TSG 254 After Actions

[vadalaz]

In this thread you can post the results of your game. Please state your victory/loss date (preferably in the post title) and describe your path to glory in this post! Players are encouraged to provide feedback on the game.

Quick links: Upload submission | Announcement thread | Opening actions

- Did you play peacefully or warlike?
- Were Portuguese unique abilities useful to you? What was your highest trade route gold yield?
- How many wonders did you build? Were you beaten to any?
- How quickly did you get an ideology and which one did you choose?

 

[Megalou]

Diplo victory t271

Yes - the UN is founded when the "world" enters Atomic era, which is triggered either by one civ entering Information era, or half of the remaining civs entering Atomic. The game rounds down when calculating half of the remaining civs, so if 3 civs are alive, only one needs to enter Atomic era. So the strategy is to eliminate all but two AIs and enter Atomic era.

Once again, I should have waited to study the wisdom of the announcement thread, but we will see if anyone pulls this off. When I won the game 30 turns into the Information era, only one AI had reached the Atomic era. This was in spite of intense tech stealing from Lisbon, which I did nothing to prevent. Of course, the AIs' progress can be manipulated to some extent by the human by creating extra 'Lebensraum' for the favoured AI. But no gifting of cities does make it harder.

When I left off in the opening spoiler, I had no religion yet. That would soon change and Divine Inspiration was the obvious follower belief, with so many wonders being collected. Soon after I built Taj Mahal for enhancement and selected Religious Community (+15% hammers). Swords Into Plowshares would surely have been better, though. You can never get enough food.

The game progressed pretty smoothly, but as most peaceful builder's games on lower levels, the excitement waned gradually - I wish I had tried the elimination-before-Atomic-age method. The two biggest disappointments were: (1) not a single WLTK day. The people wanted silk and I really, really didn't figure out how to get any. (2) I thought that by entering the Information age on the same turn as the previous UN session was finished, the World Leader vote would come much sooner than 30 turns down the line.

- Did you play peacefully or warlike?
Peacefully - all the more reason to pick Swords into Ploughshares

- Were Portuguese unique abilities useful to you? What was your highest trade route gold yield?
* Goods to Belgrade for 278 g and 21 XP for the one Nau that I built. But this was nothing compared to the Merchant of Venice that I was gifted - he netted 1800 gold in Kabul.
* The Feitorias were nice, although not vital. One helped me get spices when I needed it. The unique worker ability played nicely with the OCC: Since all city improvements were more or less completed long before navigation, workers could be sent out to distant areas well in advance, and even do some exploring.

- How many wonders did you build? Were you beaten to any?
I built 25 wonders and virtually all national wonders (even Heroic Epic). I was beaten to Notre Dame, but it wasn't a big deal. But I did skip Artemis, which was probably wrong.

- How quickly did you get an ideology and which one did you choose?
Only being able to build 1 factory obviously delayed it. I got Freedom around turn 180. One of the 2 engineers that couldn't be avoided hurried Statue of Liberty soon after.
30 turns before the end I made Freedom the World Ideology, the same turn I got Telecommunications. But since I had to wait 30 turns for the World Leader vote, this made no difference one way or the other, since Globalization was easily reached during that waiting period. Those 30 turns were a total drag and felt unfair somehow.

 

[The_Black_Vegetable]

Diplomatic victory T229. Following what was a very good start for me, my game continued to be good, but, as with all GotM diplo challenges, I did not master the art of exactly reaching a particular era at the right time. I entered Printing Press at turn 128, having first gone astronomy. For a really strong finish time, I should then have reached atomic just before the second vote, and I should have eliminated all but two civs by that time. I might have reached Atomic in time, but I would not have been able to eliminate the required number of civs.

I did not fully realize all of the above while I was playing, so I undertook the misguided operation to wipe out five civilizations in time for the third vote - which was completely unnecessary as I easily reached the information era in time for the third vote. Still, even if it was not very good for my gpt, and it temporarily suspended my Swords into Plowshares, it was still fun to smash the AI with a single social policy: foreign legions upgraded to infantry.

Before that time, my game had proceeded smoothly. I did need to work research for a few turns to reach astronomy quickly enough for the rationalism opener, then it was public schools into radio with a single scientist bulb - in time for me to propose World Ideology and also netting me an early Freedom. I used the Rationalism finisher for Plastics, and then researched towards Penicillin. I also made a brief detour to Chemistry to build a few cannons, although those were not actually needed.

Some other noteworthy things from my game: my scouting was pretty poor. Even on turn 229 I still had only discovered 15 city states. Another thing was for this game I planted three scientists (having only just argued the day before that you should never plant your scientists ). For OCC, I was worried my science would be too slow without some extra boost in the form the academies, and I also picked New Deal as I did not need Universal Suffrage this game. I'm curious to see if the faster players planted any scientists and if so, how many.

 

[Megalou]

Well done, Blackie! (Blavver would be synchronous with Bladder but sounds too weird.)

So, anyone, when in the cycle of the World Congress is it best to enter the information age if you don’t want to wait so long for the World Leader vote? What are the minimum and maximum waiting times?

 

[vadalaz]

You want to enter Atomic/Info as quickly as you can. Timing DiploV is more about choosing when to research Printing Press and how many regular congress votes you allow to occur.

For example, if you're aiming for a turn 199 win, you could achieve that by researching Printing Press on turn 151 and founding UN before the first congress vote:

Turn 151 PP
+ 30 turns countdown to the first vote
+ 4 turns for the world to advance to Industrial and then Modern
(so UN must be founded before turn 185 if you're going for a 1-cycle win)

+ 2 turns for the world to advance to Atomic
+ 1 turn for the first Congress vote
+ 10 turns countdown to World Leader vote
= turn 198 World Leader vote and turn 199 victory
(I believe these numbers are correct, but it's been a long time since I played fast Diplo...)

Same principle works for 2- and 3-cycle wins. You could also shave off two turns by advancing two eras in one turn: research Sci Theory, use a GS bulb for Electricity, Oxford Radio, eliminate five AIs, leaving only three major civs alive, all done on the same turn. The world goes from Renaissance straight to Modern this way.

 

[Megalou]

Thanks. What I still find it hard to see is why in your example another UN proposal cycle of 20t isn’t added before the World Leader countdown. Because that’s what happened to me I think. I can’t remember which World Congress cycle was finished the same turn I entered the information era, but I think the UN was formed within the same time frame that you presented. Or must I enter the new era 1 turn before the voting is concluded?

 

[vadalaz]

Yes, it needs to happen at least 1 turn before the vote occurs. Entering Info era on the same turn as the congress vote occurs is unfortunately too late and starts another "normal" voting cycle, which I also found out the hard way some years ago when I was submitting games to the HOF

 

[fiddlesticks]

Diplomatic victory turn 201(202)

- Did you play peacefully or warlike?
Warlike. A mix of xbows and trebuchets took out the Dutch and Carthage, and the foreign legions helped finish Sweden, Siam and Poland. Greece and Persia were the lucky civs left standing

- Were Portuguese unique abilities useful to you? What was your highest trade route gold yield?
Not really. At the end I had some 35+ routes after picking up the last patronage policy. The Nau's brought in ~1,000g and helped take down some coastal cities.

- How many wonders did you build? Were you beaten to any?
GL - 38, NC - 46, ToA - 55, HG, MoH - 88, Parthenon

- How quickly did you get an ideology and which one did you choose?
Freedom after Oxford into Radio around turn 150

Key milestones: PP - 128, 186 - enter atomic era (last Polish city fell). I hit atomic theory several turns earlier.

 

[zxcvbob]

DV on turn 303 (Information Era, not Atomic.) For some reason I did not get my extra votes from Globalization even tho' my diplomats were schmoozing. The extra votes show up now on the next turn; I guess I was 1 turn too late assigning them. But I had just enough votes without them. I have one spy not doing anything because he was just ejected from Carthage when Alex conquered it.

This was a lot of fun. The cities going *poof* when you capture them is pretty cool, but then you can't liberate them nor use them to heal or upgrade your troops.

- Did you play peacefully or warlike? Peaceful, except when Poland settled a city 4 tiles away from Lisbon. I bided my time for a while as I built up an army, then bribed him to attack either Dido or Alex, I don't remember (probably Dido but he ended up fighting both), then I declared war and wiped him out. I let Alex capture the last city, but my frigate softened it up to make sure he could take it. I couldn't tell whether you get to keep any captured great works, but since I have empty slots and no Polish art or literature I think they must just be destroyed.

- Were Portuguese unique abilities useful to you? What was your highest trade route gold yield? The Nau was good because I think it has more range than a caravel, and the gold was nice but not significant. Feitoria were useless because by then I was allied to the CSs anyway, but I built some just because my workers had already improved all the tiles back home. The extra gold from trade routes was very useful; my highest was 45 gold per turn, another was 41, and lots in the 30s. A few were recently pillaged by barbs and I sent a sub to clean that up but I haven't replaced the cargo ships yet.

- How many wonders did you build? Were you beaten to any? I built 22. The only one I was trying for and got beat was the Mausoleum. I started it and then switched to Hanging Gardens when that unlocked, then Gustav built MoH just as I was getting back to it. If I had kept working on it I would have gotten it but at the risk of someone beating me to HG.

- How quickly did you get an ideology and which one did you choose? I don't remember what turn but I think it was a little before 200. I researched Navigation, Chemistry, and Industrialization before Electricity because I thought they were more useful than shaving a dozen turns off getting an ideology. I Oxford'd into Radio and picked Freedom. (then used the Rationalism finisher for Plastics)

 

[The_Black_Vegetable]

Key milestones: PP - 128

I was really satisfied with my opening play, and since I also entered Printing Press T128, a faster finish was still possible at that stage (although I have one pop less at T100). The biggest thing was probably not doing/not being able to do war early enough, but I also I wonder whether I planted too many academies. I think I see one in your city, I had three.

 

[fiddlesticks]

This was a really fun game. I agree with @zxcvbob that watching the captured cities go 'poof' was very satisfying, though it did make healing troops on conquest trickier, and I relied on workers and pillaging to speed up healing.

I had planned on a 2-cycle diplomacy win from the start, thinking that the one-city challenge would make a 1-cycle really tricky, even if I delayed PP a lot. Of the four constraints (science, gold, votes and military) I could tell military would be the key constraint, and it was.

I had way more science than I needed to reach atomic theory before the second cycle. I could have planted a second, or better, I could have bulbed scientists earlier. I had pretty good luck allying cultural and military CS's, so I was able to get consulates before going to rationalism, which was very helpful in allying CS's with just one quest.

If I replayed it, I would bulb my first GS to hit PP around T122, build a few less wonders and more units and certainly could shave off a few turns. I think going straight to PP before Astronomy is possible too for a 2 cycle win around T188-192 (PP of 114-118)

 

[sebtanic]

Diplo win turn 238.

I had 17 pop at turn 100. At first I was unsure whether to go military, but then decided it would be much more fun than a peaceful Diplo game which is basically just a tech race to information era. And fun it was! I agree that instantly razing cities is awesome. No happiness slog, I think I had the happiest empire ever with something like 90 smiley faces near the end.

My pantheon was DF, Religion first Tithe and +2 Faith per Wonder, then extra Production and faster spread.

Early wonders:

t71 NC
t79 ToA
t90 Oracle (completed Tradition)
t96 HG
t103 Petra
... I built a lot more, but stopped taking notes.

Oh and I built the Great Wall, so no one else would.

After researching Education, I bought a university and decided to eliminate the southern civs (leaving Poland and Carthage alive). I beelined XBs, then Astronomy and got Navigation with Oxford. Then I realized I had traded all my iron away! I had to DOW Carthage to get at least a few iron back. At first I only had 3 or 4 Frigates, but they were quite sufficient to make short work of the coastal cities. My hordes of Crossbows took care of the rest.

At turn 210, only 2 rival civs were left.

Turn 220 I researched Penicillin, thus hitting the Atomic Era.
Fortunately, this was just 4 turns before a World Congress vote, and I won the game 18 turns later.

(I've never been one to time the vote cycles, in fact this is the first time I'm reading about the strategy. It sounds interesting but I'm not sure if it's actually fun to play that way or too much of a headache...? I'm generally not a fan of planning so far ahead )

I had most of the city states allied through random quests, especially barb quests. Just sending a couple of Knights to the heathen continents was enough. One even got upgraded to Cavalry from a ruin, I'm not even sure if I had that tech at that point!

The rest of the city states got bought, since I was swimming in gold anyway.

As for Ideology, I took Autocracy but I think Freedom would have been better with it's 6 foreign legions. I didn't really need them though, also I almost always end up taking Freedom so I wanted to play a bit different this time.

Fun observations:
- Cities going *poof* is awesome, no happiness drain, no waiting
- Taking cities with a Nao, it actually stays in the tile where the city was. Then the next turn it gets teleported to the capital!
- I got gifted a Conquistador, and had to try whether it can settle a city on another continent. Didn't work though, the button wasn't there. It would have been too funny ending a OCC with 2 cities
- I never had a WLTKD, it required Citrus and I don't think it was available anywhere

I had way too many units in the end, and had to delete some useless GPs and other units that I got gifted from city states because I was too far over the unit supply.

Unit supply seems to work differently in OCC. When it was at -5 my production wouldn't be penalized, but even so I at times had -60% production and had to delete workers and other obsolete units.

Screenshots:

Turn 100... we're still mostly harmless

turn 210: Athens captured, military mission accomplished

t238 Diplo win

...

Bonus: A Nao sitting in the desert after capturing a Greek expo!!

 

[Rhodro]

Nice write ups here!
Myself I won at turn 274. Diplomatic victory timing is my worst, I admit I didn't put enough effort in learning how to end it quickly. I had no idea the printing press timing is crucial.
I started conquering with foreign legions from freedom. Made a 2nd army with gold bought artilleries and pathfinders. Even though I tried my best to have only 3 civs left in atomic era, my conquering was too slow and I was in info era already when I wiped out persia and had carthage & greece left.
I also noticed the bug when you capture a city with a boat in OCC mode teleporting it back to your own capital. Very annoying.
I ended up with 57 pop lol.

- Were Portuguese unique abilities useful to you? What was your highest trade route gold yield?
Feitora: No.
I used 2 Nau to discover the world, used the special ability with both of them for about 260g-270g. Didn't feel worth it to make more Nau.
In the end each trade route was like 50g/turn.

I had 3 knights going around the new continent to gather ancient ruins but this didn't get me much. Only 1 knight upgraded to cavelry, but the timing was late, so not amazing at all. The rest was just maps and barb reveals, 50golds and sometimes a pop. At least the pop gives a bit of science.

Spoiler :

 

[Doctor_Z0ne]

I love growing my cities this much.
After you wonder spam in the earlier eras you can do whatever you want.

 

[leif erikson]

Welcome to CivFanatics.

Thank you for sharing your game.

 

[lymond]

Turn 268 Diplo

Spoiler write up :

(Preface: I've played 5 since release off and on, and a 5GOTM now and then over the years. Not a big fan of the game, but I enjoy playing it a certain way once in a while just for a change of pace - something different. I may have submitted a GOTM before many years ago, or this may be the first time - not sure. Most times that I have played a 5OTM it is just been for a bit of fun, and I usually reload for stupid stuff, and rarely complete them anyway. I made a concerted effort to complete this game and without reloads. I'm not terribly good at the game..ha...I mostly play 5 as a war game and recently mostly play Spain for fun)


I did not post an opening narrative, so will begin with a bit of my start priorities. I did a typical scout-scout-shrine start here. I did see some advantage to getting a reli here, especially at this level, for certain bonuses. My goal was to get Desert Folklore and I did - obviously best choice. Now, usually I always like going for some of the reli buildings for culture/happiness but obviously that is "out the door" in an OCC. So I took the shrine/temple food and the 15% production, which both seemed to me the most beneficial for this type of game. I still took the usual Tithe/25% spread.

I prioritized Great Library, HG, and Petra early. Actually, I built almost all wonder available to me in this game as that was really the only thing to do here. I did not build the Statue of Zeus, which wasn't relevant anyway, and I think I missed on Great Lighthouse, which would have been kinda nice actually.

I stole a worker from Almaty and built one after the shrine. Barbs were not much of an issue locally, but did go out an do several CS missions everywhere.

- Did you play peacefully or warlike? Almost entirely peacefully. I did declare war early on Willem for a few reasons. First, he had the audacity..ha...to plant an early city on my borders that potentially could grab some of my tiles. Ofc, that is unacceptable. (I did buy the tiles anyway) He was an early religion founder and I did not want that heathen religion near me. He was the only AI that did not like me at all. I declared on him, but that was my only DOW. I never took/razed one city in the entire game. I'd allied with Kabul very early and Kabul took care of the first city. Bribed Darius on Willem a bit later and he took care of wiping Willem out. All I did was send my archery units to whittle down the defenses in these cities.

Otherwise, the only thing I did was bribe all the AIs into war with each other. The entire game. Meanwhile, having DOFs and research agreements with everyone except Alex, who was dispatched by Dido per my influence - teehee. (Alex I would have destroyed otherwise, if not, as he is simply annoying, especially for Diplo games) Poland got testy at times due to DOFs with Darius, whom he did not like, but always came back to the fold. I had to eventually end the DOF with Darius as he had grown too unpopular but did get a couple of completed research agreements. I was basically friends with Siam and Sweden the entire game, though I constantly had them fighting each other.
- Were Portuguese unique abilities useful to you? What was your highest trade route gold yield?
Never fully understood Portuguese stuff much nor cared for them. I think they may be the most boring of the 5 civs this side of the Vikings. I did build/upgrade a few of their boats and did the thing with them. I built the Feitoras in a bunch of CSs just for something to do but it added nothing. (Most city states had the same dern lux which I've always found especially annoying that the game does that). As for the trade route stuff, I made a ton of money but I've no clue how that works. I was getting about 40g per route by the end.
- How many wonders did you build? Were you beaten to any?
I built 21 wonders it appears, which does not include the NWs. Contrary to what I said above the AIs did build quite a few, but most I did not care about much at all. ToA would have been nice but was built early while I was focus on thing like The Great Library and Hanging Gardens, which I felt important. I was beaten to The Great Lighthouse, which actually would have been useful, but no biggy. I did attempt Hagia and Boro mainly for denying, but Ram was all over them. Otherwise, I only tried some for CS missions and actually did get Terracota for one mission. As the game progressed though, I got all the important wonders of note like Porcelain and it basically reached a point where, outside of putting hammers into the Fair and Games, I was just building wonder after wonder. I used a late engineer on CN Tower.
- How quickly did you get an ideology and which one did you choose?
I'm not sure of the timing of the Idealogy. Teching was relatively slow with this setup. I think I did bulb once or twice to get to that age a bit quicker. I think I used Ox on Radio. I went Freedom mainly for the two key policies it had related to growth and GP generation. Many of those policies were not of much use though. Happiness was never an issue at all, and you can see in my screenshot below I was at 126 global happiness. Still, I'm not sure if the other ideologies would have been better or not, maybe from a science standpoint.

So back to the narrative, I bulbed Astro to start getting units overseas to pop huts, meet CS, and do their barb missions, and also keep barb camps at bay as later on they start spawning more advanced ships that can be a huge problem for trade routes. In fact, I had a few trade routes destroyed. At some point by mid to late game, all city-states in the game were in my control via missions, bribes, and spies.

As for huts, there were a lot. I mainly got pop increases and unit upgrades. The pop increase was very nice. I think I must have had about 10 pop increases this game from huts.

To close, the late game really was just clicking end turn for some time with the only action managing builds of wonders, buying buildings, and the Fair and Games hammers. One reason I don't like Diplo is the timing just seems so long. I made it a priority to build into the Information Age, which I def could have handled my scientists better, but it just takes a lot of time after that. (I'm not really a student of this game at all so not very good with the timings to get early Diplo and Space though did learn some things from yall's notes)

Anyway, fun game and a great starting position. Petra really rocked this game.

Oh, on WLTK day, I did not get one for quite some time, but realized an AI did have that lux but not an extra. Eventually, I figured this out and bought it. I think it was Sugar. So my first WLTK day was probably not until around the time I got my Uni up. After that, I had one after the other for a long time until I hit another lux that no one had - Pearls I believe. Must have been in the New World but no AIs ever settled overseas.

SILK was probably the big issue in this game. I noticed there was one over near Alex that he never was able to grab before Dido destroyed him and Dido never expanded to it - it was forested. Luckily, it never came up for WLTK but so many CS's wanted it. Oh well.

Spoiler End Game Lisbon :

 

[zxcvbob]

This is fun one to beeline Radio and take Volunteer Army for your 3rd Freedom tenet. Then go on a murder spree Six foreign legions can easily take down AI cities at that point even in rough terrain and without any ranged support if you are just a little bit careful not to lose any. (it's kind of funny having them when I haven't researched gunpowder yet) Then upgrade them to real infantry about the time they start struggling a bit and keep the campaign going. But I haven't managed to kill enough neighbors to trigger an atomic era UN. Perhaps you need to start sooner than that; say, at composite bows and pikes, or maybe crossbows.

 

[sebtanic]

This is fun one to beeline Radio and take Volunteer Army for your 3rd Freedom tenet. Then go on a murder spree Six foreign legions can easily take down AI cities at that point even in rough terrain and without any ranged support if you are just a little bit careful not to lose any. (it's kind of funny having them when I haven't researched gunpowder yet) Then upgrade them to real infantry about the time they start struggling a bit and keep the campaign going. But I haven't managed to kill enough neighbors to trigger an atomic era UN. Perhaps you need to start sooner than that; say, at composite bows and pikes, or maybe crossbows.

I thought about it, but decided against it since I didnt want to go freedom again. It would have been fun but I didnt really need the units since my army was doing fine and had already taken out a few civs. Wasnt even sure if my foreign legions would have arrived to the party in time.

 

[Rogerio_AA]

Civ5 TSG 254
Game status: Diplomatic Victory
Turns played: 398
Final score: 1480

It was hard to start the game, because my children kept interrupting me... After a few turns, when I couldn't make a Settler, I discovered that the game was OCC!

- Did you play peacefully or warlike?
I swear I tried to play peacefully, but the Mutual Protection Pacts kept dragging me into wars, starting with the Renaissance. Under these conditions, I tried to balance the power of the AIs, attacking the strongest ones and providing units to the weakest ones.
I took the opportunity to expand the borders using the Great Generals, gathering more resources.

- Were Portuguese unique abilities useful to you? What was your highest trade route gold yield?
Yes, the trade agreements were already guaranteeing a good flow of gold.

- How many wonders did you build? Were you beaten to any?
I managed to build 10 National Wonders and 25 Great Wonders, including opening some of their respective Social Policies to unlock them.
I prioritized Mausoleum of Halicarnassus, Petra and Forbidden Palace.
I started building Notre Dame, Alhambra and Learning Tower of Pisa, but lost to the AI.
I built the Wonders to house Great Works to avoid being culturally nfluenced by the AIs.

Wonders

Ancient Era: Great Library turn 41, Mausoleum of Halicarnassus, turn 52. Classical Era: Oracle turn 85, Petra turn 92, Colossus, turn 96. Hanging Gardens turn 109. Medieval Era: Machu Picchu, turn 117. ​ ​ ​

Renaissance Era: Forbidden Pallace turn 137, Ufizzi turn 179, Sistine Chapel turn 211, Himeji Castle turn 218, Taj Mahal turn 224, Porcelain Tower turn 268. Industrial Era: Louvre turn 206, Big Ben turn 244, Brandenburg Gate turn 264. ​ ​ ​ ​

Modern Era: Broadway turn 276, Eiffel Tower turn 306, Statue of Liberty turn 301, Christ the Redeemer turn 313, Newschwanstein turn 320. Atomic Era: Manhattan Project turn 336 Sydney Opera House 346, Great Firewall turn 379. Information Era: CN Tower turn 374.

National Wonders: National College turn 74, Oxford University turn 128, National Epic turn 170, Iron Works turn 196, Hermitage turn 198, East India Company turn 200, Grand Temple turn 219, Circus Maximus turn 239, Heroic Epic turn 249, National Intelligence Agency turn 269 ​ ​ ​ ​

- How quickly did you get an ideology and which one did you choose?
It took me a while to open the Ideologies, and I ended up choosing Freedom - more specifically the Tenet 'New Deal', since it had several Manufactories and the 'Treaty Organization', due to the trade with the City-States.

Religion: chose the Pantheon of Gods: Desert Folklore on turn 33, taking advantage of the amount of Desert tiles on the StartPoint, and founded the Catholicism religion on turn 84, with Papal Primacy and Divine Inspiration enhanced by Religious Community (to enhance de production) and Religious Unity.

 

[billybgame]

Knew I'd be way behind, as didn't feel like warring in this one. In retrospect, there were so many Military C/S, I had units galore all around Lisbon. No one dared attack either though.

Turn 367.......so my only thoughts are how Bob was 66 turns earlier. I think there are some timing issues with when you get to Modern era perhaps....My spirits dropped when Diplo voting was added and had almost 30 turns to get a vote.

Yeah, should have been war monger......I was allied with all the C/S for so many thousands of years....could have easily won it far earlier.

This OCC did make me wonder if this might not be a way to earn my first higher diff victories. I had like 70k gold and 90+ happiness. So makes me think entirely possible to win this way against stiffer AI.