Tunnel and AI

[LumenAngel]

I often use "Automate border patrol" with my dogs and some others units able to see thief, assassins and others nuisance.
In my last game, a city was on an island (4cases) with a tunnel (1 case) to go to continent. None of my dogs use the tunnel... Same with automatic workers. An exception : an automatic worker used a tunnel when another unit was on the case of the tunnel.
Worst : when this city was captured, none at the ennemies used this tunnel, they all load in a ship, and unload the next turn...

It's the second times I see a problem like this, the fist time, I wasn't sure, but now, with an map with lot of island, it looks weird. Is there a problem with tunnels?

 

[JosEPh_II]

Post save game and screen shots plus explanation of what is going on and put in v 24 Bug/Crashes Thread (It's a stickied thread).

JosEPh

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Is there a problem with tunnels?

There are many problems with tunnels. For example the AI will off load its armada into your tunnel mid ocean and attack you through it

 

[Hydromancerx]

There are many problems with tunnels. For example the AI will off load its armada into your tunnel mid ocean and attack you through it

That sounds more like a bridge than a tunnel.

 

[Galacticat42]

There are many problems with tunnels. For example the AI will off load its armada into your tunnel mid ocean and attack you through it

Well it is possible to prevent that by making the tunnel require a promotion that is granted to any unit that stands on the piece of land that sits next to the tunnel and take it away when the unit moves away from the tunnel.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Well it is possible to prevent that by making the tunnel require a promotion that is granted to any unit that stands on the piece of land that sits next to the tunnel and take it away when the unit moves away from the tunnel.

There must be a better way. I was waiting for a mod that said it was going to have sea lanes, tunnels and air routes as well to see what they came up with.

A possible better test would be put on the disembark and embark buttons and functions to not allow such movement.

By the way none commented on the idea to restrict tunnels to coastal areas for work boats. Meaning you need constructor ships for ocean tunnels.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I didn't comment on it myself because I didn't like the idea.

IMO the biggest problem I'm having with tunnels right now is that they are allowing units from the ocean to attack units in the tunnel and vice-verse. The answer to that, and probably more little glitches, would be to establish, in the dll, that when a land unit is on a water space and is NOT cargo, then it cannot be attacked by water domain units (I think even air units should be denied ability to attack in this case) or by land domain units that are currently considered cargo. I could almost address this with what I know now but I'm not 100% confident on that. That'd be something for me to put on 'the list'.

Addressing the automation issue would require looking at the automation coding and I can't say I have any familiarity with that region. I don't automate too often but I do realize there's some pathing issues with tunnels at times and maybe it could be addressed from this section, which is firmly something for Koshling to look at I think. But I also think some of those problems have been around since before his pathing changes so I'm pretty sure some of it must have to do with plot domains guiding the ai decision making incorrectly where tunnels are concerned.

It'd be nice if they could be improved a great deal.

Someone mentioned something earlier about a bridge. I'd like to see bridges. I can see them being earlier than tunnels but only allowed in coastal waters and only where it can connect to another plot of land on the opposite end one space away. Additionally, I'd think that units on them could be attacked by air unlike tunnels. However, I'd like it if bridges could be destroyed underneath ground troops, making them have to swim to shore or die like when boats go down next to a coast.

For that matter, perhaps spies should have a mission to destroy tunnels, with the effect of killing any land units on the space destroyed.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I didn't comment on it myself because I didn't like the idea.

IMO the biggest problem I'm having with tunnels right now is that they are allowing units from the ocean to attack units in the tunnel and vice-verse. The answer to that, and probably more little glitches, would be to establish, in the dll, that when a land unit is on a water space and is NOT cargo, then it cannot be attacked by water domain units (I think even air units should be denied ability to attack in this case) or by land domain units that are currently considered cargo. I could almost address this with what I know now but I'm not 100% confident on that. That'd be something for me to put on 'the list'.

Not too far down your list I hope.

Addressing the automation issue would require looking at the automation coding and I can't say I have any familiarity with that region. I don't automate too often but I do realize there's some pathing issues with tunnels at times and maybe it could be addressed from this section, which is firmly something for Koshling to look at I think. But I also think some of those problems have been around since before his pathing changes so I'm pretty sure some of it must have to do with plot domains guiding the ai decision making incorrectly where tunnels are concerned.

It'd be nice if they could be improved a great deal.

I have not seen any pathing problems with tunnels. The autobuild builds them on every coast tile and builds then in a straight line to any resource (and then builds the resource improvement) or populated land mass currently not connected.

Someone mentioned something earlier about a bridge. I'd like to see bridges. I can see them being earlier than tunnels but only allowed in coastal waters and only where it can connect to another plot of land on the opposite end one space away. Additionally, I'd think that units on them could be attacked by air unlike tunnels. However, I'd like it if bridges could be destroyed underneath ground troops, making them have to swim to shore or die like when boats go down next to a coast.

There is art somewhere for east-west and north-south bridges somewhere in the ROM:AND mods. They even work over two coastal tiles. There was trouble building them however since they can only go in those two directions. Not sure what happens if you put two next to each other.

For that matter, perhaps spies should have a mission to destroy tunnels, with the effect of killing any land units on the space destroyed.

What about flooding in the tunnels nest segments also.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Not too far down your list I hope.

I can take a look before my next update and see what I can do with this. Would fit with the theme of what I'm modding right now to fix that up.

I have not seen any pathing problems with tunnels. The autobuild builds them on every coast tile and builds then in a straight line to any resource (and then builds the resource improvement) or populated land mass currently not connected.

Then the problem is definitely in the automation AI codings. Not sure exactly where to look or how well I'd be at reading and correcting issues there. Again, I'd think that would be up Koshling's alley more than mine.

There is art somewhere for east-west and north-south bridges somewhere in the ROM:AND mods. They even work over two coastal tiles. There was trouble building them however since they can only go in those two directions. Not sure what happens if you put two next to each other.

Interesting... if you could cross two spaces with bridging that'd be neat but it'd certainly make the programming much more difficult. Surely Hydro's 3d skills could allow him to rather easily adapt H/V only to Diagonal arts as well? Hydro? How possible do you think this would be considering we're talking about 3d art that is NOT a unit?

What about flooding in the tunnels nest segments also.

Sounds about right to me