TSG62 After Actions

Game: Civ5 GOTM 62
Date submitted: 2013-06-12
Reference number: 29147
Your name: Tinker
Game status: Diplomacy Loss
Game date: 1824AD
Turns played: 282
Base score: 574
Final score: 574

I might have been able to pull off a diplomacy theory by setting AIs against each other, but my GPT was just too weak and the Mayans and Persians just too strong. Fun playing around with my religion, though. Ramesses put a very strange little mountain city between me and the Vatican, and the cities to the southwest kept getting taken over by the Persians, Germans and Romans. Never got into any wars whatsoever.
 

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You just got to pay him to keep fighting someone else, as soon as one war ends pay for another. That's number one priority and since he was a runaway it was not too expensive 300-700 for me in most cases.

Fighting defensive wars on deity is losing proposition as I found out many times, once they hit flight they tear your range units to pieces and it's game over. You have to get to their core lands by then or beeline flight.

I tried giving away the 200+ gold I had and some resources, but they wouldn't accept. Both Rome & Persia only wanted the 2 non-capital cities I had. No way I was giving them up as they'd just come back in 30 turns and drop me, or some other civ would.

It was a fun 197 turns though, I've never played on Deity. What a painfully fun challenge :crazyeye:
 
Diplomacy Victory
Game date:1655AD
Turns played:241
Base score:850
Final score:1770
Time played:19:24:00


and one of more satisfying victories i must say. People knock diplo as being a bit gimmicky but it is often the only way to grab a victory in games you are wll behind. ANd games i am well behind seem to me to be the most enjoyable ones. You are on the edge trying to manipulate AI behaviour and fighting desperate war gainst technologically superior enemies (i dont mention against overwhelming odds, as this is given) and snatching any kind of victory is nice, especially in a game that was such a mess to start with.

I did like the fact it did not turn out as a standard early CB rush. I planned it that way but when i did not like the odds, changed tack. It was nice not to be labeled a warmonger and it did help me get lots of DoFs including few with Persia and two RAs with him.

I was amazed how powerful they are on Deity, once the AIs are in full swing. Early ones were lacklustre, but i pushed culture hard to try to get the 50% policy before my last three matured and got it with 1 turn to spare. And those were worth almost entire late game tech each. Money well spent

I ended up with one GS too many, double popped at the end with GE for UN which took 4 turns with 3 turn prebuild:workboat, triplane, Oxford.

But before i even got to build a UN i had to dodge some bullets:

when i left the previous update my frigates just got online and slowly ground roman coastal cities while keeping his unit count down. I ended up getting two Neapolis and Cumae before taking his peace offer of 273 gold. He had ghost bombers for last two turns and i knew i could not hold on to cumae when my frigates were being tageted.

I was hoping i will get flight and a triplane or two in time for next war. I knew he would not rest and he would replenish his tropps fast. I had no idea how fast, in less than 15 turns he was a monster again and soon after he Dowed. It would have been no problem if i could concentrate on him but i had an Egyptian army walking through my lands with confirmed plant to attack my cap :mad: and no one was taking my money to dow them :(

Spoiler :
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I have moved almost all of my high promoted XB and some melee leaving few muskets in roman lands which i rushed to Infantry at great cost. I knew he would snap up the cities fast with so many arties if i did not block access.

Spoiler :
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This is the second turn of the 2nd Roman war, this time started by him, after i cleared his AAs next to Cumae, and upgraded first two BSs, next turn he took it to zero hp, where it stayed for next five turns as he kept pouring it in adn I killed what was necessary, then upgraded another, and another frigate untill all i had was BS. I lost only one on turn one and it was the least promoted one. I did not realize how crucial that city was until i got oil with an RA and saw it was sitting on a 7 deposit and another 7 right at the border. It was my plan to start the war in few turns when i had BS, i was going to plump the GG on that tile anyway to prevent romans access to Cumae, putting them behind a river and connecting my two roman posessions, but i did not get a chance. It still worked out well, i got his oil, which must have put his ghost bombers ar 50% penalty and it funded some of my upgrades.
I went into full gold production selling all my GPT to Darius and Rammy to pay for it, thinking i will get my rammy gold back soon when he Dows and then Darius finally took my offer of about 400 gold and declared on Egypt. I am sure he did not like that troll city there either. And it was all my fault, after fencing off that egyptian settler until my cap grabbed Marble, i relaxed and did not steer it at least 3 tiles away and now i had borders with Egypt and a reason for him to fight me, just as my RA was about to mature.:cry:

I left the units there just in case as i was clearing Romans out with my untouchable BSs, and implementing the last part of comeback master plan. I had some coming back to do as Darius was really running away with it, allied with almost every CS on the planet, sitting on 26,000 gold, making 1200 per turn and not being my friend anymore and plotting to attack me.

Spoiler :
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Since i had no religion and no tithe, or happy boost i was dirt poor all game long, and knew i could not straight up outspend him. I decided to take over all of Rome save one city, and then before the vote sell it to Persia, use his 26k to buy his allies, Denounce him to gain favour with all other AIs i paid him to Dow earlier, and then Dow him to get my gpt back, which i will then use to get Boudica's 7k just in case she wanted those CS back and i wasnt about to fight her.

This is the extent of my conquest before i started selling:

Spoiler :
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First city was cheap 700 or so as it had no borders with him and AI wont pay top dollar for far away undefensible cities, but once he had that one, it assumes its his lands and paid between 3500-7000 for others.

This is after i fed him all my gpt before getting the rest of his cash with city sales

Spoiler :
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And here are the vote results:

Spoiler :
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As an interesting aside, i liberated Bismarck as a precuation but doing it on last turn (vote turn) does not count as you can see. Same as with CS u have to have his vote a turn before.

Will add demographics and geoplitical screens later
here they are:

Demographics:

Spoiler :
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Geoploitical situation:

Spoiler :
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Thakns for the game HR, I really enjoyed it and being able to choose VC. i know it is only workable on high difficulties as otherwise DOmination becomes default anyway. And as usual thans to everyone providing such deatailed writeups :goodjob:
 

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I tried giving away the 200+ gold I had and some resources, but they wouldn't accept. Both Rome & Persia only wanted the 2 non-capital cities I had. No way I was giving them up as they'd just come back in 30 turns and drop me, or some other civ would.

It was a fun 197 turns though, I've never played on Deity. What a painfully fun challenge :crazyeye:

What I meant was to pay him to fight someone else before they fight you. Best time I find is the turn they conclude one war. AI won't make up it's mind yet and once it does it's hard to change. They won't even take insane amount of gold to declare on someone they are going to declare anyway. I guess that's to give their units time to get in position.

Once you are fighting it does not matter if you have 200 or 2 gold. If they want all your gold and luxes u can sell all lux, spend the gold and still get the peace deal. But in order to get those favorable deals you need to be winning ;) AI does take notice of it's unit losses but more so city loses so you need to take some. I know easier said than done :lol:
 
After winning that immortal game, I felt obligated to try. I did a 4 city tradition opener, which would have made more sense of two of the cities hadn't been terrible: one on the marble and one down south on the pigs. The two whaling cities were great, though: I managed to get god of the sea and a religion.

Unfortunately, even knowing my only real advantage over the AI was it's tactical stupidity, I couldn't overcome my peacenik impulses, so just sat. There was a moment early where I think I could have done quite well with a war, but I just had visions of endless turns wading through AI forces and couldn't bring myself to do it. Since I quite clearly wasn't going to win, I played to survive: unfortunately towards the end Darius decided he was tired of looking at me. I thought I might hold out, but then I lost my oil, and so my battleships became useless. No wonders, no allies, two great engineers banked who never got anything to do.

Pacal only needed 1 more piece for his stupid spaceship, then I could have lost with dignity.
 
I didn't like the start position. So I moved south two times, and settled on the desert hill adjacent NW to the mountain range.
And it worked out quite OK... by turn 70, I had 3 cities, desert pantheon, hanging garden & petra wonders. With such a strong start, sub-200 victory was almost a given.
Then I got complacent and messed up. I had been at war with Persia almost from the start of the game (DOW'ed to steal a settler). Around turn 130 Persia got DOW'ed by Germany so I felt it was time to go for Persepolis. But by the time my minimum size force attacked, Persia had made peace. At first I did not notice Frankfurt had been taken, and that Persian army was still quite strong. So I started loosing units, a no-no when playing Deity. I had to spam some suicide scouts to take the heat off the verteran units, turn the tide and take Persepolis. I managed a favorable peace, but the downsizing of my army changed the course of the game - I had intended to take over Persia, but had to let it go.
The remainder of the game was routine, I went for diplomatic victory because I felt it was the quickest way to win, spammed research agreements and great scientists.

Game: Civ5 GOTM 62
Date submitted: 2013-06-23
Reference number: 29220
Your name: bc1
Game status: Diplomacy Victory
Game date: 1360AD
Turns played: 196
Base score: 1079
Final score: 2766
Time played: 10:11:00
 
I've just retired at turn 168. Hearing about other people's diplo victories makes me think I gave up too easy in how I played myself out of the game.

I posted my position about turn 130 in the middle thread. I was under attack by Darius and Rome and I was anticipating those horrible peace offers that ask for all of your cities, so I was thinking I was out of it, would slowly drift further behind in tech, etc. But I played on for a while. Darius offered a white peace. Nice surprise. I got a second great general. I'd planted my first as a citadel east of my Mt. Kailash city, grabbing a silver and marble. That positioned me to plant a second right on Persepolis' doorstep, and I experimented with whether I could take a 55 strength city with pikemen, a couple of muskets and crossbowmen. I couldn't. My workers set up a road system and some fortresses, but I my XBs could only put 7-10 hits on per turn each, and I could only get 3-4 of them to shoot. Slowly, he wiped out my forces. I got him down to yellow, but never down to red.

Somehow I got it in my head I had to conquer Persepolis to win this game. Maybe should have turtled instead and seen if I could pull off a diplo victory.

Really fun map, though. Nice mix of possibilities, deficiencies, challenges.
 
Question for people who "settled" for a diplomatic victory.

At what turn, roughly, do you conclude that it will be the only way to have a chance to win?

And what do you do, just then start stockpiling money for the turn 10 bribe (keeping up as much as you can on tech and defense, of course)? Prioritize money techs and buildings?
 
The strategy for each victory goal is quite different (science & diplo being the closest). If you want to finish early you have to plan early, especially on deity. Fumbling between victory goals costs a lot of time... In my game, I had decided (gambled) on diplo from turn one, because I think the odds of a fast victory are better with diplo.
 
Question for people who "settled" for a diplomatic victory.

At what turn, roughly, do you conclude that it will be the only way to have a chance to win?

I decided on going for Diplomacy before the game even started.

And what do you do, just then start stockpiling money for the turn 10 bribe (keeping up as much as you can on tech and defense, of course)? Prioritize money techs and buildings?

IMHO, getting the votes needed for the U.N. (which you typically do in the last 10 turns) is actually quite easy. So I rarely spend much time or effort on this.

The challenge is science output and hitting key science benchmarks (to eventually build the U.N.) in a reasonable amount of time.
 
Are you sure you would have gambled on that without prior map knowledge ?

I probably would not have (even more so since I'm not a big fan of Domination).

But I think it's the sort of "double down, all or nothing" strategy that some players, such as tommynt, may very well be willing to do.... ;)
 
Question for people who "settled" for a diplomatic victory.

At what turn, roughly, do you conclude that it will be the only way to have a chance to win?

And what do you do, just then start stockpiling money for the turn 10 bribe (keeping up as much as you can on tech and defense, of course)? Prioritize money techs and buildings?

I knew I was going diplo from the get go, seeing poor start and knowing a good diplo can be had at t 200. I don't worry about money in deity games, just having stuff to sell, in this case seeing how much cash AI had and especially Darius and how he had 100s of points of influence with all of them, I knew I needed expensive things and decided on Roman cities as best bet.

Proper diplo just needs fast science for UN, this was a survival mode as I knew Rome would not give up, and defensive wars against AI don't end well on deity.
 
t244, diplo win

tradition and rationalism
3 cities (Gibraltar and Whales/Silk)
produced one GE and five GS
no RA's
sailing, luxes, optics, philo, construction, education, machinery, astronomy, public schools, industralization, plastics
no wonders
tithe, +1food, swords into plows, +production, faster spreader

perma-war with Rome, kept bribing Darius and Bismarck to keep them busy

at the end sold all my GPT's, units and cities to Darius, bought all his city states (14) and declared war on him. talking about backstabbing
 
good game TyfoonTurk! just wondering, we're you able to establish and maintain "Friend" status with both Germany and Darius? Did you ever have to lend support to either one in order to keep them balanced?
 
neither Darius or Bismarck became hostile. at some point Darius wiped out Bismarck. during other wars between those two, the CS's took a city what led to a buffer between me and Darius.

i didn't conquer Rome, only fended them off to keep them behind the mountains
 
Interesting map. My game turned into a very safe science victory on T267. Used a style of opening I don't usually get to use(9-city liberty, skipped NC until >T100) but it resulted in a real powerhouse economy later on, hence the safety. Could have churned out nukes and dozens more units if an AI was running away too much :) Could have also been diplo or conquest but I guess I felt like building a spaceship. Wasn't planning on submitting it because I played it on and off for two weeks and crashed quite a few times(mostly when nothing much was happening, but still).

Thought I might have been done for at ~T45 because I'd planned on bribing bismarck vs darius so I could play greedier. Bismarck was having none of that immortal-fest though :p Turned out that 3rd city spot (desert hill, mountain, river) was more defendable than I thought.

Coastal start plus the lack of land luxuries was always going to make for a 'slow' start. Didn't meet anyone in the first few turns so I decided not to fight the slowness uphill with a more typical opening and instead went liberty to invest everything into expanding to get out of that hole. Screw those early libs and early NC - I needed those hammers right then. I'd intend on rubber-banding back with science once things were established. A downside is it's very difficult to compete for early-mid wonders but it was going to be slow anyway, so fine.


--More of the boring stuff--

Given the lux situation I followed what my analysis said and went a slightly funky liberty path(afaik) with collective rule first and pumped settlers, workers and other economic investments. I'm almost sure I went scout->monument->settler->shrine->archer->archer. Bought a worker, stole a worker.

Expanded out to 9 cities before running out of room. Rome took a nice 10th spot right on the western edge. This could have been faster but I was exploring the possibility of taking Persepolis. How did this go? Hint: he went tradition. Didn't matter much though. Became friends with Bismarck and beat down Darius over time.

MotG would usually be ideal for this kind of play but I couldn't pass up the excellent production from such an early God of the Sea. Later took ceremonial burial because of the rex and tithe because of the lack of religious competition on the continent. Would have prefered pagodas, again for expansion, but had to settle for mosques.

After expansion came universities. Then finally built the NC and went for astronomy to meet people. Because of the start I didn't really have a chance at the PT but it wasn't important, just nice to have. Went rationalism and science really bounced back as cities were pumping up.

T128 - Education not even done :p
Spoiler :

xAO9ewI.jpg


T165 - Persia starts giving Bismarck cities for peace right after DoW without german units there. Honestly...
Spoiler :

KCugw85.jpg


From here I just powered onwards with economy, continually investing in infrastructure and units. Public schools and research labs were fairly high priority but not exactly OCC timing ;) Was able to maintain 3-4 friends for RAs which really made the late game safe.

Warred a lot with Darius. In the industrial era Bismarck also DoWed for no ostensible reason (bribe maybe; his military didn't seem insane). Decided to divert to artillery to get some proper work done. Plastics can wait. Ended up taking 3 cities before getting a gpt peace deal. Darius being so worn down I turned immediately back to him to get Persepolis and those annoying citadels taking my land and blocking trade routes. Managed to secure the happiness to finish off persia. Zero cultural CSs really slowed down SPs this game.

Rome hated me pretty much the entire game. Kept a navy around to head-off that threat. The Celts ate up most Mayan land and spammed wonders and city-states with insane gpt. Funnily, Rome eventually DoWed 1 turn before victory and nuked Adrianople. Lost some battleships but it was no problem - Adrianople has bomb shelters. Launched my nukes back right into the middle of his landmass.

T207 - Late, but artillery is artillery. Taking cities is a nice benefit but not essential here.
Spoiler :

uEjEEwY.jpg


T267 - Spaceship launched
Spoiler :

RaUzEHB.jpg


Led the tech in the late game and abused engineers to get the Sydney Opera House, CN Tower and hubble. The first two were kind of important to finish rationalism in time but I actually ended up over-shooting to future tech when RAs came. Had a good 7-8 cities factory-ied and power-planted up by T250 ready for spaceships, nukes and other toys :D
 
I'm thinking of giving this one a go with BNW. It's the only GOTM that I've found with Deity level, any victory condition and continents.

Did anyone managed to conquer their own continent?

Edit:

Just noticed loading a G&K save uses the G&K rules, not the BNW rules, so I won't be playing this one.
 
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