Jurimax
Duke of Flanders
Please skip me,
I'll have to let this one go, sorry team.
I'll continue to lurk though.
Greetz Jurimax
I'll have to let this one go, sorry team.
I'll continue to lurk though.
Greetz Jurimax
Training game emphasizing trading - Emperor
- Thread starter trikos
- Start date
oopsy poopsy
Warlord
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2004
- Messages
- 202
my guess is then that without being able to predict the pace for a wonder, we will mostly do without. I have slowly been weening myself off a serious wonder addiction so that prospect doesn't bother me too much. The scary thing about Smith's is that it's at the end of a lot of good wonders and if you hit a cascade we could be left with exactly what you said: a 500 shield overrun. You said you pretty much need a 20spt ancient age city and it only gets worse in the middle ages; what would you guess we would need for said city? 25spt? 30spt? To be honest I don't even know what would be really good. Usually by this time the mm takes so much time I start disregarding it and because of it I don't pay a lot of attention to exactly how many shields I'm producting in each town.
EDIT: sorry, didn't see the skip. This is my got it but I probably won't be able to play until tommorrow night.
EDIT: sorry, didn't see the skip. This is my got it but I probably won't be able to play until tommorrow night.
Never say die,say I.
If we monitor the tech pace closely, and try to keep a handle on what AI are researching what, it is possible to come close to get a building you really want. You can influence the AI research pace and make it possible for rivals to research faster or slower and make it feasible for them to buy enabling knowledge from you and others.
I have never been much good at managing cascades, though.
Finally, keeping a close eye on shield counts, avoiding waste especially, is most important, as it is one way of overcoming the AI production discount. If you can swap fields between towns it is possible to get 2, or even three, buildings or units done in 4 or 5 turns instead of just one or two in three or four.
If we monitor the tech pace closely, and try to keep a handle on what AI are researching what, it is possible to come close to get a building you really want. You can influence the AI research pace and make it possible for rivals to research faster or slower and make it feasible for them to buy enabling knowledge from you and others.
I have never been much good at managing cascades, though.
Finally, keeping a close eye on shield counts, avoiding waste especially, is most important, as it is one way of overcoming the AI production discount. If you can swap fields between towns it is possible to get 2, or even three, buildings or units done in 4 or 5 turns instead of just one or two in three or four.
oopsy poopsy
Warlord
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2004
- Messages
- 202
I didn't have a chance to play tonight, I just got home. I promise I'll play tommorrow as soon as I get back (it's a little over the 48hr window). Sorry.
plarq
Crazy forever
I'll have internet access difficulty through Jan.14th-Jan.20th
trikos
Chieftain
I am back and ready for playing. I will read through the last 30-35 messages today or tomorrow.
oopsy poopsy
Warlord
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2004
- Messages
- 202
THE SAVE
ok I'm done. Fairly uneventful turns. I built some marketplaces in the core, but didn't alter any builds so not a lot to do. I think we can probably stop using utica as a worker factory as they're are plenty to go around at this point. The western coast is settled according to the dotmap and I have a settler and a Med. Inf. on a galley about to leave our coast and find a habitable spot if there is any. On turn six chivalry became available from greece for ivory and 1650g. The only other tech is invention (greece and spain), I'm worried about them opening up higher level techs and us not being able to see them, but there was no way to recoup most of the money so I didn't do the trade. Since, they're not trading the techs with others, the only one who could have any extra techs is spain (since greece got chivalry 3 turns ago) so I'm not as concerned about falling behind. I'm gonna post the first year that chivalry became available for Rik and my end of turn right here:
turn 6: chivalry trade
I didn't play turn 10 (350ad) since we just finished a deal with spain for silks and thought it's a good time to look at the trades and see what we want to do. Also, greece started building the knights templar as soon as they got chivalry. I was also a little hesitant to make chivalry cheaper since that will give japan their uu (the deadly samuraii) and we need to be sure we're scary enough to make them stay away. Sorry if this post is a little scatter-brained and all over the place. I kept a log but it was so boring that I just wrote it down in the order that I remembered it so it's not in any discernible order.
ok I'm done. Fairly uneventful turns. I built some marketplaces in the core, but didn't alter any builds so not a lot to do. I think we can probably stop using utica as a worker factory as they're are plenty to go around at this point. The western coast is settled according to the dotmap and I have a settler and a Med. Inf. on a galley about to leave our coast and find a habitable spot if there is any. On turn six chivalry became available from greece for ivory and 1650g. The only other tech is invention (greece and spain), I'm worried about them opening up higher level techs and us not being able to see them, but there was no way to recoup most of the money so I didn't do the trade. Since, they're not trading the techs with others, the only one who could have any extra techs is spain (since greece got chivalry 3 turns ago) so I'm not as concerned about falling behind. I'm gonna post the first year that chivalry became available for Rik and my end of turn right here:
turn 6: chivalry trade
I didn't play turn 10 (350ad) since we just finished a deal with spain for silks and thought it's a good time to look at the trades and see what we want to do. Also, greece started building the knights templar as soon as they got chivalry. I was also a little hesitant to make chivalry cheaper since that will give japan their uu (the deadly samuraii) and we need to be sure we're scary enough to make them stay away. Sorry if this post is a little scatter-brained and all over the place. I kept a log but it was so boring that I just wrote it down in the order that I remembered it so it's not in any discernible order.
trikos
Chieftain
Hi
My computer just broke down, so I can't play right now. I don't know what caused my computer to break down (I can't acces the files through epxlorer), so it might take a while. I hope my computer is back in shape within a few days, but please skip me for this turn (I should probably skip myself).
Here is the roster:
bede - UP
trikos - on deck (I am an optimist
)
plarq
dl123654
peacemonger
oopsy poopsy
jurimax - resigned
My computer just broke down, so I can't play right now. I don't know what caused my computer to break down (I can't acces the files through epxlorer), so it might take a while. I hope my computer is back in shape within a few days, but please skip me for this turn (I should probably skip myself).
Here is the roster:
bede - UP
trikos - on deck (I am an optimist
)plarq
dl123654
peacemonger
oopsy poopsy
jurimax - resigned
plarq
Crazy forever
Ok,I'll play after Bede or trikos,I'm back in civ world due to a canceled visit.
trikos
Chieftain
@Plarq, you can pick up the game now if you want to. Just post that you do it.
plarq
Crazy forever
I'll wait for Bede's reply.
And please wait for my analysis of O-P's trade.
oopsy poopsy
Warlord
- Joined
- Nov 3, 2004
- Messages
- 202
i didn't actually make a trade rik. I posted the trade possibility and in my judgment it wasn't the right time to trade. i wanted to leave this open for discussion so i posted the save when it first became available. also, since the deal with spain just ended, right now may be a good time for trading, but wait for rik so we can discuss. also, in general i wasn't sure about where we were headed so we might need to have a plan outline for the next players. i think we've finished the expansion phase and this is usually where i start stagnating so i'm not really sure what the best course of action is.
I checked. It is indeed not a good moment to trade. The asking price for Chivalry is huge, with hardly any compensation. With Chialry we'll still be paying extra for Invention. 2000 gold isn't worth Chiv + Inv + Lit.
I did spot a Mono for Lit trade with Korea. This is a nice trade, but not excellent. We don't need lit. And Japan still lacks Mono and Feud and Engineering. If they ever get lit we'll be able to trade for it (if we want).
If there aren't good xfer1's and we aren't falling behind it is better to wait till more civs have the techs, so the price drops. This is a case of just buying and I prefer to do that at the lowest possible cost.
What we are really waiting for is a civ to research Theology and lacking Invention or Chivalrt. And we want the civs to gather more Gold. Greece is the "richest" with 19 gold. With those amounts there is no chance to do a "money back", espeially since there aren't 2 civs with techs that the other one lacks.
But don't be too patient; If we are threatened to fall behind we might need to pay to prevent that.
I did spot a Mono for Lit trade with Korea. This is a nice trade, but not excellent. We don't need lit. And Japan still lacks Mono and Feud and Engineering. If they ever get lit we'll be able to trade for it (if we want).
If there aren't good xfer1's and we aren't falling behind it is better to wait till more civs have the techs, so the price drops. This is a case of just buying and I prefer to do that at the lowest possible cost.
What we are really waiting for is a civ to research Theology and lacking Invention or Chivalrt. And we want the civs to gather more Gold. Greece is the "richest" with 19 gold. With those amounts there is no chance to do a "money back", espeially since there aren't 2 civs with techs that the other one lacks.
But don't be too patient; If we are threatened to fall behind we might need to pay to prevent that.
@plarq,
Take it away.
I'll pick up after you.
There is at least one more spot to settle in the west. Drop a settler and rush a harbor but don't let the town grow beyond 2 (one citizen and a tax collector). Same treatment for others unless there is a food bonus then it can grow to no more than six, half or one third of them tax collectors.
Change all military builds in towns without barracks to something else, anything else. We need culture in the east and north so those towns should have temples rushed.
Don't waste too many worker turns trying to pull shields out the north yet. Go for maximum food.
Looks like we need to start trading for luxuries, as we have a very discontented population. Or do we want to take them by warfare?
I haven't seen any discussion regarding building priorities so let me start one:
What buildings, where and why?
How do you determine what buildings go where?
I have my own prejudices, others will disagree with them. What is important is a plan.
Every plan needs a map so here's one suggesting where we stop over-improving the land and controlling populaiton growth.
South of the line we need all the population the land can support. North of it we should limit the population and make tax farms until we get to Steam Power and Nationalism.
The towns north of the line do not need barracks, acqueducts or even markets, though courthouses may be worth it. The border towns could use one barracks shared among three: CxxxCwithBarracksxxxC with the barracks town closest to potential enemies. Towns on the coast need harbors unless there is a food bonus handy. We need at least one and possibly two cultural buildings in the border towns but not in the interior burgs.
Other suggestions include things like worker actions: for example, instead of mining mountains we should be planting forests in some of the one shield grasslands at Theveste and irrigating the others. THe town is only doing 8spt net and should be at least ten and can be with the right distribution of forest, mined BG and irrigated grasslands. We also need to look for other similar opportunities in the core.
All items are open for discussion. So let's discuss.
Take it away.
I'll pick up after you.
There is at least one more spot to settle in the west. Drop a settler and rush a harbor but don't let the town grow beyond 2 (one citizen and a tax collector). Same treatment for others unless there is a food bonus then it can grow to no more than six, half or one third of them tax collectors.
Change all military builds in towns without barracks to something else, anything else. We need culture in the east and north so those towns should have temples rushed.
Don't waste too many worker turns trying to pull shields out the north yet. Go for maximum food.
Looks like we need to start trading for luxuries, as we have a very discontented population. Or do we want to take them by warfare?
I haven't seen any discussion regarding building priorities so let me start one:
What buildings, where and why?
How do you determine what buildings go where?
I have my own prejudices, others will disagree with them. What is important is a plan.
Every plan needs a map so here's one suggesting where we stop over-improving the land and controlling populaiton growth.
South of the line we need all the population the land can support. North of it we should limit the population and make tax farms until we get to Steam Power and Nationalism.
The towns north of the line do not need barracks, acqueducts or even markets, though courthouses may be worth it. The border towns could use one barracks shared among three: CxxxCwithBarracksxxxC with the barracks town closest to potential enemies. Towns on the coast need harbors unless there is a food bonus handy. We need at least one and possibly two cultural buildings in the border towns but not in the interior burgs.
Other suggestions include things like worker actions: for example, instead of mining mountains we should be planting forests in some of the one shield grasslands at Theveste and irrigating the others. THe town is only doing 8spt net and should be at least ten and can be with the right distribution of forest, mined BG and irrigated grasslands. We also need to look for other similar opportunities in the core.
All items are open for discussion. So let's discuss.
plarq
Crazy forever
@Bede
oints taken.Got it
oints taken.Got it
plarq
Crazy forever
Turn 0: Change northern towns to Court,Temple,Harbor and workers.Rush Aquaduct in Handrumetrum.I don't think we can trade until Astronomy,water is too dangerous,trade rout through Jpan,Russia,Spain until we reach Dutch and Greece.
IBT:Japan demand Iron...I should have pillage that,I know clearly he'll be stronger if he have iron,but we're weak against him...I don't think we can let him build MDI. ACav is nasty,but MDI and Samurai are tricky too.
IBT:Japan demand Iron...I should have pillage that,I know clearly he'll be stronger if he have iron,but we're weak against him...I don't think we can let him build MDI. ACav is nasty,but MDI and Samurai are tricky too.
The situation is good for warfare, I think.
Swap the two northernmost towns to Barracks and rush, then rush NuMercs everywhere we have barracks and shift them northwards.
Rush trebs in the next tier of towns in the north. The terrain is in our favor. We can post trebs and Mercs and horsemen in the north and jsut pick him off as he comes through.
Ally with Russia against Japan and let the two fight it our while we sit behind the jungle wall and be cool. No need to take the offensive.
Swap the two northernmost towns to Barracks and rush, then rush NuMercs everywhere we have barracks and shift them northwards.
Rush trebs in the next tier of towns in the north. The terrain is in our favor. We can post trebs and Mercs and horsemen in the north and jsut pick him off as he comes through.
Ally with Russia against Japan and let the two fight it our while we sit behind the jungle wall and be cool. No need to take the offensive.
plarq
Crazy forever
You can demand money,tech or lux,but iron is too dangerous for you to have,Toku,I've heard enough stories of Samurai.Ok,let the war start,I refuse.Archer,Acav and spear approach.At least we don't ship goods to anyone and don't break our reputation.
Turn 1: Rush wall on the front city.And...do we need a GA?Change some build in core,build some troops,I think.
IBT:MDI kill AC on defense.More troop arrives.
Turn 2: Rush Barracks in front.
IBT:Lose MDI and Horse,more AC appear.
Turn 3: Kill two ACs and Archers,Things are really bad
IBT:Lose 2 horses
Turn 4: Rush temple in front
IBT:No more casuality,War happiness still online.
Turn 5: Moving troops to front city.
IBT:Nothing
Turn 6: Still moving
IBT:Nothing
Turn 7: I need to complete some infra in core.
IBT:Nothing,kill an AC on defense.
Turn 8: Still building infra,we have enough troops,Japanese Galleys sail in eastern coast towards our land.
IBT:Nothing
Turn 9: Japan want to talk,Greece know Theology,another monopoly tech.
IBT: an AC popped his head near Rusguniae.
Turn 10: Change all building to infrastructure.
Summary:We need to trigger our GA before the end of war.The ACav near Rusguniae will attack that city,and a Numdian is waiting.And some of northern towns hang on war happiness,next player will fix that after the end of war.Greeks have two monopoly tech(Theology and Chivalry),still no sign of Musketman,do we need to investigate Athens?Sidenote:Otto is playing OCC,a warrior is waiting E of Nora to pillage the iron.The war is nasty and unnessesary.Another sidenote:Japanese galleys sail down east coast,pull some defense.
Turn 1: Rush wall on the front city.And...do we need a GA?Change some build in core,build some troops,I think.
IBT:MDI kill AC on defense.More troop arrives.
Turn 2: Rush Barracks in front.
IBT:Lose MDI and Horse,more AC appear.
Turn 3: Kill two ACs and Archers,Things are really bad
IBT:Lose 2 horses
Turn 4: Rush temple in front
IBT:No more casuality,War happiness still online.
Turn 5: Moving troops to front city.
IBT:Nothing
Turn 6: Still moving
IBT:Nothing
Turn 7: I need to complete some infra in core.
IBT:Nothing,kill an AC on defense.
Turn 8: Still building infra,we have enough troops,Japanese Galleys sail in eastern coast towards our land.
IBT:Nothing
Turn 9: Japan want to talk,Greece know Theology,another monopoly tech.
IBT: an AC popped his head near Rusguniae.
Turn 10: Change all building to infrastructure.
Summary:We need to trigger our GA before the end of war.The ACav near Rusguniae will attack that city,and a Numdian is waiting.And some of northern towns hang on war happiness,next player will fix that after the end of war.Greeks have two monopoly tech(Theology and Chivalry),still no sign of Musketman,do we need to investigate Athens?Sidenote:Otto is playing OCC,a warrior is waiting E of Nora to pillage the iron.The war is nasty and unnessesary.Another sidenote:Japanese galleys sail down east coast,pull some defense.
