Bowsling
Deity
Pottery comes in somewhere in there. I think we're better off cottaging one of the floodplains before farming the banana. We lose 1 
and gain 3 
by doing so.
and gain 3 by doing so.
Turn 1-50
- Thread starter DaveShack
- Start date
cav scout
The Continuum
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2008
- Messages
- 2,630
Pottery comes in somewhere in there. I think we're better off cottaging one of the floodplains before farming the banana. We lose 1
I already timed it- Pottery comes in precisely after we finish farming the bananas in my plan.
So then we launch right into our first cottage 
(FYI The Wheel takes 10 turns and Pottery 11 turns with the bonus from Agriculture)
Bowsling
Deity
Oh, okay. Sounds like a plan, then!
slaze
Deity
Did some calcs, my start v. cav scout. My start is basically max food to pop five and build a settler. Heres the breakdown of capital only, and only from when they diverge, t21, to when cav scout hits pop 5
turn, pop, food, prod, com, notes
cav scout
21, 2, 7, 2, 10
22, 3, (5), 11(6), 11
23, 3, (5), 11(6), 11
24, 3, (5), 11(6), 11
25, 3, (3), 12(9), 11
26, 3, (3), 12(9), 11
27, 3, (3), 12(9), 11
28, 3, (3), 12(9), 11
29, 3, (3), 12(9), 11
30, 3, (3), 12(9), 11, complete settler
31, 3, 9, 2, 10, settler ready
32, 3, 9, 2, 10
33, 3, 9, 2, 10
34, 4, 7, 5, 11
35, 4, 7, 5, 13
36, 4, 7, 5, 13
37, 5, (6) 15(9), 14, begin worker
totals, 55pop, 55, 143
, 190
Pop 5 start
21, 2, 8, 2, 9
22, 3, 9, 2, 10
23, 3, 9, 2, 10
24, 3, 9, 2, 10
25, 4, 10, 2, 11
26, 4, 10, 2, 11
27, 5, (9), 14(5), 12
28, 5, (9), 14(5), 12
29, 5, (9), 14(5), 12
30, 5, (9), 14(5), 12
31, 5, (6), 15(9), 12
32, 5, (6), 15(9), 12, worker ready
33, 5, (6), 15(9), 12, complete settler
34, 5, (6), 15(9), 12, settler ready
35, 5, (6), 15(9), 12
36, 5, (6), 15(9), 12
37, 5, (6), 15(9), 12, 3/4 of the way done w/ worker
totals, 74pop, 55, 173, 193
again, this doesn't include any numbers from the second city, cav scout's southern city built t33, eastern t34 where pop 5 start has southern t35 eastern t37. In cav scout's the worker is roading all the way through t37 to keep from unhealth while pop 5 is free from t32. If he starts a cottage he finishes t38 and is only 3 worked cottage turns behind cav scout, but I might rather chop the forest on the city square in the south if we go there or start roading east or something else (by t30 we'll be much more informed)
Also, more remainders with cav scout. starting a settler at pop 3 has like 6 food in the bin, while pop 5 gets there with no remainder food and exactly finishes a warrior, and settler finishes with only one hammer extra.
city 2 is also neglected as the worker is busy w/ cav scout till t38, where pop 5 can get 14 extra hammers or whatever with the chop is and a road for the souther city by t38, most of the road in for the eastern city by then, or a cottage by t38. and It has the 2nd worker ready at t38 while cav scout is only one turn in.
Like i said before, growth is king at this point, cottages are for later
turn, pop, food, prod, com, notes
cav scout
21, 2, 7, 2, 10
22, 3, (5), 11(6), 11
23, 3, (5), 11(6), 11
24, 3, (5), 11(6), 11
25, 3, (3), 12(9), 11
26, 3, (3), 12(9), 11
27, 3, (3), 12(9), 11
28, 3, (3), 12(9), 11
29, 3, (3), 12(9), 11
30, 3, (3), 12(9), 11, complete settler
31, 3, 9, 2, 10, settler ready
32, 3, 9, 2, 10
33, 3, 9, 2, 10
34, 4, 7, 5, 11
35, 4, 7, 5, 13
36, 4, 7, 5, 13
37, 5, (6) 15(9), 14, begin worker
totals, 55pop, 55
, 143, 190Pop 5 start
21, 2, 8, 2, 9
22, 3, 9, 2, 10
23, 3, 9, 2, 10
24, 3, 9, 2, 10
25, 4, 10, 2, 11
26, 4, 10, 2, 11
27, 5, (9), 14(5), 12
28, 5, (9), 14(5), 12
29, 5, (9), 14(5), 12
30, 5, (9), 14(5), 12
31, 5, (6), 15(9), 12
32, 5, (6), 15(9), 12, worker ready
33, 5, (6), 15(9), 12, complete settler
34, 5, (6), 15(9), 12, settler ready
35, 5, (6), 15(9), 12
36, 5, (6), 15(9), 12
37, 5, (6), 15(9), 12, 3/4 of the way done w/ worker
totals, 74pop, 55
, 173, 193again, this doesn't include any numbers from the second city, cav scout's southern city built t33, eastern t34 where pop 5 start has southern t35 eastern t37. In cav scout's the worker is roading all the way through t37 to keep from unhealth while pop 5 is free from t32. If he starts a cottage he finishes t38 and is only 3 worked cottage turns behind cav scout, but I might rather chop the forest on the city square in the south if we go there or start roading east or something else (by t30 we'll be much more informed)
Also, more remainders with cav scout. starting a settler at pop 3 has like 6 food in the bin, while pop 5 gets there with no remainder food and exactly finishes a warrior, and settler finishes with only one hammer extra.
city 2 is also neglected as the worker is busy w/ cav scout till t38, where pop 5 can get 14 extra hammers or whatever with the chop is and a road for the souther city by t38, most of the road in for the eastern city by then, or a cottage by t38. and It has the 2nd worker ready at t38 while cav scout is only one turn in.
Like i said before, growth is king at this point, cottages are for later
Caledorn
Emperor
Since there isn't very many opinions about scouting except "counter-clockwise", and there has been two people voicing a move 9 as opposed to my suggestion of double 8, I'll just go log in and do a move 9 and post screens. 
Caledorn
Emperor
I ended our turn after moving and taking the screenshots.
Based on slaze's calculations I will weigh in my support to his suggestions btw.
Based on slaze's calculations I will weigh in my support to his suggestions btw.
vranasm
Deity
I start to be really confused by the way the economy of this team is going.
first we choose capital site which brings out worker 1T later, first settler on size 3 3 turns later and we now we even think that settler T34 being another 3 turns later then even the worse situation is fine?
I hope you realize we now plan to have city 2 whole 6 turns later then someone else going on bananas and building settler size 3.
what is even worse, on bananas can have 3 cities empire on T40 with 2 workers... we start to lag behind a lot by these plans (and from the demohacking it is evident that most teams settled "bananas")!
first we choose capital site which brings out worker 1T later, first settler on size 3 3 turns later and we now we even think that settler T34 being another 3 turns later then even the worse situation is fine?
I hope you realize we now plan to have city 2 whole 6 turns later then someone else going on bananas and building settler size 3.
what is even worse, on bananas can have 3 cities empire on T40 with 2 workers... we start to lag behind a lot by these plans (and from the demohacking it is evident that most teams settled "bananas")!
Calis
on time
Could you please add the resources in the screenies, so rookies like me can see what resources were uncovered by our warrior?
YossarianLives
Deity
The turn has flipped. I'd say 9 again is the best move for our warrior, then maybe 7.
@Calis, it looks like grass hill pigs 2 north of the warrior.
@vranasm, actually, based on the demohacking, I believe that 2 teams settled in place (Spanish Poly and us), 2 teams settled on Bananas (RB and Civfr), and the remaining five teams (who all settled on Turn 1) probably went to the equivalent of the PH site we were considering.
@Calis, it looks like grass hill pigs 2 north of the warrior.
@vranasm, actually, based on the demohacking, I believe that 2 teams settled in place (Spanish Poly and us), 2 teams settled on Bananas (RB and Civfr), and the remaining five teams (who all settled on Turn 1) probably went to the equivalent of the PH site we were considering.
YossarianLives
Deity
I know the game is down right now, but when it comes back up, could someone pop in just to take a screenshot of what our border pop revealed? It probably won't change any of our plans (we still want to work the FP, for example), but it'll give us a better idea of our surroundings, so it might have a slight impact on our scouting moves.
I haven't looked recently, but is our warrior circling so far out that there is black between what we know and the tiles being revealed, that won't be revealed by the normal exploration? I'd suggest avoiding that if possible since a critical resource could pop up in that hidden land.
Bowsling
Deity
I think we're going to circle him inwards by moving 7 after he hits the hill.
Caledorn
Emperor
Since nobody has objected violently (or at all actually 
) to me doing the scouting moves, I have taken the liberty of continuing to do it (Feel free to violently object of course if you'd like to do it instead 
). As far as I can tell we want to move the warrior 7 next turn, so now's the time to oppose it if you wish. I think getting the warrior back towards our capital is a very good idea personally though, so my personal vote is to move 7 (to keep on a hill, both for defense and best sight available).
) to me doing the scouting moves, I have taken the liberty of continuing to do it (Feel free to violently object of course if you'd like to do it instead ). As far as I can tell we want to move the warrior 7 next turn, so now's the time to oppose it if you wish. I think getting the warrior back towards our capital is a very good idea personally though, so my personal vote is to move 7 (to keep on a hill, both for defense and best sight available).YossarianLives
Deity
If anybody objects, I will violently advocate that you continue playing the turns and taking the screenshots. I don't think there's anyone else dying to do it right this moment.
Looks like there's a body of water 77 of the warrior. I think 7 next is still the right move.
Looks like there's a body of water 77 of the warrior. I think 7 next is still the right move.
bcool
Deity
slaze's numbers are very misleading because he isn't including the production of the 2nd city.
Delaying the 2nd city delays the 3rd city as well.
I would rather have the wheat improved for the 2nd city rather than a 2nd mine.
I argee with vranasm that delaying the settler and the 2nd city is not the right decision.
If we road the tiles to set up settling the 2nd city we could have 6 turns of the 2nd city's production.
If we settle near the wheat (and have trade routes) this adds a minimum of 12 food, 12 hammers, 24 commerce to slaze's numbers (more if we get the wheat improved)
I was wrong!
by the way I don't understand one of slaze's numbers.
What does 55 pop and 74 pop mean?
Okay I played out the games, grow out to 5 pop fast and settler at 3 pop
grow out to 5 pop fast
produced 3 warriors, settler, worker and 38/60 of another worker (total production is 243 hammers/food of stuff)
total food going to city growth 102 (22 + 24 + 26 + 28) and 2 in 2nd city
88 research into BW and 16 gold in the bank
2 turns growing a cottage
18 research at -2 gold per turn
crop yield 23 per turn
hammers 7 per turn
(can get 2nd settler out by T46)
grow out to 3 pop and build settler, then grow to 4 pop and build worker
produced 3 warriors, 10/15 of another warrior, settler, worker, and 39 into another worker (total production is 254 hammers/food of stuff)
total food going to city growth 92 (22 +24 + 26 + 7) and 13 in 2nd city
78 into BW and 16 gold in the bank
0 turns into a cottage
15 research at -2 gold per turn
crop yield 22 per turn
hammers 8 per turn
(can get 2nd settler out by T49 with 2nd city stealing the corn)
So to my surprise I think growing to pop 5 fast is competitive if not better than a settler at 3 pop...
growing to pop 5 has a bit more commerce and it has a bit more food (at the expensive of a similar number of hammers)
While is 1st settler is delayed compared to settler at 3 pop, it can get a 2nd settler out faster
It starts to develop a cottage significantly earlier (of course I could get a cottage in the settler at 3 pop test too if I delayed the wheat but that didn't seem to make sense to me)
So I'm good with growing to 5 pop fast plan
the rough worker plan I used was...
so corn farmed,
either grass hill mined or plains hill mined
then banana farmed
then cottage FP
then road down to wheat/cows city is the rough worker plan with a cottage on the river grass tile since you get a wasted worker turn to play with waiting for the settler to settle wheat/cows
I had the capital grow corn, FP, and farmed bananas (no mines worked until pop 5)
I attached my save files using the new test game (thanks for setting that up) and I didn't use buffy so people shouldn't have a hard time loading them if they don't have that mod.
I would rather have the wheat improved for the 2nd city rather than a 2nd mine.
I argee with vranasm that delaying the settler and the 2nd city is not the right decision.
If we road the tiles to set up settling the 2nd city we could have 6 turns of the 2nd city's production.
If we settle near the wheat (and have trade routes) this adds a minimum of 12 food, 12 hammers, 24 commerce to slaze's numbers (more if we get the wheat improved)
I was wrong!
by the way I don't understand one of slaze's numbers.
What does 55 pop and 74 pop mean?
Okay I played out the games, grow out to 5 pop fast and settler at 3 pop
grow out to 5 pop fast
produced 3 warriors, settler, worker and 38/60 of another worker (total production is 243 hammers/food of stuff)
total food going to city growth 102 (22 + 24 + 26 + 28) and 2 in 2nd city
88 research into BW and 16 gold in the bank
2 turns growing a cottage
18 research at -2 gold per turn
crop yield 23 per turn
hammers 7 per turn
(can get 2nd settler out by T46)
grow out to 3 pop and build settler, then grow to 4 pop and build worker
produced 3 warriors, 10/15 of another warrior, settler, worker, and 39 into another worker (total production is 254 hammers/food of stuff)
total food going to city growth 92 (22 +24 + 26 + 7) and 13 in 2nd city
78 into BW and 16 gold in the bank
0 turns into a cottage
15 research at -2 gold per turn
crop yield 22 per turn
hammers 8 per turn
(can get 2nd settler out by T49 with 2nd city stealing the corn)
So to my surprise I think growing to pop 5 fast is competitive if not better than a settler at 3 pop...
growing to pop 5 has a bit more commerce and it has a bit more food (at the expensive of a similar number of hammers)
While is 1st settler is delayed compared to settler at 3 pop, it can get a 2nd settler out faster
It starts to develop a cottage significantly earlier (of course I could get a cottage in the settler at 3 pop test too if I delayed the wheat but that didn't seem to make sense to me)
So I'm good with growing to 5 pop fast plan
the rough worker plan I used was...
so corn farmed,
either grass hill mined or plains hill mined
then banana farmed
then cottage FP
then road down to wheat/cows city is the rough worker plan with a cottage on the river grass tile since you get a wasted worker turn to play with waiting for the settler to settle wheat/cows
I had the capital grow corn, FP, and farmed bananas (no mines worked until pop 5)
I attached my save files using the new test game (thanks for setting that up) and I didn't use buffy so people shouldn't have a hard time loading them if they don't have that mod.
cav scout
The Continuum
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2008
- Messages
- 2,630
I tested Slaze's pop 5 plan out also and it's the winner. Everyone down or do people still want to explore starting a settler earlier?
PS- did anyone else look at the newest screenshot and think "wow, some of these river/terrain/resource patterns look familiar. Could other teams be closer than we think?"
PS- did anyone else look at the newest screenshot and think "wow, some of these river/terrain/resource patterns look familiar. Could other teams be closer than we think?"
Caledorn
Emperor
I'm impressed by how well everything lines up in Slaze's plan, builds finishing exactly when they need to, to start the settler at 5 population, in addition I think his numbers, and the tests from bcool are very convincing. I'm on board with that strategy.
