Training game emphasizing trading - Emperor

[peacemonger]

eek -- offline for 24 hours and all this. i happen to really really suck at dotmaps, so it will take a while to digest and frankly may not happen til friday given my work sched this week. (if that means you must put me later in the roster i will undertsand). i do need to learn the rigor behind this part of planning though.

we definitely need to vet the timing issue re resettling poorly placed cities. pros and cons of doing it now versus waiting? in general, there's the larger issue of settling priorities -- in what order should our ultimately selected dotmap be settled?

 

[Bede]

@o-p,

Could I ask your assistance in learning how to use layers in ps?

I just never seem to get it right, get seriously frustrated and throw the whole thing out.

Maybe an off-line converstion sometime.

 

[oopsy poopsy]

anytime bede. Once you figure it out it's easy. Only thing is, which version of photoshop are you using. I've got 7.0 and cs(8.0) on my home computer (never uninstalled the old) and cs running at work, but I can get any version up and running in probably 24hrs and I can't remember how much the interface has changed from the older versions. Let me know when, where, and how and we're good to go. Other good thing and I forgot to do it as well, is resizing the screen prints so there's no horizontal scroll; the bane of every web user.
On the subject of the towns I'd build around them and just use them for settlers and workers, don't worry about wasting shields or food, and as soon as expansion is finished we'll abandon them. We'll keep them from stealing from their neighbors so as not to impede their normal growth. If that takes some MM it's worth it to avoid wasting two settlers this early.

 

[Bede]

anytime bede. Once you figure it out it's easy. Only thing is, which version of photoshop are you using.

Oops. When you wrote "ps" I thought you meant Pain(t)Shop, not Photoshop.

Thanks for the offer, though.

On the two towns, just set the one citizen in Rusicade to tax collection and the queue to wealth. Leptis Minor does have to go, though, so pull a settler out of Utica before setting it to its worker farming duties. We'll get a worker and to road the iron and won't use up a settler out of Carthage for the deal.

 

[trikos]

With no FP what kind of corruption are we looking at for the orange dot. I never know how to plan for corruption.

Assuming I got the formulas right, the orange spot will have around 60-70 percent of corruption at the outset. If we become a republic and build a courthouse it will be 30-40 percent (depending on the number of cities closer to the capital than the orange spot).

In C3C corruption consists of distance corruption and rank corruption. Distance corruption depends on distance from the closest palace (the capital or FP). Rank corruption depends on how many cities that are closer to the capital. See http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=76619 for more info

 

[peacemonger]

Thought rank corruption was a vanilla concept, not C3C? I've never got the hang of the C3C formula.

 

[trikos]

C3C also have rank corruption, but it ranks the cities with the same distance to the capital by age and then by it's placement in the database. Concequently you can't make "the ring placement"-hack you could in vanilla.

 

[oopsy poopsy]

I will defer to bede's since I don't really have super good reasons for my different choices, just how I would do it if I was playing by myself, which probably isn't a rousing endorsement. Anyway, ultimately whoever's playing next probably gets the final say, but let us know what you're planning so we can evaluate your turn after. If peacemonger can't play 'til friday and whoever's next wants to go, I don't see why peacemonger can't be dropped down a spot, but I can wait until saturday for the next turn, either way works.
In terms of corruption, I looked over the thread and I'm not super clear on it. For instance in distance corruption, what are the initial d calculations. Take our power spot bede showed. It is exactly 7 directly east of us that is 7 moves along each axis (SE/NW and NE/SW) what is the max(x,y) and min(x,y) value of this? I'm probably being stupid but so be it.
@bede: sorry about the mixup. I'd never heard of paintshop before so I didn't know there was a chance for confusion. Anyway, since most graphics programs have bitten photoshop's interface to some degree I'll offer some general advice. You obviously already know how to create a new layer or you wouldn't be having problems. First, you want to think of your picture as it's own layer. Don't make any changes directly on the picture. Make sure after creating a layer, that it is selected, meaning the changes you make or the things you draw are being drawn in the new layer. The biggest key is knowing how to move between layers. In photoshop there is a little box you can open that lists all your layers. This way you just click on a layer, then click on a tool and away you go. Where a dotmap is concerned, the best way is to make a layer that has one dot and the square for the border. Then save the whole project and just duplicate the layer and move the duplicate into a new position. That way you won't have to draw the same squares and dots over and over again. I'm sorry if this is no help at all, I'm just assuming that paintshop has borrowed from photoshop so that they'll be kinda similar. The only other thing that you may have to pay attention to is that the new layer you're making is above the photo layer. Otherwise you're still making things there just hidden by the photo and it's confusing. In photoshop you need to go to the layers box and drag the layer above the other layer to make it show on top in the file. Or you could always switch to photoshop.lol.

 

[trikos]

@oopsy poopsy: I would be up then, but it is too late for me to play today and I can't play tomorrow.

@dl123654: feel free to play the next 10 turns (if you can concentrate after your finals )

 

[peacemonger]

Is our priority (after moving LMinor and sentencing Rusica to starvation) to grab land east toward the choke, or north to stem competition from that direction?

 

[oopsy poopsy]

I would move towards the choke since japan seems to be coming straight down and that's a spot worth grabbing. I'd really like to control where towns are in the east, whereas the center spine can be settled any number of ways. That being said I want them both, but I'd settle east a bit first.

 

[Bede]

Concur with o-p that the settlement priority is the eastern spine. The center is less productive and protected by the jungle/mountain terrain. In fact sending the next settlement team directly to the choke may be the best move.

 

[Rik Meleet]

That was on my mind as soon as I saw the chokepoint and our location compared to the Japanese location. Block them off in the north, so the Northwest and the East are ours.
We are lucky with this map with so much room to expand; more than we are entitled to. We should use it.

But then again; I'm only the trade-examinator.

 

[Bede]

This does look like an excellent situation for the stretch out and backfill tactic. I am not a big fan of that one normally but with all that open space it will work well for us.

 

[dl123654]

If the save is the 1475BC game then I've got it, if not feel free to correct me. Will play tomorrow morning before I leave to go home.

 

[Jurimax]

Yeah, that's the save dl, and good luck on your turns (not that you'd need it )

Greetz Jurimax

 

[dl123654]

The Save

My Trading Year

Preturn 1475BC:
Japan 25 HBR
Russia 178 HBR
Germany 1 HBR
Spain 214 HBR
Netherlands 0 Down Mysticism

No trades

Everything else fine

IBT:
Palace expansion

Turn 1 1450BC:
Eastern Curragh finds coast
Japan 50 HBR
Russia 181 HBR
Germany 2 HBR
Spain 149 HBR, Writing
Netherlands 66 HBR, Writing

Dutch got Writing and traded it to Spain for ~66, HBR and Mysticism

Turn 2 1425BC:
Nothing

Japan 75 HBR
Russia 184 HBR
Germany 2 HBR
Spain 84 HBR, Writing
Netherlands 66 HBR, Writing

Turn 3 1400BC:
Leptis Magna Archer->Settler
Theveste Warrior->Barrack

Japan 75 HBR
Russia 187 HBR
Germany 2 HBR
Spain 85 HBR, Writing, Math
Netherlands 66 HBR, Writing

Decide to wait

Turn 4 1375BC:
Utica Barrack->Settler
Found Oea on Tobacco, pops barbarians, cleaned up that turn

Japan 75 HBR
Russia 190 HBR
Germany 3 HBR
Spain 86 HBR, Writing, Math
Netherlands 66 HBR, Writing

Turn 5 1350BC:
Leptis Minor Warrior->Archer
Russia building Oracle

Japan 75 HBR
Russia 193 HBR
Germany 4 HBR
Spain 86 HBR, Writing, Math
Netherlands 66 HBR, Writing

Trade Netherlands 244gold for Writing
Germany won't trade HBR for Writing
Russia will trade everything for Writing
Japan will trade 14gold and HBR for Writing

Trade with Japan
Russia will still offer all gold, make the trade

Result: HBR and Writing for 37gold

Japan 61
Russia 0
Germany 4
Spain 86 Math
Netherlands 310

Math costs 529, Netherlands will buy it nexturn and make it cheaper

Turn 6 1325BC:
Carthage Settler->Settler
See that Rusicade will disband next turn, change it to a settler so it will disband and build a settler to replace the city

Japan 65
Russia 3
Germany 220 Math
Spain 45 Math
Netherlands 55 Math

Germany must have found, got Math and sold it the Dutch
Math costs 237 now

Turn 7 1300BC:
Nothing

Japan 61
Russia 5
Germany 179 Math
Spain 45 Math
Netherlands 55 Math

Turn 8 1275BC:
Leptis Magna Settler->Settler

Japan 61
Russia 7
Germany 177 Math
Spain 45 Math
Netherlands 80 Math

IBT:
Elite archer sees two Japan warriors heading towards us

Turn 9 1250BC:
Killed barbarian camp before Japan can

Japan 61
Russia 9
Germany 175 Math
Spain 45 Math
Netherlands 80 Math

Turn 10 1225BC:
Utica Settler->Warrior
Hippo Worker->Barrack
Block off the two goody huts with elite archer
Find Greece, make contact next turn

Japan 61
Russia 11
Germany 173 Math
Spain 45 Math
Netherlands 80 Math

Notes:
A curragh is about to find Greece
Math is out there for 237 gold
Decided to use writing to catch up in techs, didn't think I would get enough for math
Two Japanese warriors are around the archers
Sent two settlers north (want the incence), and two settlers went east (one settled and one is rdy to settle next turn)

 

[Rik Meleet]

Have you got the save of just before the trade ??? If so; please upload and I'll analyse. My gut-feeling says that your trades weren't perfect and I'd like to check that myself.

 

[trikos]

@dl123654: thanks for posting all the trading numbers. I have to look a bit more into them.

I have noticed one thing from the 1350AD save:

Spain and the Netherlands have writing. Is that the explanation of the lower selling price of HBR?

 

[Bede]

@Rik, The trading round pre-turn is the second line of the post.

@trikos, interesting question.