Travel Through Time

Yeah I definitely would like to get back into Civ making. It would be a lot easier now that I know Civ4 xml much better. Its almost been a year since I started modding...:eek:

Hows the list looking?

(On the Apache I don't know about another possible UU, they were excellent cavalrymen, that's pretty much all I know off the top of my head)

Actually, the Apache's best trait was gorilla warfare. The US Calvary had major headaches with them all throughout Arizona, Nevada, and New Mexico territories, especially in desert/scrub/canyon type terrains.

*Historical side note: The US Army officially requested from tribal elders that they train the Rangers during WW II for spec ops in the pacific. Then again for the Vietnam War.

My recommendation for UU would be Ghost Warriors. These were the elite warriors during Vittorio's time as War Chief. I'd give them Guerilla II, First Strike, and some type of move bonus in desert/scrub type terrain. These guys were the Billy Bad A$$ of spec warfare, and the US Cav usually wound up taking 60-80% casualties. The only other tribe that equals them in the Bad Assery category were the Cheyenne Spirit Lancers. Even the Sioux respected the Apache, which is a serious statement in tribal interactions.


Edit: Forgot to mention, equivalent unit type would be Calvary. One of the Ghost Warriors initiation rights was to steal from and/or kill a Blue Coat (US Cav) for his rifle, which was usually a repeating rifle of some type (Henry/Springfield/ or Winchester).
 
Heh, no kidding. While most props go to Geronimo, Vittorio was wicked smart and had an uncanny knack for guerilla warfare. Considering that the Apache's tribal lands were mostly desert/scrub anyway, tossing in that type of warfare pretty much came second nature to them. I still think I have copies of some old US Cav's Officers letters to home, that I used for my thesis. Some of the stories would make Wes Craven pout in jealousy.
 
Can you possibly supply a civilopedia entree for that unit then? Also is there an Apache name for it? I also enjoy it being more accurate using the names the apache could have possibly used, any ideas??

For Rapa Nui, I would definitely suggest the moai for the UB (dont have it coast) for monument, and simply have another National Wonder replace the Moai National Wonder.

LH: Hotu Matu'a

Drak any idea for the UU?
 
Probably not until sunday. Let me dig through my notes this weekend, and I'll post some info for you guys on Sunday.

edit; Big props to my 14yr old for saving my ass. Forgot that this Sunday was Mother's Day. It will be later in the week before I can post the relevant material, sorry gents.
 
@ Drak, never any rush

@ SOG, I can't seem to find any good Incan lunary symbols :confused: any idea?

Thx, appreciate it. SOG should have quite a bit if I remember correctly, as I gave him quite a bit of info if I recall. I'll see if I can post some relevant links later to assist. I'm having PC issues ATM, so accessing is a bit problematic as my laptop doesn't have any of the data.
 
Inca is np, easier than Chimor. Mama Quilla was the Moon Goddes, 3rd in overall power (also marriage, defender of woman, and a host of other stuff related to females :D), and had her own temple in Cuzco. Here ya go gents

https://www.google.com/search?q=mama+quilla+inca+goddess&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=zztwU9_CEMLuoAS8moDgBw&ved=0CCUQsAQ&biw=1366&bih=683

http://www.goddessaday.com/mayan/mama-quilla

That should get you started. There's quite a bit of info concerning her actually. Just google her name and check the university entries (you guys already know I hate Wiki for hard facts, lol), preferably those from central american universities. Quite interesting actually.
 
Nice.

I'll try to get to the Apache ASAP.
 
Gracias my friend

From there I would like to go through my native American civs in my big mod and have you tell me if they have the appropriate UU's UB's and LH's, if you don't mind

Sure thing, it'll be slow going though. Just as an interesting change, how about using Vittorio as the Apache leader instead of Geronimo. Would be an interesting change of pace.
 
I already have geronimo and Cochise, but I don't see a reason why I couldnt add victorio. In my mod I will have up to 6 leaders per civ, with the same system as cIV, where the greater the empire, the more leaders they have, so its not based on what art is available (since its all 2d lH). That way you arent playing 5 leaders for Canada and Mexico and 1 for the aztec
 
Ok, Here's the intel for the Apache based on my research links, as well as my personal notes and thoughts. Since I'm not exactly sure what type of format you want me to use, I'll just give you the links and my personal notes/opinions. The entry for Victorio (as well as other chiefs besides Geronimo) is of particular interest. Any question or thoughts. let me know :D.

So, off to see the Shaman, shall we :mischief:

Based on all my research, and pouring through copious amounts rank lists, the Apache ranks 6th (in between Roman Legionnaire and Samurai) in the past 500 years, and 24th of the greatest all time warriors in history (in between Gladiators and Vikings). That definitely raised my eyebrows to my hairline, as I knew they were impressive, just not how much.

The apaches were like the ninjas of America. They would sneak up behind you and slit your throat without you even knowing. They used primitive weapons made mostly of wood and bone, until the white man showed up in their lands, at which point they transitioned to metal. They were also the greatest knife fighters the world has ever seen and were pretty good with the tomahawk and throwing ax, again until the white man brought horses to their lands, at which point they started to transition to light cav. They terrorized the southwest United States and even the US Army had a great deal of trouble beating them, usually taking 60-80% casualties in the process. They were great hit and run fighters and their descendants teach modern day special warfare(SEAL's, Rangers, Green Beret's) fighters how to fight in hand to hand combat.

The Elite warriors of the Apache were called Chidn-Ozuye or Ghost Warriors, and according to which legend (no hard documentation exists in order to ascertain authenticity) you believe, they were initially created as a War Band under the direct supervision of Victorio (see my link to him later in this post). In addition to the all ready formidable skills inherent with the Apache, The Ghost Warriors took it several steps further and trained extensively in guerilla/Calvary warfare. Again, according to legend, in order to be accepted into the Ghost Warriors, a prospective candidate had to have survived at least 5 skirmishes (US Army or another tribe), had to have gone on a successful vision quest (by successful, I mean survive in the desert for at least 3 days with no food/water/weapons.. OUCH), taken at least ten scalps (ok, double OUCH), and have successfully stolen/taken a horse and rifle from a Blue Coat (or killed him and then taken, the more preferred method). Oh, Blue Coat is the derogatory term for a US Calvary man.

Links:

http://www.indians.org/articles/apache-indians.html

https://www.google.com/search?q=apache+warriors&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=FsJzU5OHNpa1yATeqYLIAw&sqi=2&ved=0CCUQsAQ&biw=1680&bih=955

http://www.greatdreams.com/apache/apache-warriors.htm

http://www.rb-training.com/apache-history.asp


Based on the above and off my research, the Apache were one of the greatest knife fighters in the world (indeed, in several of my readings, they were often called "The Ninja of America") and had an uncanny knack for camo/guerilla warfare. So, with that being said, this is my opinion for the Ghost Warrior UU, and my thoughts for a UB:

UU:

Chidn-Ozuye (Ghost Warrior)

Str: 7 (**)

MV: 2 (*)

Special: Guerilla II, First Strike II, suffers no terrain damage from desert.
*: only applies in desert/scrub/hills unless mounted.
**: 14 (gunpowder units)

UB: The Apaches didn't really have a primary fixed building, as they were nomadic and also lived in caves where there secret watering holes were located. However, based on my research I did find something of interest which may be usable.
The term " Yaa' ta' sai' Mai' 'aee, which translates to Knife Dance. According to my research, this was a circular sand pit (think warrior training circle with knifes and tomahawks) in which all males would train in the war arts ( see my above link on the knife fighting). Based on this, I would equate this to a barracks. I would give a +2 xp, and a +1 culture ( knife skills were part of the Apaches culture).

Let me know if this style works for you Dac, as when I start to assist you with the other tribes I'll want to make things easier for you in order to incorporate into your mod. When you get a chance, give me a base list of which tribes you want to start with (major tribes first, then we can throw in some minor tribes. Some of which could be quite fun to play).
 
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