2metraninja
Defender of Nabaxica
I believe something really simple should be used - even 1 letter will do. Passwords are there to avoid loging in to the wrong nation, not to hold its own against brute-force hacker's attacks.
Turn 1-50
- Thread starter DaveShack
- Start date
I'd pass the obvious ones like "a", "cfc", "teamcfc" and "password". Other than that, I agree. It does not need to be bruteforce-proof. Guess-proof is enough. Besides, even mixed-case-alpha-numeric passwords are not really that bruteforce-proof with current computational power, unless they are really long.
I'd prefer a single (but non-related) word in our common language so that everyone can memorize it easily e.g. "tapeworm" or "asparagus".
I'd prefer a single (but non-related) word in our common language so that everyone can memorize it easily e.g. "tapeworm" or "asparagus".
Arkipeller
Ancient of Lore
I want our password to be "secret". In any way, this decision is just a minor stupidity that one of the major players should just "triumph through".
It's not like we are going to loose commerce because we got a weird password.
It's not like we are going to loose commerce because we got a weird password.
Caledorn
Emperor
If someone tries to brute-force any of the teams' passwords, I would have the IP address of the person who does that logged in my router. And that IP address can probably be crosschecked with the forums that are participating. So that would be a very bad idea for any team to try.
While the IT Administrator part of me is very much against using a simple password, I grudgingly concede that it's not needed to have a complex passord here.
On that account I think Aivoturso has the run of it. A simple easy word that anyone can memorize easily. I think "tapeworm" fits the bill pretty well, as it's properly disgusting.
Someone needs to log in and claim our Civ though, especially in light of the reload, so I'm just making a general proclamation that if someone does not login within the next 6 hours and set a password then I will do so. If I do so, I will not settle, of course. But I will move the warrior the same way it was moved in the previous save, as I consider it highly dishonourable to move the warrior differently now. I hope most of you agree with me on that.
The vote tally needs to be counted too soon, so we can get a final decision on where to settle. I really hope we have pressed "End turn" sometime within the next 12 hours from I press "Post reply" on this very post.
While the IT Administrator part of me is very much against using a simple password, I grudgingly concede that it's not needed to have a complex passord here.
On that account I think Aivoturso has the run of it. A simple easy word that anyone can memorize easily. I think "tapeworm" fits the bill pretty well, as it's properly disgusting.
Someone needs to log in and claim our Civ though, especially in light of the reload, so I'm just making a general proclamation that if someone does not login within the next 6 hours and set a password then I will do so. If I do so, I will not settle, of course. But I will move the warrior the same way it was moved in the previous save, as I consider it highly dishonourable to move the warrior differently now. I hope most of you agree with me on that.
The vote tally needs to be counted too soon, so we can get a final decision on where to settle. I really hope we have pressed "End turn" sometime within the next 12 hours from I press "Post reply" on this very post.
Votes have been tallied with Bananas winning by a very narrow margin. As I stated earlier, I'm concerned that some active players did not vote possibly due to tight schedule. So I won't declare that the decision is final. I leave that up for team or ultimately team captains. Though, I strongly believe this is the closest we can get to consensus with time we can spend on this without annoying fellow teams.
Caledorn
Emperor
Right. I logged in and claimed our civ. The password came to me in a moment of obviousness.
So, I hereby announce that our password is, to let us all remember the difficult times we faced when deciding where to settle our capital:
banana
(Yes, I am serious)
So, I hereby announce that our password is, to let us all remember the difficult times we faced when deciding where to settle our capital:
banana
(Yes, I am serious
)
Caledorn
Emperor
On another note. I did not do anything except take two screenshots of the demographics which I am going to upload shortly in the demographics thread.
Caledorn
Emperor
Here's the demographics screenshots - sorry about the monitor size. I probably should have reduced the screenshot sizes when I uploaded them. At least I spoiler-tagged it.
Spoiler :
I have been asked to comment on why I have not voted on Capital location.
The reason is because I am not qualified to make such a decision. As I have said before, important decisions like this should not be decided by straight majority poll or simple (or complex) voting. What matters here is making the BEST decision, not the most popular decision.
This decision needs to be made by the people who are doing the testing, because they are the only ones who know what they are talking about. The rest of us can chime in with our gut instincts and such and make our thoughts heard, but in the end we need to trust the people who have done the work to make the decision. I know bistrita and vranasm have tested extensively and I think bcool has also done several tests.
I am most concerned with the opinion of those guys who have done the testing and all of them are saying SIP or banana.
So what I would personally like to see, is for the guys doing the testing to come to a UNANIMOUS decision about where we settle and I will support that, because its an informed decision. The most important immediate thing has to be getting a second city in a prime location.
The reason is because I am not qualified to make such a decision. As I have said before, important decisions like this should not be decided by straight majority poll or simple (or complex) voting. What matters here is making the BEST decision, not the most popular decision.
This decision needs to be made by the people who are doing the testing, because they are the only ones who know what they are talking about. The rest of us can chime in with our gut instincts and such and make our thoughts heard, but in the end we need to trust the people who have done the work to make the decision. I know bistrita and vranasm have tested extensively and I think bcool has also done several tests.
I am most concerned with the opinion of those guys who have done the testing and all of them are saying SIP or banana.
So what I would personally like to see, is for the guys doing the testing to come to a UNANIMOUS decision about where we settle and I will support that, because its an informed decision. The most important immediate thing has to be getting a second city in a prime location.
Caledorn
Emperor
Edit: I misclicked and hit submit before I was done typing. Here is the complete answer:
I agree with that, Sommer. But: Do we wish to risk the ire of the other teams by spending more time on this decision?
I really hope we will not end up being the last team to press end turn..
There is an obvious consensus that banana and SIP are the best spots, with the testers leaning on banana. In the interest of supporting the testers, as per what you have said in your above post (and if it is necessary to get a majority vote on this), I am willing to change my vote to banana to make a majority vote for it. But I am not truly qualified either, compared to the testers who are Emperor+ level players. I trust vranasm, bistrita, bcool and slaze of course to know what they're talking about - but I also trust 2metra. The four first mentioned have said they consider the banana-settling is a better choice than SIP, while 2metra has said he prefers SIP.
I agree with that, Sommer. But: Do we wish to risk the ire of the other teams by spending more time on this decision?
I really hope we will not end up being the last team to press end turn..
There is an obvious consensus that banana and SIP are the best spots, with the testers leaning on banana. In the interest of supporting the testers, as per what you have said in your above post (and if it is necessary to get a majority vote on this), I am willing to change my vote to banana to make a majority vote for it. But I am not truly qualified either, compared to the testers who are Emperor+ level players. I trust vranasm, bistrita, bcool and slaze of course to know what they're talking about - but I also trust 2metra. The four first mentioned have said they consider the banana-settling is a better choice than SIP, while 2metra has said he prefers SIP.
How about altering a random map to match the known position (not the tundra borders of the test game) and playing it out to 100 or so turns (or at least beyond the point where we have all techs to use all tiles to full potential) from both start locations, using the optimum strategy for each position? Can that be done in a reasonable amount of time? What it would show is which position is better for a longer term, all other things being equal. It doesn't make sense to go longer on the previously posted test game because the snowball size is limited to too small an area for a longer timeframe sample.
I played a different save (random surroundings with our start superimposed) to about turn 60 on SIP and bananas. While I think I learned a little playing the SIP one first, and thus my bananas try was somewhat improved by that knowledge, I attempted to play to the strengths of the two tiles, on my map.
Bananas was a clear winner, even for a fairly low skill player like me. It grew to higher population faster, teched a little faster, and pumped out more workers and settlers in the same amount of time. The only thing I didn't like about my bananas run is that my worker ran out of things to do and had enough time to farm one of the floodplains before pottery was ready. In fact, IIRC it started that farm before the wheel was even available! SIP had more early actions available -- it farmed both corn and bananas and roaded a couple tiles before pottery.
We better hope our luck runs better than my test games. I decided to risk an unprotected settler in another attempt, and lost it to animals. The barbs are thick, even on the normal setting. I had also abandoned one after barbs took a defended town at about turn 74 or so. Evidently more military is required.
I know I asked for 100 turns, and fell pretty far short of my own goal, but it's getting late and I don't have enough time to try again tonight with proper military.
Bananas was a clear winner, even for a fairly low skill player like me. It grew to higher population faster, teched a little faster, and pumped out more workers and settlers in the same amount of time. The only thing I didn't like about my bananas run is that my worker ran out of things to do and had enough time to farm one of the floodplains before pottery was ready. In fact, IIRC it started that farm before the wheel was even available! SIP had more early actions available -- it farmed both corn and bananas and roaded a couple tiles before pottery.
We better hope our luck runs better than my test games. I decided to risk an unprotected settler in another attempt, and lost it to animals. The barbs are thick, even on the normal setting. I had also abandoned one after barbs took a defended town at about turn 74 or so. Evidently more military is required.
I know I asked for 100 turns, and fell pretty far short of my own goal, but it's getting late and I don't have enough time to try again tonight with proper military.
2metraninja
Defender of Nabaxica
This is what my inner instinct says - that SIP will be better capitol in the long term. SOB can have slight edge in food and commerce, but it relies on presumption we will want to put our city2 and city3 in such a manner to help the capitol, where the real game may require us to take advantage of other city locations and opportunities which arise.
With such close vote I am sure we cant go wrong with either capitol. If there is time and will from people making the "real world" test up to turn 100 and give results, we would be able to make much more informed choice.
Otherways I would go with SIP based on my instincts to bet on something sure.
bcool
Deity
The 2nd city location seems pretty clear right now. We can settle on the river (3S of the settlers initial location) to the south next to the wheat so the cows will also be in the BFC of the 2nd city. This city will help bananas. (or SIP capital)
However, regardless of where we put our 2nd and 3rd city, bananas can get settlers there faster and thus get more of their benefit.
(What I mean is that I think bananas is better regardless of where we put our 2nd and 3rd city since it out grows and out produces the SIP capital). The bananas capital even without the 2nd and 3rd city settled close by can still get plenty of commerce (work the same number of riverside cottages) with the same food surplus as the SiP capital,
A great idea, but I'm afraid we're running out of time. With original turn timer we'd have about an hour left or so unless I miscalculated.
@Sommers, I do also prefer unanimous decisions over votes. However, concerning our capital we (nor our experts) have not reached one in almost three weeks we've known the lay of the land. So I unfortunately have no reason to believe that we'll reach one if we keep postponing the decision. IMHO, Caledorn has a very good point. Postponing the decision any further may cost us dearly in diplomacy.
vranasm
Deity
if you can get your first 3 settlers quicker then other position you will clearly win in the end no matter what.
the difference could be up to 6 turns for bananas x SIP in the case of 3rd city
when I read the Plastic Ducks games in SGOTM they always choose the capital that will bring quickest 4-cities empire since it's breakpoint of maintenance on Emperor level.
if we would compete in SP one team on bananas the other SIP, the bananas will clearly win no matter how you want to spin that at T200 the size 20 capital in SIP can be maybe better then bananas, or at T150 you can finally improve bananas making it 5F yield tile, missing out on 150 turns of working deer which is 6 yield tile...
I am really disappointed with the ongoing thought that "long term" is better then the clear advantage of short term and even the long term is only very slightly better then bananas (like 5 commerce/turn on size 15?? come'on... city 2 3 turns quicker and city 3 5 turns quicker will for sure compensate! they can grow cottages for capital which would concentrate on expansion spam)
the difference could be up to 6 turns for bananas x SIP in the case of 3rd city
when I read the Plastic Ducks games in SGOTM they always choose the capital that will bring quickest 4-cities empire since it's breakpoint of maintenance on Emperor level.
if we would compete in SP one team on bananas the other SIP, the bananas will clearly win no matter how you want to spin that at T200 the size 20 capital in SIP can be maybe better then bananas, or at T150 you can finally improve bananas making it 5F yield tile, missing out on 150 turns of working deer which is 6 yield tile...
I am really disappointed with the ongoing thought that "long term" is better then the clear advantage of short term and even the long term is only very slightly better then bananas (like 5 commerce/turn on size 15?? come'on... city 2 3 turns quicker and city 3 5 turns quicker will for sure compensate! they can grow cottages for capital which would concentrate on expansion spam)
I would like to hear from bistrita on this. How much time do we have.
I wouldn't worry too much about taking a long time to do this turn. The reality is that the diplomacy on turn 30 or 50 or 100 will not be affected by us taking a long time on turn 0. Teams resent consistent turn-draggers. One long turn isn't going to break anyone's spirit towards us.
I wouldn't worry too much about taking a long time to do this turn. The reality is that the diplomacy on turn 30 or 50 or 100 will not be affected by us taking a long time on turn 0. Teams resent consistent turn-draggers. One long turn isn't going to break anyone's spirit towards us.
After hearing bistrita's thoughts and talking to 2metra, I can say that I continue to support SIP.
Arkipeller
Ancient of Lore
Btw: I am utterly sorry for spamming the game log. Caledorn and me are trying to find out why I cannot join the game without crashing the next second. I hope this won't make people too annoyed
So: How are we going to solve this issue with ties? Does it need that one of the players change their minds?
So: How are we going to solve this issue with ties? Does it need that one of the players change their minds?
DaveShack posted a solution to the crash to desktop problem (without uninstall-reinstall) on the UN thread.
Ties are decided by turnplayers, or diplomats in cases of diplomatic ties.
That's the best default rule until an official rule is drafted/agreed upon.
Ties are decided by turnplayers, or diplomats in cases of diplomatic ties.
That's the best default rule until an official rule is drafted/agreed upon.
