Not even close. Greek Inf. attacks Inch’on and loses. New Rusicade defends vs Inf. and wins.

6. 1530 AD Start Pre-build for Hoovers at Cathage with Mil Acad. Bomb Rostov. 2 inf. and 4 arty left with “oil pillagers. No one gets too close as they bomb them down. Move some galleons south for Greece. Hunker down on Greek continent.

IBT Iron pillaged by Inch’on. Our cultural borders expand on Greek continent.
7. 1535 AD “Oil pillagers” bomb away at inf. and guerilla. They aren’t coming here. Try to hit rails in the area. 0 for 2. Bomb Rostov. They have 3 inf. We yellow line 2 and redline another. This city is on a hill so I dial up HQ and request more arty and a settler.

IBT Ships move out of Inch’on as 3 frigs escort a galleon. A massive assault hits New Rusicade. We kill 3 inf. and a cav. One of our inf. goes elite but the other dies. We have a problem as 12 more are on the way.
8. 1540 AD Decide it is best to abandon New Rusicade. The odds are stacked against us there. I sell the temple 15g and rax for 10g. We will return. Send out the elite who is met by another inf. and 2 guerillas from Inch’on. Bomb an Greek elite inf. to 2 hps and eliminate as our vet cav promotes. Rostov bombed with almost no damage. Send home the spotter to get glasses and call in a new one. See that Cathy does have oil now. I’m not sure if it just popped up but Yaktusk has oil underneath on another island. Well I think it’s time for a trade. Izzie is willing to give us 232g, 51 gpt and maps for our rubber. Done and done. Both rubber sources are on our continent.

IBT Kill 2 suicide Russian guerillas that don’t even dent our inf. Our Elite inf and that attachment are cornered by 13 inf.
9. 1545 AD More arty is ready at Rostov. Send home this spotter as he goes 0 for 4. The new one at least goes 6 for 10 and all inf. are redlined in Rostov. 1st cav loses, 2nd cav wins ¾, 3rd redlines stays and wins, elite finishes and goes 4/5. We take Rostov and 166g. I decide to keep it for the time being and see the flip chances. Moscow is at pop 9. They’re next. Hunker down in Inch’on. Bomb everything in sight with “oil pillagers”. 3 galleons and a frigate are getting ready. Another frigate is coming from Utica. I notice that Alex’s democracy is in shambles as the country is in anarchy.

IBT Russian frigate attacks one of our galleon shuttle and the frigate sinks. That’s 4 frigates down for her.

10 1550 AD The flip risk is too great at almost 18% at Rostov. Sell off all the improvements and abandon the city. There are two settlers there ready to settle. Move towards Moscow. Hunkered in at Inch’on. Bomb away with “oil pillagers”

Summary
We should cancel the horses, ivory, incense, coal and 5gpt for spices with William. We can likely negotiate a better deal. We can also cancel William’s MA vs. Cathy anytime. I would be inclined to do so because we don’t need the help. William needs to focus on Alex. I believe William also needs iron so I think we can get the spices back easy.

The wines/silks for iron/coal is up with Izzie. I would say we may want to keep the luxs. Our income is around 700 gpt. We can get ironclads from Izzie for 69gpt. Maybe we can structure another deal around the iron and/coal deal. Her MA vs. Cathy is due in 3.

Cathy is willing to give 440g. I would prefer to get her oil city but don’t think we should stop.
Russian_Front.JPG





I think we should consider taking our navy south (there’s another frigate from Utica on the way) and grab the oil. If we control the oil supply this thing is all but over. Izzie has none to spare, Alex has none, Cathy has 2 but one is disconnected. I forgot to check William as he still has learned refining but he should be checked as well. Being the only with motorized transport would be huge.

2nd_front.JPG


I also have that force on Alex’s coal to pillage and we should see if he has more coal. We need a navy as you see with the satelite shot...Greece is an issue again.

Navy.JPG


Saves are for 1540 rubber trade and 1550 save.
Let's discuss....
 
2. 1510 AD
The ToE is finished and our sages learn Fascism (no choice) and I chose Atom Theory. That was a bummer but I think it?s because we have no research on and it may appease part of the team.
See the bold text; work for the trainers. You absolutely have a 100% choice in what techs the ToE gives.
 
How? Is it because research was set to fascism and that's what is given first?
 
Back
Top Bottom