TSG47 After Action Report

[Gamewizard]

You only know then current ally and only relative to yours. Move the mouse to the 'progress line'

Yes I know this, but gkreitz claimed to know that the AI was couping from zero influence. I was wondering how he knew the influence level of other civs if he was already the ally of said CS.

On a related note, I noticed in my game today that I had a level 3 spy in a CS that I had zero influence with, Germany was allied to the CS with about 70 influence and I had the option to attempt a coup with a 45% success chance. I didn't try it but I could see the AI going for it and getting lucky.

 

[gkreitz]

How do you know how much influence other civs have with the CS?

When they successfully coup, you get what they had (or at least so I think). Thus, I assume they had 0 when I'm moved to 0 when they successfully steal a CS ally from me with a coup.

 

[i_am_memory]

Hi all.
This one was above my skill level. I've lost the game four times now, but I'm getting better. Still, even knowing the layout of the land I haven't figured out a solution.

 

[killerloop]

finally finished Diplo Victory t225 w/o RAs.

I replayed 14 turns from turn 60 after my 1st game did two autoannexes.
At turn 65 I was in war with Celts, Greece and Austria despite having 7 archers! New patch is aggressive.

Settled SW on the hill, build Barcelona on hill next to Mt. Kailash and Sevilla on the bananas N of the W-Silk. Got myself Salzburg from the 1st war with Austria. After that fought a long war with Greece, and close to the end a short one with Boudica once more.

Did a full tradition, then rationalism left side, patronage opener, rationalism right side.
Did Sailing before Writing, still got myself GLib and then NC. Beeline Edu, beeline Scientific Theory. After that I hoovered around 440bpt till my 8 GSs, Oxford and Rationalism got me to UN. Build that one in 4 turns with the GE from Pisa.

Austria was playing dirty by going for Jakarta at turn 205, being my friend and having a defensive pact. My long term pall was suddenly gone! Finally still had 7 allies and two voters for me, Sweden and Austria.

Great Generals didn't work for me, no flanking bonus at all, seem to be a bug still.

Tx Staff for another fun game!

 

[Halcyan2]

Yes I know this, but gkreitz claimed to know that the AI was couping from zero influence. I was wondering how he knew the influence level of other civs if he was already the ally of said CS.

On a related note, I noticed in my game today that I had a level 3 spy in a CS that I had zero influence with, Germany was allied to the CS with about 70 influence and I had the option to attempt a coup with a 45% success chance. I didn't try it but I could see the AI going for it and getting lucky.

Yes, I think there's something wonky with the coup algorithms.

1. I've had several cases where another civ coups when they have 0 influence and I am allied. I go back down to 0. In some cases, I already have a spy there, but if I want to coup in return, my percent chance is 0%, even though they just managed to do the same thing! Maybe their spy is more experienced but still....

2. The most annoying thing is when civs you are at war with manage a coup. In some cases, they are at -60 and still manage to do it. Yeah, I realize that the chance is supposed to be doubled if there is no other spy present but that seems problematic.

On the other hand, the new AI behavior to reduce gold on hand does result in fewer alliances with city states by the AI's, so coups do help even things out.

However, I feel that coups are way too easy for the AI. In fact, it provides a large disincentive to invest time in city states. I really liked what G&K did with city states and the larger focus on quests. Now, post-patch I wonder if it's really worth spending too much time/gold to get influence with city states if you can drop down to 0 or -60 so easily with coups.

 

[Gamewizard]

However, I feel that coups are way too easy for the AI. In fact, it provides a large disincentive to invest time in city states. I really liked what G&K did with city states and the larger focus on quests. Now, post-patch I wonder if it's really worth spending too much time/gold to get influence with city states if you can drop down to 0 or -60 so easily with coups.

Would you want them stealing all of your tech or stealing all of your CS? A tough choice for sure.

 

[Halcyan2]

Would you want them stealing all of your tech or stealing all of your CS? A tough choice for sure.

Techs for sure.

1. Gives me the opportunity to "level up" my spies.

2. When I catch them, it gives me a minor diplomatic boost when I forgive them.

3. Lets the AI's catch up a bit in terms of tech, which will make research agreements cheaper.

 

[glory7]

Techs for sure.

1. Gives me the opportunity to "level up" my spies.

2. When I catch them, it gives me a minor diplomatic boost when I forgive them.

3. Lets the AI's catch up a bit in terms of tech, which will make research agreements cheaper.

haven't thought about the 3rd point. Is it b/c of the recent patch?

 

[paceybaby]

Game: Civ5 GOTM 47
Date submitted: 2012-11-12
Reference number: 27650
Your name: paceybaby
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1890AD
Turns played: 315
Base score: 1449
Final score: 2300
Time played: 19:47:00

Really enjoyed this game, there was much to think about early on. My immediate thoughts were to be nice to everyone, get RAs and a nice easy diplo victory. However when you're next to Alex and Celts, there's gonna be a rumble.

After surviving a TRIPLE DOW from Celts, Austria and Alex, I managed to get GPT from each of them for peace

I took down Edinburgh early and then planned to take on Alex as he was becoming more powerful, destroying my best mates the Mayans. I envisioned Alex conquering and controlling all the city states so wanted to stop him. Thankfully he was pretty much hated by everyone and we all took chunks out of him.

I made some big mistakes however. I didnt realise I could purchase GS with faith with rationalism, which would have given me a much earlier win as I had the dominant religion and almost 100 faith per turn without really trying that hard. Also I should have had the iron works going much earlier for the end race for UN.

Either way, it was a great game and looking forward to the next one

 

[AE_]

I didn't get the GL the first time I played, so I did a replay where I managed to build GL around turn 45. With that advantage and the map knowledge I managed a turn 202 victory.

I built 2 cities very early with help from the first national wonder. Then I built 2 more after the completion of NC. I also had a 6th settler at the same time, but it got taken by the Celts and the city spot (close to the fur down south) was claimed by the enemy...

To build the capital east of the river was a great advantage in the second game, and knowledge of the island to the east also help me win faster.

Spoiler :

 

[glory7]

- How did you use your UU's?
Didn’t really use them as I didn’t really fight anyone. I was focusing on sci and xbows were more than enough to hold celts off.

- How did you use religion or spying to your advantage?
Got one with nature and founded religion pretty quick. Got tithe (I was planning on long game and difficulty is high enough so I thought this one is better than church property) and holy warrior to def if necessary, as I faced two aggressive civs (Greece and celt) nearby. Enhanced before any other civ did and chose itinerant preacher (+30%) and pagoda. Tithe really helped my economy – I think I got more than 50 gpt after turn 160. Also, bought GPs with faith and that helped.

- How did diplomacy go with your neighbors?
As expected, Celt DoWed on me but with good terrain and CB from upgrades/holy warriors, I could easily defend it. Made peace once but she DoWed me again later – not a real threat though. I tried to maintain good relationship with everyone so I didn’t even steal a single worker from other civs/CS. I had RAs with 2 civs and that certainly helped.

-Gameplay
I settled at the starting point and went scout-scout-monument, as finding natural wonder is really important for Spain. I found kaliash with my first scout and bought settler right after the cap hit pop 2. Settled on the hill and bought one tile to get the precious natural wonder. Built granary for that city but it took really long as I only worked on the wonder before pop 2.

I found another natural wonder at south-west but that one was over celt and belongs to CS, so I forgot about it after getting 500 gold. I still could not find other 2 remaining wonders after scouting for a while, and suspected there might be great barrier reef (as they tend to have two at the same time). Got one trireme to scout and def 2 pearl from barbs later. Found old faithful with salt and two ruins at the island. It was really worth it.

Settled 3rd city on the hill next to silk and 4th one next to salt near old faithful (built on the coast and bought two tiles for the wonder). Went tradition, so 4 cities were enough.
Completed tradition and went patronage opener and the first on the left column. After that, finished rationalism. For wonders, missed early ones but got oracle-PT-Pisa-Sistine-Statue of lib-taj-big ben-louvre. Got science lead around renaissance and cap was pretty big at that time so could get many wonders.

Basically played as if I was aiming for science vic, since the point was to hit globalization tech asap and get UN asap. Tried to get more RAs, but had 2. Bought several CS during the game and got money from religion. I miscalculated a bit and one RA kicked in after I am done with globalization. When I was about 7 techs away, one RA kicked in and I bulbed two GS. I got the last three beeline tech from rationalism finisher and oxford.

I had one surplus GS that I bought earlier with faith, and I could have saved 3 turns on UN if I had chosen GE instead. (I bought 2 GS and 1 GE with faith and it would have been much better if I bought 2 GE instead). After securing 9 CS, I DoWed Sweden so that it cannot steal my CS before the election. Other civs didn’t have enough money so didn’t bother.

I had a great start (first discovery of 3 natural wonders and one faith wonder near cap!), so it was a lucky game for me. I messed up 4-5 turns at the endgame, but I am happy with the result.

 

[glory7]

I didn't get the GL the first time I played, so I did a replay where I managed to build GL around turn 45. With that advantage and the map knowledge I managed a turn 202 victory.

I built 2 cities very early with help from the first national wonder. Then I built 2 more after the completion of NC. I also had a 6th settler at the same time, but it got taken by the Celts and the city spot (close to the fur down south) was claimed by the enemy...

To build the capital east of the river was a great advantage in the second game, and knowledge of the island to the east also help me win faster.

Spoiler :

even with replay, t 202 finish is amazing...nice job done.

 

[AE_]

even with replay, t 202 finish is amazing...nice job done.

Thanks, it was a fun game to play since you have a lot more money to spend at the first turns compared to other games. My best diplo game so far

 

[Tesuji]

When they successfully coup, you get what they had (or at least so I think). Thus, I assume they had 0 when I'm moved to 0 when they successfully steal a CS ally from me with a coup.

I've also found myself playing tag with an AI, trying to buy a CS alliance. I'd buy more influence to become ally, the next turn the AI would replace me. That for several turns in a row. Then, all of a sudden, he replaces my through a coup right after I bought more influence. For me I think it takes a turn (or several?) to stage a coup, so the AI seems to be cheating there too.

In itself I don't mind, it's not like it's a fair game on Immortal or Deity anyway.

(Just won my first Deity game yesterday, yay!)

 

[Monthar]

It only takes several turns to move the spy to the CS. Once the spy is in place coups happen instantly when they make the attempt.

 

[scaramonga]

My attempt lol...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaAjUrlDeco

 

[kamikazees]

Reference number: 27658
Game status: Science Loss
Game date: 1926AD
Turns played: 347

Well, this was a close one. My first immortal game after the patch (usually play on king/emperor). I ran into the auto-annex and -10 happiness bug, but I don't think those killed my game. War did.

I went tradition 4-city. I discovered the wonder (500g!) but failed to get a settler there in time. So I used it to steal the spices from Jakarta instead.

I managed to get NC by almost T100, but the Celts attacked me very early. At first she was just an annoyance, but she kept attacking me over and over... almost 200 turns of war. I never lost a city, but she pillaged a lot. I did get one favorable peace deal, but it only lasted to the next DoW.

Around T125, she and Greece doubled-up on me. He pillaged too. At one point they had allied Marrakech and Jakarta, so I was fighting on at least 3 fronts. I held them all off, but the heavy investment in gold/units set me wayyy back.

Meanwhile, Siam became the runaway with like 20 cities. He tore up Sweden, Maya, then Greece. I managed to keep up techwise, and I finally busted through the Celts and took them down to 1 city around T275. In the meantime, Siam allied 1/2 the city states with a huge gold reserve. I was getting them back (Wittenburg was his aluminum source!) and building the UN when he launched.

And not a single reseaerch agreement the whole game...

Hard game, tough game, but fun. Thank you!

 

[Gamewizard]

What are you saving your faith for?

 

[kamikazees]

What are you saving your faith for?

I was saving it to buy a great engineer after taking the order policy so I could quickly build the UN. However, Siam went Autocracy so my plan changed. When he gobbled up everyone around me and started giving me 209 for luxuries (which I read as "soon I will DoW you"), I decided to take Autocracy too.

That made him very happy (even got a DoF from him), but I could not buy my engineer then... I suppose I could have bought a scientist with it (I went rationalism), but I really didn't need one. What I needed was to get Wittenberg away from Siam.

As you might see from the screenshot, I was also building up nukes to go after Siam, but I was too slow...

 

[tommynt]

Ok finaly won this turn 187.
Had loads of game crashes from like t140 to turn 165 when I was killing greece

settled on hill sw after I scouted marble in turn 0 to be in range there - in the end the missed river sucked a bit cause of no additional shields but setting in place or east didnt look appealing anyway with few production in sight - also I still had access to coast from this hill

founded 1. city obviously on hill close to the faith hill1 and took the +4 faith per nw which doubled right away - I m pretty 100% sure that this is the way to play spain and every1 taking another belief is just doing it wrong.

Well I made video footage of most game (deleted the 1 turn videos from midgame when game crashed like every 2nd turn - usually at end of turns)

editart1 http://youtu.be/81kg_QM596M