Trying out new Pantheons, need input!

[The Pilgrim]

I referenced his guide after reading that post as well. I didn't expect it to be wrong but the posts in this topic seemed to indicate otherwise.

You may agree or disagree with WA strategy articles, but articles about game mechanics are verified before going public and thus are usually more reliable source than random posts across the boards. No offense to anybody.

 

[kirbdog]

Very nice. Could you explain why god of craftsmen is so high? I've never taken that one.

Its value is front-loaded. It helps your capital and any new cities get off the ground faster. The direct contribution fades in importance over time, but getting a stronger start faster is always a big advantage.

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

for the only time ever, I took Dance of the Aurora (+1 faith per tundra with no forest). but that was only because I was playing Inca and tundra hills were in abundance. Otherwise, it's a "never" pantheon.

 

[Zezima]

Yep, Goddess of Love is city population, not number of followers.

Attached are two screenies from a Celtic game I just fired up. Took GoL (even though this map screamed for Desert Folklore). First screenie shows pop 6, with 5 pantheon followers. Second screenie shows the happiness detail. GoL shows up as "1 from Local City Happiness."

See what you guys did? Made Browd sacrifice an awesome start just to prove his War Academy guide right.

I'm a big fan of God of Craftsmen as well. Makes the +15% to Ancient/Classical wonders one a joke, though. Capitals with low (4-5) production essentially get a 20-25% production boost to everything from it. And most early game cities are unlikely to have more than 5 production for some time.

 

[The Pilgrim]

See what you guys did? Made Browd sacrifice an awesome start just to prove his War Academy guide right.

Who are these guys you're talking about exactly?

God of Craftsmen was always at the very bottom of my list next to culture from shrines and faster border expansion. I think I've taken Goddess of Protection for denial purposes more times than this one. What am I missing?

 

[Calouste]

I haven't played Persia in a while, but doesn't Faith Healers make your Immortals truly immortal? In that they heal 100 points per turn if they are next to your city?

 

[Cissnei]

lol You listed the only 3 belief i ever choose

 

[Arachnofiend]

for the only time ever, I took Dance of the Aurora (+1 faith per tundra with no forest). but that was only because I was playing Inca and tundra hills were in abundance. Otherwise, it's a "never" pantheon.

Would you typically recommend Goddess of the Hunt for tundra starts? They're usually pretty abundant in trapping resources though the luxuries are still only supplying you with 2 food.

 

[Browd]

I haven't played Persia in a while, but doesn't Faith Healers make your Immortals truly immortal? In that they heal 100 points per turn if they are next to your city?

Actually, no, but there's enough misinformation about Faith Healers floating around the forums that I thought I would answer this question and address the misinformation.

First, post-Fall patch, the Immortal's "heals at double rate" promotion applies only to the regular +10 HP/turn healing rate that all units enjoy. It does not double the additional +10 HP from healing in friendly territory or the additional +5 HP from healing inside a city. It also does not double the +30 HP benefit from Faith Healers.

Second, Faith Healers requires that you be either inside the friendly city or immediately adjacent to the friendly city to get the healing benefit. The game designers mean what they say when they say "adjacent" (as with the Celtic UA requiring adjacent forests). Two tiles away is not good enough.

Since not everyone believes what they read in the forums, but may believe screenshots , I fired up a quick Emperor game to generate some screenshots to demonstrate the truth about which I speak. Attached are screenies of

• an injured Immortal (20/100 HP),
  
  
• the Immortal after 1 turn of healing in friendly territory, but not adjacent to a friendly city (here, the capital) (+30 HP, consisting of the base +10 HP, doubled by the Immortal healing promotion, and +10 HP for healing in friendly territory),
  
  
• the Immortal healing adjacent to the city center (+60 HP, consisting of the regular friendly territory healing, and +30 HP from Faith Healers) and
  
  
• the Immortal healing inside the city (+65 HP, consisting of everything above, and +5 HP for healing inside the city).

As a total aside, this is a really forgiving Emperor map for anyone interested in moving up to Emperor and playing the Persians. I was just messing around (just wanted to generate and then heal my test Immortal), but the spawning site is behind a wall of mountains with only 2 passages, 4 unique luxuries and a bunch of resources, and I got the first pantheon (and wasted it on Faith Healers ) and Statue of Zeus (which I've never built - got the achievement for that one ); GL went on turn 54 . I've attached the initial save for anyone interested (sorry, all DLCs required).

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

Would you typically recommend Goddess of the Hunt for tundra starts? They're usually pretty abundant in trapping resources though the luxuries are still only supplying you with 2 food.

If there were 4+ potential camps available (preferably deer) then maybe. tundras have slow growth and if your city will be working the furs/truffles anyway then yes but if you have only 1 or 2 and no more in good future city sites then i'd go with some other general benefit like MotG or Craftsman. Fertility Rites also might give you more food later than a couple camps getting +1. But honestly a heavy tundra start will most often get a re-roll from me. I dont need perfect areas, just not masochistic ones, haha.

 

[Calouste]

Thanks Browd, useful info.

 

[The Pilgrim]

Noo... Now you sacrificed two good starts for the sake of science! You deserve a medal, Browd!
Seriously, thanks. So nice when other people do the dirty work. You should add this to the WA article.

 

[Gucumatz]

Faith healers I have always thought as quite underrated. For Multiplayer its a very powerful pantheon for bulky melee units if you want to play defensive (heal 50 hp per turn? Yes please). And in singleplayer you won't ever be at risk even on higher levels if you take faith healers.

If you are Sweden with Caroleans, march will allow you to heal 50 hp per turn. If you are America with Brandenburg gate, your B-52s can start with air repair, meaning they will heal 55 hp per turn. If you are playing as Mongolia you can actually heal more HP than immortals can due to the Khan (15 hp per turn rather than the 10 from immortals). So theoretically you can heal 80 hp per turn without medics [If you are Persia and get a Khan gift from a city state, or if you are Mongolia and find the FOY, or if you are a random civ that gets a khan gift and the FOY]. Add in the 2 medic promotions (both of which I never really use often, but I know the first one gives +5 hp, not sure about Medic II) and the theoretical reaches either 90 hp or 95 hp per turn, depending on how much Medic II does.

 

[Browd]

Faith Healers is perfect for aircraft, since they finish every turn in a friendly city. For other units, the requirement to be adjacent to the city is a bit limiting for my taste. Helps considerably when you are on defense, but offers little to no benefit on offense (except for aircraft).

Medic II is, I believe, an additional +5 HP.

 

[Gucumatz]

Yea its really a defensive pantheon in my opinion, but very powerful. It will allow you to play tall with little issues and give you a late game edge with air units and if you know how to play tall you can grow quickly and just finish the map off as soon as you get air units with the pantheon.

 

[Sammydakid]

I carefully analyze the terrain around me before I pick a pantheon. If
I see lots of potential plantations, then oral tradition. If lots of potential pastures, god of the open sky. Lots of gold & silver, religious idols. Lots desert, desert folklore, etc. if there is nothing that appealing, fertility rites is my fall back.

 

[Browd]

Yea its really a defensive pantheon in my opinion, but very powerful. It will allow you to play tall with little issues and give you a late game edge with air units and if you know how to play tall you can grow quickly and just finish the map off as soon as you get air units with the pantheon.

The better question is, if going Tall, is Faith Healers the best choice? Probably better than Goddess of Protection (which the AI loves, for inexplicable reasons), but Fertility Rites will help you grow even taller. Terrain-based beliefs offer benefits throughout the game, not just during war (it's even better to avoid a DOW in the first place, and there are other tools for that -- won a Deity OCC game a few weeks ago where I started my only war -- used bribes and other diplo tools to avoid AI DOWs).

 

[Hammer Rabbi]

the Faith Healer/airplane combo never occurred to me. sounds interesting to try. I've only taken FH once when pantheons cost 30 faith and I had no shot at getting a religion. I was in a dow with 2 civs at the time so it worked out early. with japan it would mean constant plane shots at full strength.

 

[Browd]

the Faith Healer/airplane combo never occurred to me. sounds interesting to try. I've only taken FH once when pantheons cost 30 faith and I had no shot at getting a religion. I was in a dow with 2 civs at the time so it worked out early. with japan it would mean constant plane shots at full strength.

Faith Healers and Bushido ... that is interesting.

 

[Gucumatz]

The better question is, if going Tall, is Faith Healers the best choice? Probably better than Goddess of Protection (which the AI loves, for inexplicable reasons), but Fertility Rites will help you grow even taller. Terrain-based beliefs offer benefits throughout the game, not just during war (it's even better to avoid a DOW in the first place, and there are other tools for that -- won a Deity OCC game a few weeks ago where I started my only war -- used bribes and other diplo tools to avoid AI DOWs).

That's a fair point. But on multiplayer and certain deity situations you don't always have the luxury of just relying on diplomacy. Sometimes brute defense is just as important because you can put a larger focus then on growth and science.