Transport units, not a commander exclusivity?

[Lazy sweeper]

Civilization V-VII has completely neglected transport units.
Until 1UPT finally came to its natural boring end, as SOD should have never gave part, and gave Commander some transport unit ability.

But why limit it to commander only?
Couldn't Chariots be used for fast transport of two-three units also?
Couldn't galleys and cogs and Galleon also used as transport units on the high seas?
Especially now that the seas are treacherous again?

Water and Desert had always been a formidable barrier, as some might mountains ranges, but for the most part, mountains
had been the living ground for most important civilizations.

Etruskans settled on the highest peaks in the middle of Italy, as far high as possible and as far away from the water as possible...
Incas, Persians, Swiss, Austrians, Most of the Gaulic tribes of North Italy-France of the Neolithic stayed as high as possible and away from the Sea... all for obvious reasons... they remembered what came before...

It took thousands and thousands of years for civilizations to rebuild seafaring.
The Egyptian used flat barges to ship stones up and down the Nile.
The Romans stole that design and brought one or two obelisks all the way up to Rome.
What are barges if not transport ships?

Land or Sea we Civilization need transport units.
Also I would like to finally see the option to deny every single unit the ability to embark. Not even cross a navigable river or a flooded Castle ditch.

 

[vorlon_mi]

I liked the risk/reward decisions that came along with Civ3/Civ4 transport ships. Pack 5 units into a Civ3 transport, and you will want to make sure that it is escorted. Earlier in the game, you could put a settler and a defense unit in a Galley to go forth and expand your empire. Deciding about invading a neighbor included the capacity of your navy, how quickly you could deliver troops and/or reinforcements. This aspect was a fun part of those games. IIRC, Civ4 caravels were a special purpose ship for transporting certain non-military units, to enable diplomacy over longer distances.

In Civ7, unloading from a naval vessel would be similar to unpacking from a commander, mechanically. One would need open land hexes for the troops. Adding a transport ship unit would be a good addition to Civ7. I'm not sure that I want to go as far as removing embarkation.

Mountains -- In Civ3, they were navigable. One could build roads and even railroads on them; one could build mines because resources like Gems, Iron, or Coal were found on mountain tiles. I disliked that Civ4 made mountains impassable and unworkable... for the WHOLE. GAME. Similar for Civ5, except for one civ. Civ6 was a little better, giving Military Engineers (and one Civ) the ability to make tunnels. So far, Civ7 is not winning the mountain game. Yes, I can work mountain tiles in later ages, but they are still impassable. I really want them to fix that.

 

[Noble Zarkon]

I liked the risk/reward decisions that came along with Civ3/Civ4 transport ships. Pack 5 units into a Civ3 transport, and you will want to make sure that it is escorted. Earlier in the game, you could put a settler and a defense unit in a Galley to go forth and expand your empire. Deciding about invading a neighbor included the capacity of your navy, how quickly you could deliver troops and/or reinforcements. This aspect was a fun part of those games. IIRC, Civ4 caravels were a special purpose ship for transporting certain non-military units, to enable diplomacy over longer distances.

Indeed, one of the worst decisions they made to remove these.

 

[fantsu]

AI could not handle transports now. They cannot even handle embarking.

 

[Arcaian]

Water and Desert had always been a formidable barrier, as some might mountains ranges, but for the most part, mountains
had been the living ground for most important civilizations.

Etruskans settled on the highest peaks in the middle of Italy, as far high as possible and as far away from the water as possible...
Incas, Persians, Swiss, Austrians, Most of the Gaulic tribes of North Italy-France of the Neolithic stayed as high as possible and away from the Sea... all for obvious reasons... they remembered what came before...

It took thousands and thousands of years for civilizations to rebuild seafaring.

This is simply false. Until the invention of trains and railway lines, just about every single major settlement on the planet was on a waterway because it is unimaginably more efficient to transport goods via water than via land. Mountains are not the living ground for the most important civilizations, you just picked a bunch of people who happen to have lived in mountainous regions. If you're arguing mountains are the place where the most important civilizations came from because 'they remembered what came before', lets look at the cradles of civilization: China (the Yellow river was the lifeblood of the entire region, and by far the most important factor), the Indus River Valley (surprisingly, the Indus River was highly important), Mesopotamia (the Tigris and Euphrates were again the lifebloods of the regions, everything revolved around them), Egypt (the Nile was by far the most important aspect of their geographical location), the Andes (the very first starting point is the Caral peoples who built on the desert planes below the Andes, avoiding the mountains to instead settle alongside the rivers that allowed them to thrive), and Mesoamerica (where the Coatzacoalcos river basin was of upmost importance). Humanity has been using boats and seafaring for longer than we have cities, and before ~1800 CE, a city had to have water access to be relevant with very few exceptions. Even with your examples that are hand-picked to be mountainous, you're wrong for many of them - the Etruscans colonized Corsica and had significant naval technology, the Incas did start off in mountainous regions but quickly grew to have regions such as Lake Titicaca and the old Moche heartland that relied heavily on boats and fishing. As far back as the Achaemenids, Persia had a navy with tens of thousands of sailors who participated in massive naval battles.

 

[Askia Muhammad]

Civilization V-VII has completely neglected transport units.
Until 1UPT finally came to its natural boring end, as SOD should have never gave part, and gave Commander some transport unit ability.

But why limit it to commander only?
Couldn't Chariots be used for fast transport of two-three units also?
Couldn't galleys and cogs and Galleon also used as transport units on the high seas?
Especially now that the seas are treacherous again?

Water and Desert had always been a formidable barrier, as some might mountains ranges, but for the most part, mountains
had been the living ground for most important civilizations.

Etruskans settled on the highest peaks in the middle of Italy, as far high as possible and as far away from the water as possible...
Incas, Persians, Swiss, Austrians, Most of the Gaulic tribes of North Italy-France of the Neolithic stayed as high as possible and away from the Sea... all for obvious reasons... they remembered what came before...

It took thousands and thousands of years for civilizations to rebuild seafaring.
The Egyptian used flat barges to ship stones up and down the Nile.
The Romans stole that design and brought one or two obelisks all the way up to Rome.
What are barges if not transport ships?

Land or Sea we Civilization need transport units.
Also I would like to finally see the option to deny every single unit the ability to embark. Not even cross a navigable river or a flooded Castle ditch.

Call me crazy - I miss ships being required to transport units across water.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Transport ships were removed due to switch to 1UpT in Civ5. Now, Civ7 has commander mechanics with reinforcements which in theory allows moving units that way, but it raises question - how to transport land commanders?

 

[Lazy sweeper]

This is simply false. Until the invention of trains and railway lines, just about every single major settlement on the planet was on a waterway because it is unimaginably more efficient to transport goods via water than via land. Mountains are not the living ground for the most important civilizations, you just picked a bunch of people who happen to have lived in mountainous regions. If you're arguing mountains are the place where the most important civilizations came from because 'they remembered what came before', lets look at the cradles of civilization: China (the Yellow river was the lifeblood of the entire region, and by far the most important factor), the Indus River Valley (surprisingly, the Indus River was highly important), Mesopotamia (the Tigris and Euphrates were again the lifebloods of the regions, everything revolved around them), Egypt (the Nile was by far the most important aspect of their geographical location), the Andes (the very first starting point is the Caral peoples who built on the desert planes below the Andes, avoiding the mountains to instead settle alongside the rivers that allowed them to thrive), and Mesoamerica (where the Coatzacoalcos river basin was of upmost importance). Humanity has been using boats and seafaring for longer than we have cities, and before ~1800 CE, a city had to have water access to be relevant with very few exceptions. Even with your examples that are hand-picked to be mountainous, you're wrong for many of them - the Etruscans colonized Corsica and had significant naval technology, the Incas did start off in mountainous regions but quickly grew to have regions such as Lake Titicaca and the old Moche heartland that relied heavily on boats and fishing. As far back as the Achaemenids, Persia had a navy with tens of thousands of sailors who participated in massive naval battles.

You are stuck at 3500BC date for civilization do you??
You Do realise I am talking about 70.000 years old world as the beginning?
All the old tales speak of civilizations that came before, so did the Etruscans...
And The Bactrian Civ, where is now Uzbekistan, Kazakhstan... it was all river-sea connected as the old tales goes...
The History you're referring to is not false, nor is mine, mine can NOT be proofed...
that's the only difference, but I'm no liar as I re-telll the tales EXACTLY as I learned them.

For years the Seas has been more secure as the tales goes, and it was possible to island hopping all around the world...
then came the disaster, and for years the sea has been treacherous, maybe not all lost their abilities but many
bowed and had an archaic fear of the sea that before it didn't exist...

 

[Lazy sweeper]

Transport ships were removed due to switch to 1UpT in Civ5. Now, Civ7 has commander mechanics with reinforcements which in theory allows moving units that way, but it raises question - how to transport land commanders?

Another question...

Salute... it will take time to think for an appropriate answer...

 

[Arcaian]

The History you're referring to is not false, nor is mine, mine can NOT be proofed...
that's the only difference, but I'm no liar as I re-telll the tales EXACTLY as I learned them.

Point to even one reliable source. They don't exist, you're obviously and clearly wrong.

 

[Lazy sweeper]

Point to even one reliable source. They don't exist, you're obviously and clearly wrong.

That's science that tells us there has been a Green Sahara, there's the Argos ship in the Southern Emisphere, which is related to the Odysseus book...
My Source is Plato, no more, no less.
Now, as I told you, these sources can't be proofed, but indeed they do exist!!
How many books of Plato in ANCIENT GREEK has you personally read?
I've read FIVE of them.
Then there's PLINY THE ELDER in ancient LATIN.
8 Tomes, 300 pages each, TWO LOST BOOKS.
There's so many sources out there it would take me 10 lifetimes to get through them all...
Most FRENCH libraries are TREASURE COVE of public ancient books, NO INTERNET.
I spent YEARS reading these books.

What is wrong with challenging the dogmatic history you learnt?
Civilization up to IV had no religion in it, and it was PURR-FECT.
Zep-tepi is the Harmony Age I am talking about.
Plato, again.

But there's BEOWULF also to read in ancient norse...
If you do understand old NORSE you will find a lot of strange coincidences in that book...
Have you read it?

Remember, that even in ancient Rome, there were STATE SECRETS and CENSORS.... so writers could NOT write what they wanted, or they would've been killed...
We have many proofs of that in Italian University Research Teams going on, right now...
Amongst these secrets there were the stolen Carthaginian maps to the Americas... which the Romans DID NOT have before... but others did... BEFORE and AFTER...
Only bc the HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE Europe was forced into the DARK AGES...
And right there, you will find BEOWULF very revealing... if you can interpret the keys...

YOu have the sources my man, but you don't have the keys, and those I won't give you...

Never heard of Pico della Mirandola?

Giovanni Pico della Mirandola, count di Concordia | Renaissance Humanist, Philosopher & Theologian | Britannica

Giovanni Pico della Mirandola, count di Concordia was an Italian scholar and Platonist philosopher whose De hominis dignitate oratio (“Oration on the Dignity of Man”), a characteristic Renaissance work composed in 1486, reflected his syncretistic method of taking the best elements from other

www.britannica.com

It is, unfortunate, that if you do not speak Italian, you will never have a chance to understand the books he wrote...
Look at the date he died... 1493... sounds familiar???

He was the founder of the tradition of Christian Kabbalah, a key tenet of early modern Western esotericism. The 900 Theses was the first printed book to be universally banned by the Church...

Keys are not cheap...

Maybe you speak German? Here is an English translated (CC) presentation of a really interesting philosopher...

PS: Despite the talk, you can just look at the sales of Civ VII, and its wester, dogmatic, three age split, narrative driven disaster...
... you can't force down the throat of millions of players a version of History, nobody in the Modern world within the normal
gamers spectrum believes, sources or not... no one cares...
Civ VI introduced secret societies and heroes, or Mohenjo Daro city state... and it sold like pancakes... did they need any "proof"???
It's a GAME we are talking about...

All of this is about a game, not rewriting history...

Really, ask the devs these questions...

 

[Lazy sweeper]

AI could not handle transports now. They cannot even handle embarking.

Is water wet?