Tupac03 - Aztecs in Space

[Andronicus]

OK done some quick analysis
We can either go for rax, jag, then 4turrn jag settler factory 4.5-6.5
Or can go settler in 3 then 4 turn 3-4 SF, pumping out 3 settlers to occupy the rest of our first RCP4 ring then build rax followed by 2 turn jag / worker factory at size 5. At any time this can produce a 3 turn settler -> 4 turn jag / setter combo

The advantage of the first option is safety in terms of having a vet jag for each new settler, the advantage of the second is our next 3 cities will be established appros 5-7 turns earlier and hence can start their military builds sooner giving better long term results. A short period of jag / worker 2 turn factory will get us up in workers far quicker and more efficiently than peeling workers off our developing 1st ringers

In SP mode I would take the risk and go for the latter with potentially much better returns in 50 turns time. With the current war between America and Germany they may just ignore us long enough for this to work.

I'll await comment - going to work now - will play this evening

 

[Andronicus]

You could rename Teno to Sydney Andronicus. Those Aztec names are awful.

Might have to go with Canberra since it is the capital

 

[CommandoBob]

OK done some quick analysis
We can either go for rax, jag, then 4turrn jag settler factory 4.5-6.5
Or can go settler in 3 then 4 turn 3-4 SF, pumping out 3 settlers to occupy the rest of our first RCP4 ring then build rax followed by 2 turn jag / worker factory at size 5. At any time this can produce a 3 turn settler -> 4 turn

I like option 2 but I have a question:

What are barbarians set at?

 

[tupaclives]

@Andronicus - great we have 4 confirmed players!
Will still leave a spot open though. 5 players is ideal.

@Merlin - I was just working with comibnations (ie. aztec name, aus name, aztec name, aus name etc.)

@cities: I think that we should finish the current jag from Teno, then rax, settler then jag/settler combo. The alternative would be switch current jag to a worker, then rax settler --> worker --> jag --> settler then jag/settler combo.

@research: Finish alpha at max, then maths at surplus but fast as we can. ALso min run is 40 turns not 50

Barbarians are set at random but looks like we might have drawn none. Brisbane can't be a worker factory as it has no food bonus. However at size 3 it can do 5spt which is a jag every 2 turns. And it can slip in a worker every so often.

I would rather pop as few workers from Teno right now, getting as many settlers as quickly as we can from it, then switch it over to workers (at size 4 it can do a worker every 2 turns and stay at size 4 the whole time, at size 5 it can do a 2-turn jag/worker combo which will be great once we have taken up our (very limited) available land.

If this were my own game, I would settle on "2" without hesitation. It is almost connected and has two cities to act as a buffer between it and Germany. If its first build were a worker (not sure if this is wise at this level) then the first task for the worker would be to connect up the city. Which would let the current worker keep improving around the capital.

If the worker would finish before growth its a bad idea as you don't want to waste any shields at this very early stage.

 

[Merlin]

From the dot map, looks like "2" would be the fastest place to put a new city. Only one grassland would need to be roaded to connect it up. "2" is also risky because it is unexplored. "1" would be safer, but harder to connect.

If this were my own game, I would settle on "2" without hesitation. It is almost connected and has two cities to act as a buffer between it and Germany. If its first build were a worker (not sure if this is wise at this level) then the first task for the worker would be to connect up the city. Which would let the current worker keep improving around the capital.

I'd settle "1" first. It's towards the others and we might lose that spot if we don't settle that first. "2" and "3" can be backfilled later. Let's first grab as much land from the north as possible.

 

[tupaclives]

That was precisely my reasoning behind making it 1 (thats supposed to be my suggested order of settling), we might not get another chance.

I'd also like to have 2 or 3 extra settlers than we have places to settle as if America and Germany are still at war then theres a good chance that they cities will be auto-razed, thus freeing up land for us to settle in.

 

[Ansar]

lurker's comment: Dang, the aggression is probably set to Most Aggressive. Poor americans.Good luck.

 

[tupaclives]

You can't modify the aggression setting in vanilla. BTW Ansar, there is a free spot in the roster, any interest in joining?

 

[Andronicus]

Have played 20 turns

We are still alive and at peace

America are 1CC

Report soon

 

[Andronicus]

Turnlog

Preturn 2550BC
Did detailed analysis of options of building settler first or jag first or rax first - bottom line settler first was far more efficient but ran risk of poor defences for next 10 turns. Decided to go for 3 setters (4 turn SF size 3-4).
Rename capital to Canberra

IT
Brisbane worker -> rax (I want vets please )

2510BC
B's worker -> forest chop (I want that rax and units soon)
lux to 10% whilst C size 4

2470BC
some exploring

IT
C settler -> settler

2430BC
lux back to 0

2390BC

IT
Germans building pyramids

2350BC

2310BC

IT
C settler -> settler

2270BC
Perth settled (No 1 pos on west coast) -> rax

2230BC

2190BC
Melbourne settled at No 2 -> rax
IT
Alphabet comes in
trade Germany Wheel (America dont have) for Alpha, 1gpt + 7gold
trade America BW + Mason for Alpha + Wheel
- we dont have horsies
- set research to Math @ min - 40 turns even at max

2150BC

IT
C settler -> rax (now have enough settlers for our first ring towns, noe we need to defend them
B rax -> archer (leave C to produce jags as it is only able to fit 10 shield units between settlers / workers)

2110BC

2070BC

2030BC
Adelaide settled in RCP4, but I later realised not identicle pos to Tupaclives' dotmap (I thought more usable land - after much worker activity - 1 SE, but after revealing more land I think the original site was better - sorry )

IT
C rax -> jag

1990BC

IT
furs connected
C jag -> jag - now 9spt with grassland mine due in 1 turn allowing 2 turn jag/worker factory
B archer -> archer

1950BC

IT
C jag -> worker

1910BC

IT
C worker -> jag
P rax -> archer

1870BC

IT
C jag -> worker

1830BC

IT
C worker -> worker
Iroquois build collossus

1790BC

IT
C worker -> jag

1750BC
not much happened on turns except a few exploring jags
1) south - due to explore far SW next
2) east - has returned from far lands to explore closer to home (NE)
3) northwest - currently trespasssing on American land (ooh I'm scared )
lux slider needs freq adjustment
combo SF or combo worker factory need close attention


At present Canberra is set up to run 4 turn combo jag / SF. It is at the start of the cycle with 9 shields due + 2 from growth (ie will build in 1 turn not the 2 shown), then runs 10spt - 3 mCow(6), mBG(2), mGrass(1), centre tile(1) for 3 turn settler completing at size 6.5. Cannot run size 5-7 because no duct. Req increase lux when C grows. Currently 0% at size 4, then 10% for 2 turns at size5, then 20% at size 6 for 1 turn, then back to 0% (if other towns allow it) when settler built


P, M & A are not yet connected
A has worker connecting road, P needs sev roads, M has worker ready to chop forest then road (that was my plan)

Research
Math due in 30 at min - in 26 at max with deficit, but this cannot be maintained when lux slider goes up

Diplo
America down to 1 city - has no money (if gets any we could charge it when renegotiating peace). I dont think it will last long, we could safely dow on it soon and look to give us more land to colonise (I put a couple of poss 2nd ring RCP7 towns in my dotmap below encrouching / in American territory in anticipation)
Paying Germans 1gpt which may keep them off our backs a little longer, but you can be certain they will come at us once America is gone so I suggest thinking about defendible lines and strategic goals. We could buy IW from Germany for all our gpt(7) and most of our gold - 55/62. This might be worth considering if we see them coming for us. Knowing where iron is could be big - both for swords and poss for pillaging theirs.

Military
7 jags, 1 archer
strong v America, weak v Germans
We are in a position to increase this substantially

Workers - only have 5 - I would like 3 or 4 more but I think we need settlers ASAP to get the ex-American land before Germany does.
I would be reluctant to put food poor cities on to workers unless unhappiness due to size becomes an issue, they take a while to grow back and reduced size reduces their production - ideally they should all be size 5


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Tupac03_1750_dotmap.JPG

Pink dots include 2 RCP7 to south in jungleland and 2 in spre room to north, red dots require dealing with Boston first

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads11/Tupac03_1750_BC.SAV

 

[CommandoBob]

I'm at lunch at work; the game is at home.

Q: Which city site to settle first, NW or NE? My thoughts, just from the posted JPG, is NW to stay out of Germany's way. If we built to the NE, I would want two jags, to handle to German assualt.

Q: If America hangs on long enough (say 10 turns or so), would we want to declare war on Germany to keep America around as a trading partner?

Q: Or should we declare war on America to help our own expansion?

Q: Melbourne and Adelaide focus on military the next turnset (only build jags and archers)?

 

[Ansar]

lurker's comment: Im not Deity material.

 

[Andronicus]

Q: Which city site to settle first, NW or NE? My thoughts, just from the posted JPG, is NW to stay out of Germany's way. If we built to the NE, I would want two jags, to handle to German assualt.

I would suggest northern towns first as we need to grab the land to north whilst we still have the opportunity and secondly the southern towns will not be useful until after a lot of worker action. Our first ring needs developing first.
I would go with NW first rather than NE as we need to wait until we have enough military to hold NE - maybe within next 10 turns? Its first build should be walls - it will be the focus of German attacks at some stage.

Q: If America hangs on long enough (say 10 turns or so), would we want to declare war on Germany to keep America around as a trading partner?

I dont think America will hold on - German archers can still be seen reguarly approaching Boston so I assume they are still at war (I have just put a jag by Boston to see whats happening there) - if they come with swords its goodbye America (both got IW in last 6 or 7 turns). Ideally I would prefer to have America around as German buffer.

Q: Or should we declare war on America to help our own expansion?

I lean towards this option - if so we could attack soon with perhaps 6 archers (having settlers ready to take 2 red spots before Germans would be good)

Q: Melbourne and Adelaide focus on military the next turnset (only build jags and archers)?

All 4 1st ring towns are preparing military (either building archers or completing rax. I would prefer if we had IW and they were building swords.
Canberra I have left to build jags (every second build either with settler when we want settlers like now, or with workers which we want all the time ) We already have 7 jags, I dont think we want more than what Canberra provides.
Note I havnt build any spears, a couple for the front line may be in order, although archers will be more of a deterrent to German aggression


We are 30 turns from Maths - if war with Germany could be delayed until we have cats I would feel much more comfortable (although I guess diety is about not feeling comfortable )

 

[Andronicus]

Roster
tupaclives
Andronicus - just played
CommandoBob - UP
Merlin - on deck
Open

 

[tupaclives]

I'm at lunch at work; the game is at home.

Q: Which city site to settle first, NW or NE? My thoughts, just from the posted JPG, is NW to stay out of Germany's way. If we built to the NE, I would want two jags, to handle to German assualt.

Settle to the north first, wherever we can really as there isnt much space. Towns can always be whipped and moved later but right now we need to occupy the space to prevent Germany founding new cities.

Q: If America hangs on long enough (say 10 turns or so), would we want to declare war on Germany to keep America around as a trading partner?

Never declare war on a deity AI if you can't deal with them. If we were to declare war on Germany I wouldnt want to be doing it just to keep America around, we would have to gain more than just the retention of a trading partner if we are to declare war on them. My preference would be not to do it until we have cats and swords, or at the very least swords.

Q: Or should we declare war on America to help our own expansion?

I think Germany will auto-raze plenty of cities freeing up a lot of space to the north without the need for us to join in.

Q: Melbourne and Adelaide focus on military the next turnset (only build jags and archers)?

Yes but get them to pop workers to keep happiness under control.
We want archers from those cities, forget jags, why would we build jags for anything other than mp duty? We don't have the cash for a mass upgrade to swords. Canberra can supply us with all the jags we need.
if we plan to go on the offensive before we get swords then 1 or 2 spears for each archer stack (stacks of 10 are preferable) would be in order.

 

[CommandoBob]

Long term

• Reach the stars. First.
• Avoid other Victory Conditions.
• Keep the AIs from winning.
  

Mid term

• Survive the upcoming German attack.
  
• Try to keep America in the game, if possible. This would be something nice, but not a have-to-do.
  
• Contact our neighbors, wherever they are.
  
• Leipzig looks like a good place for palace jump/Forbidden Palace later.

Short term

• Connect our cities.
  
• Play with the smart slider to learn Math faster (may not help, but need to check).
  
• Build a new city, name unknown, on the NW dot. One jag defender is Okay here.
  
• Build a new city, name unknown, on the NE dot. Several (well, at least two), defending units are needed. Spear, if nothing better. First build is walls, followed by rax/spear.
  
• Build a spare settler, two would be better, to take advantage of any opening caused in the German-American war. This would be the third settler built.
  
• Units from south head north to give the Kaiser a chance to think before he decides to attack.
  
• Buy Iron Working from America?
  
• Jag in the south explores the Southwest.
  
• Jag near Frankfurt hangs around to serve as spy or explores northward?
  
• Worker near Adelaide finishes road in 1 turn. Goes to help worker in forest next to Melbourne make forest road. Completes in 4 turns, not 6 and connects Melbourne two turns sooner. These two workers then join with the worker building the road to Perth, finishing that road and building new roads to our new NW city. Maybe send a jag to protect these workers.
  
• When the road to NW city is finished, road to American capital? (No, would make sense if America had any luxuries to trade, but Lincoln does not.)
  
• Worker near Brisbane finishes road in three turns. If bold, can continue road due north onto BG. If cautious, builds the road on the coast. Could use some protection.
  
  

Other Notes
These are my plans for these turns. They are not fixed and set in stone. Feel free to point out errors, offer improvements or ask questions.

Since these first turns are so critical, I may play only ten turns, post the log and save, get feedback, and then finish the turns.

 

[tupaclives]

Lets not worry about victory conditions right now, if you start worrying about that sort of thing then it will modifiy your game. The best way to win a specific condition is to play a regular game. We can play like any other deity game till we reach the late IA.

I would go for maths as quickly as possible at surplus, then for currency at the best surplus. Make sure to trade maths for techs, forget gold we want techs. Priority techs to get with math:

Iron Working
Writing
Map Making (if possible)

of course if America does die then we may only get IW for maths.
Also if you buy any techs from America for gpt make sure that they are actually going to survive for us to pay it in full. I have no intention of getting a rep hit, our reputation is golden.

 

[Andronicus]

I like your strategic analysis

Mid term

Survive the upcoming German attack.

Try to keep America in the game, if possible. This would be something nice, but not a have-to-do.

Contact our neighbors, wherever they are.

Leipzig looks like a good place for palace jump/Forbidden Palace later.

We should aim not just to survive but to gain vital territory and weaken Germans.
I think Americans are soon to be goners
- Germans were still sending archers into Boston's cultural zone last turn
- I sent jag in to check it out
We do want contacts ASAP, however MM is a way off yet - the overseas AI may find us before we find them
Too soon to consider site for second core - we have not fully explored the continent yet, but yes we will want a second core

Short term

Connect our cities.

Play with the smart slider to learn Math faster (may not help, but need to check).

As mentioned at end of my log this is not currently poss - roading more tiles will help as will growing our 1st ring towns

Build a new city, name unknown, on the NW dot. One jag defender is Okay here.

Darwin, Sydney and Hobart are calling for votes

Build a new city, name unknown, on the NE dot. Several (well, at least two), defending units are needed. Spear, if nothing better. First build is walls, followed by rax/spear.

I prefer not to build spears but we will need a few 2 defence units and we dont have swords yet

Build a spare settler, two would be better, to take advantage of any opening caused in the German-American war. This would be the third settler built.

If at war too dangerous to build in north, rather build 2 southern pinkdots.
Any northern builds must have units ready for them

Units from south head north to give the Kaiser a chance to think before he decides to attack.

Leave 1 unit in each town unless req 2 for MP with bulk of military ready at the front line - currently Brisbane and Perth, but when we have more units can extend to cover 4 RCP7 towns

Buy Iron Working from America?

Risky. I advise against any deal involving paying America 20 turns unless they are able to consolidate safely

Jag in the south explores the Southwest.

Jag near Frankfurt hangs around to serve as spy or explores northward?

There are 2 available, so can do both

Worker near Adelaide finishes road in 1 turn. Goes to help worker in forest next to Melbourne make forest road. Completes in 4 turns, not 6 and connects Melbourne two turns sooner. These two workers then join with the worker building the road to Perth, finishing that road and building new roads to our new NW city. Maybe send a jag to protect these workers.

I prefer not to stack when unroaded as each worker has to uses 1 movement accessing the tile. This uses more worker moves than singly until tile roaded (this is just my preference - I realise others differ and sometimes I do stack where improving a specific tile ASAP is required)

When the road to NW city is finished, road to American capital? (No, would make sense if America had any luxuries to trade, but Lincoln does not.)

Hmm, this would allow our military quicker access to Boston, no

Worker near Brisbane finishes road in three turns. If bold, can continue road due north onto BG. If cautious, builds the road on the coast. Could use some protection.

My plan was to road to NE pink dot to speed settler and entourage's arrival
NE pink dot is potentially a strong 2nd ring city and additionally speeds irrigation towards our core. Strategically a strong target - defend it well!

Hope you find my feedback not too nitpicking

 

[CommandoBob]

Also if you buy any techs from America for gpt make sure that they are actually going to survive for us to pay it in full. I have no intention of getting a rep hit, our reputation is golden.

If we make a tech/gpt deal with the Yanks and they die, we take a rep hit? That seems backwards.

Hope you find my feedback not too nitpicking

Not at all. At this level, the nits must be picked!

(Back story: In SGOTM9, I missed a milestone because I could not follow the high level discussion between the other players. There were 5 pages of discussion between the last turnset and mine. In all the discussion I missed some things and the Forbidden Palace was not built on time. After that, we all used this format to inform each other of what we were planning to do on our turnsets, and allowed time for feedback, corrections/comments and pointers/questions. It has been a big help to me, so I used it here.)

 

[tupaclives]

If we make a tech/gpt deal with the Yanks and they die, we take a rep hit? That seems backwards.

Yes and a major PIA too. However we need to be aware of it.