Tupac03 - Aztecs in Space

[Andronicus]

Just a quick comment (and I may have misinterpreted from your log)

You appear to be using swords for town defence.
Swords defending v horse or archers are only slightly better than 50/50, but attacking these 1 defence units are highly likely to succeed. Hence where ever possible suggest looking for swords to attack rather than defend.

Of course it would be nice to have a few more spears to use for defence and a few more horses to knock off those redlined horses, but then diety is about making do without all the units and improvements you want

Germany seems to have quite a few units west of the Rubyvale - Cairnes line at the moment making this a challenging battle. Well done holding fort so far.

 

[Andronicus]

I cant see what our cash in hand is like, but if we wish to take advantage of the disconection of iron and build 3 or 4 jags, then upgrade.

 

[CommandoBob]

Just a quick comment (and I may have misinterpreted from your log)

You appear to be using swords for town defence.

You are right; at Darwin I have been using swords on defense. They were available, so I used them. They have not been fortified all the time, which has made them more vulnerable to German attacks.

I did not realize swords would do so poorly against archers and horses. Or maybe I did, just did not expect the number of attackers and lack of healing time for the swords. The Human Wave is not just a Russian tactic (at least here).

The vArcher(s) in Cairns may attack the horse stack due west of it before the IBT. Two of those units are wounded and may retreat on the IBT. The other units in Cairns will keep it too tough for the Germans to attack, so once again good order German units head to Darwin.

What would be nice (I am dreaming here) would be a stack of 2 vSpears and 2 or more vArchers along the German path to Darwin, say on Mt. Darwin. These would be used to take potshots at Germans and reduce the strength of their attack. If they were on Mt. Darwin, it would make their path to Darwin longer.

Some vJags or even rJags would be nice to track down and kill German wounded and stragglers.

Cash in hand is 98 gold, +21 gpt.

@tupaclives: thanks for the info on border and the iron. This means we should have iron connected at the end of the next turn. Maybe. Will wait and see when we build the city. Curious to see if the tiles are picked up when we build the city or on the IBT when the border check is done.

 

[Andronicus]

What would be nice (I am dreaming here) would be a stack of 2 vSpears and 2 or more vArchers along the German path to Darwin, say on Mt. Darwin. These would be used to take potshots at Germans and reduce the strength of their attack. If they were on Mt. Darwin, it would make their path to Darwin longer.

Even 1 spear on Mt Darwin would be a thorn in the German path

Some vJags or even rJags would be nice to track down and kill German wounded and stragglers.

Some vJags to upgrade to swords would be OK, not regs. Horses are better for mopping up stray / wounded units

Cash in hand is 98 gold, +21 gpt.

Thats enough for 2 jag upgrades and 1 per 2 turns - suggest maybe 4 jags

 

[CommandoBob]

Disclaimer
I have been able to only play one more complete turn, so I will post the save and skip the remainder of this turn set. I have had too much fun to quit, but I cannot hold up the game any longer.

The save is at the end of this post.

The Game
************** save and post turns so far **************************
Per CivAssistII Germany is a Republic and has been all this turnset.
Germany is also in the Middle Ages. Not good.
France is still in Ancient Times and still in despotism.

Germany will not talk to us.
France will trade Currency for Map Making.
For Construction, France was WM, Currency, 82 gold (of 98) and 2 gpt (of 21).
For Map Making and Construction, France will accept WM, Currency, 81 gold (of 98) and 19 gpt (of 21).
Think we can do better later.

In earlier posts I mentioned I was surprised about the lack of defense of Swordsman. I thought it defended with 3, but it is 2. Either I have played the Romans too much, with the Legionnaires, or the defense value changed from Vanilla to PTW. Either way, I was wrong.

Wake vArcher in Cairns to take a potshot at the German horses between Cairns and Darwin.
vArcher vs. rHorse, we redline horse, lose and promote Horse to Veteran 2/4. (15 of 20)

Wake rJag in Canberra and send to Cairns, makes 3 defenders in Cairns.
Hit Enter.

Wounded Germans retreat to Mt. Darwin.
One archer attacks our good eSword in Darwin and loses (16 of 21).
German movement towards Darwin, no other German attacks.

Perth vHorse -> vSpear, 4 turns.

06 0230 BC

Trading
Other
We found IronHorse City on the pink square, grows in 10, walls in 10.
Iron and Horse are both reconnected.

Fire the clown in Perth, now 1Happy, 2Content, 1Unhappy.
Move 3 workers towards Down Under Slumber, to build the road to connect it in one turn and then move back south.
Settler to New Boston.
New vHorse from Perth to Darwin.
Canberra at size 3, switch to vSword in 4. May switch back to settler, but force of arms seems critical just now.
Perth is cranky, buy the clown back.

Battle of Darwin Round 5
Catapult in Cairns hits a German horse next to Darwin.
vHorse vs. rHorse, green wins flawlessly! (17 of 22)
vHorse vs. rHorse, blue is redlined and promotes 2/4. (17 of 23)

Five defensive units are in Darwin to deal with an expected attack of one German horse. In Darwin are two wounded eSwords, 4/5 and 3/5, one vSword, one vHorse and one vJag.

game save.

​

[IBT]

And the save is >>Here<<.

 

[CommandoBob]

Tech Trading

I did not take the chance on a trade with France. We could get Map Making and Construction for WM, 81 gold (of 98) and 19 gpt of 21 gpt. Seemed a bit steep and would not leave with only a little bit of cash flow. This was in 250 BC; in 230 BC we had better cash flow but did not talk to France.

Battle Map 230 BC

The German War
Darwin is still the city the Germans love to attack. Darwin should survive this IBT. It has five defenders and at most two fully healed units that could attack. Darwin’s walls are built this IBT, so our defenders get 50% better when they defend.

Darwin, Rubyvale and Cairns are fairly strong. Our three new cities are not. Of them, Down Under Slumber is best defended with an archer, spear and catapults. IronHorse City is defended by a vJag and New Boston has no defensive units.

On the next turn I was considering sending a spear from Rubyvale to Mt. Darwin.

However, several of our healed units in Darwin can head west to beef up these defenses. I think it will be about three turns or so before Germany heads to IronHorse City or Down Under Slumber. In those three turns all our current wounded would be healed and we would have some reinforcements also.

I have seen only a few veteran units from Germany. Most have been regular. I would like to think that the onslaught might slow down as Germany slows its city making and has fewer freebie units to throw at us.

No German swords, either.

Workers
There are three workers heading towards Down Under Slumber. These units are not on auto move. My plan was to drop these three onto one tile and complete the road to Down Under Slumber in one turn and then send the workers back south.

Three workers will finish clearing a jungle tile this IBT; in one more turn they could make a road.

 

[Merlin]

I got it and will play this evening. What do you guys think, should we trade currency to France now, they might buy it from the Germans and we lose our opportunity.

 

[Andronicus]

I got it and will play this evening. What do you guys think, should we trade currency to France now, they might buy it from the Germans and we lose our opportunity.

I suspect Germans lack currency as well (well they did at end of my turnset)
My thought was to get peace ASAP with Germany, trade monopoly currency to both Germany and France, aiming for only small gpt payment if any to France, but large gpt payment to Germany, then get Germany to re-dow.
This does run the risk of Bismark deciding to keep his gpt payment, but so far he has beeen very predictable in dow-ing us at slightest provocation (certainly on being asked to remove forces from our territory).
In this worst case scenario we have at least purchased a tech for our gpt
Getting France into alliance v Germany would prevent them trading, but would lock us into 20 turns removing option of peace treaty if things get too tight (the AI will negotiate peace treaty favourably if we have taken a few of their towns even though they may be about to get ours) The short wars then favourable peace treaty has worked well for us so far.

 

[Merlin]

In Bob's notes he says that Germany is in the MA, so they have currency.

 

[Andronicus]

In Bob's notes he says that Germany is in the MA, so they have currency.

you're right
makes it important to trade immediately with France and peace with Germany can wait until it suits us

 

[Merlin]

Pre-flight check: Contact Joanie, trade Currency, WM, 21gpt and 27 gold for MM and Construction. Change clown in Perth to scientist, drop science to 0%. Wake a sword and kill a horse, with a jag kill a horse. Switch some tiles, switch New Boston to cat, update a jag in Melbourne to a sword, TAK to harbour, Tarzana to harbour. (2-0)

IBT: Germans load a galley up north

Turn 1 (210BC): Adelaide horse->horse, Darwin Walls->Barracks. I switch Brisbane to harbour, we should get a trade route with France and trade furs to ivory. eSword redlines a horse, it retreats. Another eSword kills it, no leader. Horse doesn't do a scratch to an archer, but retreats. Jag kills redlined spear. Need a taxman in Adelaide as it grow to size 5. Change Adelaide to settler. (4-0)

IBT: Two horses and an archer die attacking Darwin.(7-0)

Turn 2 (190BC): Melbourne spear->worker. Every turn I bombard all the Germans I can. Now that the road to Down Under Slumber is ready, I bring 4 cats down to the killing zone. Kill redlined horse with a jag. Germans still not willing to talk. Change some tiles to get more gold and change IronHorse from walls to cat. It shouldn't get attacked.(8-0)

IBT: Germans land an archer and a horse in forest near Broome!

Turn 3 (170BC): Canberra sword->market, we need to build some infra, war might be over soon. Horse kills horse, Horse I followed the galley with kills the landed archer going elite! Archer from Broome retreats the landed horse, jag finishes it. Two eSwords kill archers, no leaders. Horse kills archer. Germans won't talk. (14-0)

IBT: I guess taking the cats out of Down Under Slumber was a mistake as a horse from Bonn kills our fortified ELITE spear, and another horse kills our archer and Germans burn Down Under Slumber!!! (14-2)

Turn 4 (150BC): Bris harbour->horse, Perth spear->spear, Melbourne worker->horse, Cairns sword->temple, Townsville spear->worker. Temple in Cairns is for widening the borders there. Sword dies to a horse on grass... Elite jag kills redlined spear. France has CoL! And we can trade!! Furs to France for Ivory, WM and 29gold. I could buy CoL with all our treasury, decide to do it and set research to republic. Germany talks and they will give money for peace, so I take peace and WM, 1gpt and 26gold from the germans. I SEE BORDERS TO OUR SOUTH! Switch Canberra to galley, ready in two. Perth and Bris to settlers. (15-3)

IBT: zzzz

Turn 5 (130BC): Create a blockade to stop german settlers. Darwin to court. Start chops to hurry the court. Melbourne to market.

IBT: zzzzz

Turn 6 (110BC): Canberra galley->market, Adelaide settler->market. Settler in position to settle pink dot.

IBT: Germans start Sun Tzu, so they have pikes.

Turn 7 (90BC): Settle Alice Springs->worker. Hmmm, we are paying a lot of money to France, tell Joan to get off our lands -> she says they'll leave.

IBT: zzzzz

Turn 8 (70BC): Townsville worker->worker. Galley in position, we will meet the foreigners the next turn! Switch Canberra to duct.

IBT: zzzzz

Turn 9 (50BC): Bris settler->market, Perth settler->market. We contact India!! They don't know anybody, but know REPUBLIC! First sell Math to India for 210gold and 5gpt. Then sell Construction and Lit for Republic, WM, 7gpt and 7gold. Gandhi has lots of land! Republic to France for Poly, WM and 3gold(all they had). We're in the Middle Ages!! Germany knows Feudalism and Engineering so set research to Monotheism. We are not going to research it so I shut the research. I don't sell contacts yet, we might benefit for trades. Egyptians have The Great Lighthouse, so these guys aren't going to meet. I don't revolt, and quit here. The game is in a turning point now, and I don't want to make any big decisions.


These were nice turns. Losing a city when fortified elite spear lost to a horse was bad. And not getting a leader with this many elite wins and being militaristic wasn't nice. But meeting Gandhi and doing some trading really helped.

There are three workers going to the gems mountain. We need luxes for republic. We are religious, so no anarchy.

 

[Merlin]

And the game and a screenshot:

 

[CommandoBob]

Good turns Merlin! And 15-3 in the Win/Loss columns.

IBT: Germans land an archer and a horse in forest near Broome!

They did this to me also on my few turns. I think we need to give them a taste of their own medicine, the next time we go warring with Bismarck.

What next? (Rambling thoughts from the top of my head)

The land of India is very inviting. Almost a circle of land, with room for two good RCPs and space for lots of cities. Very nice indeed.

But -
to take out India we have to keep forces on hand to deal with Germany. We have a short border with Germany and the terrain is in their favor. Also, they have tried two times to take Broome by sea, which would indicate that a land border alone will not keep the Krauts out.

I think that Germany is a bigger threat than India, and a closer threat also. It needs to be dealt with first.

We need to resettle our lost city in order to take out Bonn. A city on the hill just east of Rubyvale, currently in no-mans-land, would help to breach the German geological defenses. A city on the coast SE of Bonn and next to the river would allow us to land units in the German's backyard.

Capturing Nuremberg would really open the pathway to the German interior and Berlin.

Is it too soon to consider the Forbidden Palace and planning a palace jump into Germany?

 

[tupaclives]

Great turnset Merlin, excellent trading! Just one question though...

Germany knows Feudalism and Engineering so set research to Monotheism.

I assume you mean that Germany knows Monotheism as well? They would have got it as their free tech when entering the MA, in vanilla there is no random tech selection. Going into the MA it is ALWAYS monotheism, into the IA it is ALWAYS nationalism and going modern it is ALWAYs rocketry.

I can't look at the save now so I'll just pose some questions for the team.

1. Do we want to start building the FP now?
2. If so, where?
3. Do we want to revolt to Republic now?
4. Who do we plan to go to war with next?
5. What are our thoughts on research?

 

[Ansar]

lurker's comment: For the questions.

1. Do you need the FP?
2. Since this is vanilla/ptw, then build it away from the palace because it will have zero corruption.
3. If you are not at war and can expect mostly victories, yes, switch would be good. Make sure you dont go over the unit support limit.
4. I dont know because im not in this SG.
5. I dont know because im not in this SG.

sorry if the help was unnecessary.

 

[Merlin]

Great turnset Merlin, excellent trading! Just one question though...

I assume you mean that Germany knows Monotheism as well? They would have got it as their free tech when entering the MA, in vanilla there is no random tech selection. Going into the MA it is ALWAYS monotheism, into the IA it is ALWAYS nationalism and going modern it is ALWAYs rocketry.

This is is what surprised me too. They DID NOT get Mono. I also thought that in vanilla you ALWAYS get mono, but no, not this time. I don't know why....

 

[Merlin]

1. Do we want to start building the FP now?

Yes, the sooner we get it the better. The cumulative effects mean, that the sooner you build it, the more you gain.

2. If so, where?

I chopped towards Courthouse in Darwin. In republic, we can rush the rest with cash. Darwin is in a good central position to reduce lot of corruption. Later when we have conquered Germany, we can move the Palace there. I was hoping for a leader in my turns, I would have rushed the FP.

3. Do we want to revolt to Republic now?

I'd do it. It gives so much more food, shields and commerce. We do have a happiness problem, so hooking up the gems is a first priority. We have to run lux tax for some time, but we should still make more money in republic.

4. Who do we plan to go to war with next?

I'd say that Germany is still the only feasible target. I'd build some infra (esp. markets) first, then military and build a city on hill by the river 3 SE rubyvale and start the attack there. We cannot capture German cities at this point, because they'd surely flip.

5. What are our thoughts on research?

We can't do research at this point. No libraries, deity AI's research too fast and we have a great opportunity to make deals when Germans and French don't know India. We could try to find Egypt and Iroquis with a suicide galley. If we accomplish that, we'd be in great position.

 

[tupaclives]

Agree with you on all points Merlin, I was leaning toward a Darwin FP as well, and the only reason I asked about our targets was that CommandoBob brought up the possibility of warring with India and I wanted to see what everyone else thought.

Consider this a got it. I'll play straight away.

 

[Andronicus]

Agree

FP in Darwin after court
Revolt to Rep now whilst not at war
Next war still v Germany
Suicide galley could reap big rewards

PS nice turns Merlin

 

[CommandoBob]

Forbidden Palace

Just building the Forbidden Palace is not enough. It should be part of a larger plan. That plan should focus on Germany, our closest neighbor and two time sparring partner. Germany is the most aggressive AI so far in the game and will not be easy to reign in. Germany is building Pikes now, so any attacking will need to be rather soon before the pikes are everywhere.

But before we get too focused on Germany we should evaluate the location of our capital. Is this where we want our primary core of cities to be? Or can we jump our palace to a better location and if so, where is that? And how do we get there?

Canberra is not the ideal capital location for one main reason: too much water and not enough land. If Canberra were located where Berlin is we could build on 20 of the 24 tiles of the first ring of RCP1. Where we are located we could only build on 10 of the 24.

If Canberra is a temporary capital, then the FP needs to be built what that in mind. Melbourne is our second most productive city, churning out 7 spt, followed by Brisbane, Adelaide and Cairns, all producing 5 spt. Brisbane is the most centrally located of the bunch, so it would probably give us the biggest bang for our buck once the palace jumped. Probably, but not assuredly.

Exactly where the palace would jump is an open question. Before we jump it, we should have at least four cities on some part of Ring to take advantage of the jump and to prevent the exploit. Or at least place our new capital someplace where four cites could already be on the Rings. This could mean razing or abandoning some cities and moving them a tile or so away.

How to do this, which will mean some warring, needs to be discussed in more depth.

Other Nuggets of Data

Current Military per CivAssistII

Settler- 3
Worker &#8211; 17 (1 slave)
Archer (Longbowman) &#8211; 3
Spearman (Pike) &#8211; 9
Swordsman (no upgrade) &#8211; 6
Horseman (Knights) &#8211; 3
Catapult (Cannon) &#8211; 8
Galley (Caravel) &#8211; 1
Jaguar Warrior (Swordsman) &#8211; 10

Total 59 units

Current Situation at
Despotism: +15 gpt
Republic: -6 gpt

(Income almost doubles, but we have 59 units to support.)

France has no iron. Hmm.