Turn Discusion T 131-150

[Sommerswerd]

But will we be able to feed 5 prophets at one time?

Myrine has a lighthouse right? So each clam makes 5 . That's 10 total. Each citizen needs 2 to live, so the two citizens working the clam take 4 leaving 6 surplus. 6 surplus will support 3 citizens. So just based on the clams alone in Myrine, we already have enough to run 3 Priest specialists.

Let's first start with one temple and one priest to get us building points towards a prophet. We can add as we go using the religions we actually have in our lands to get us to three and worry about adding more after we get the first three. We still need missionaries and temples just to get the first three

Hopefully, by the time we are actually running 3 priests, we will be very close to our Prophet and a 4th temple might not be needed. If we do need it, though, we have two options. Dao from CDZ or Confucianism from Sirius... that was my point.

Sure it is - the more - the better, but for what exactly we need so badly a GP? Except for a shrine? ... How you guys see it - few more turns of building economics and civilian stuff, then switching back to full military production or balanced approach - building some military and some economics at the same time?

I would say we to go for variant 1 - I am eager to finish this task and then to have some rest before the next war breaks

Yea Prophet is for a shrine and the gold that a shrine makes. Even if shrine gold seems small now, it will be big (+%200) with Market+ Grocer+ Bank + Wall Street.

And I also like plan 1. Finish libraries, found cities then back to building Invasion army for MHI.

 

[2metraninja]

And I also like plan 1. Finish libraries, found cities then back to building Invasion army for MHI.

I must check again in more details, but I guess in ~20 turns we will be ready to invade and hold cities on MHI.

 

[Sommerswerd]

That's great news. What will be the in-game year that we are ready to invade? It is important to know so that we know what needs to be done about Sirius. If we will take MHI around the same time SAP expires then we only need a short extension.

 

[Sommerswerd]

@ 3-Star General 2metra - Invasion timeline and Marthaton Dotmap?

Anyway, I logged in and conducted some important in-game diplo with Sirius (See Sirius embassy), as well as asking for everyones maps, and Offering to trade Feudalism to Quatronia for Drama, and offering to trade Sheep to Quatronia for Spices. We can run 2 scientists in Otreta now, but I would save that for when we are running the science slider at 100% to maximize , at least for now. HE finishes in 6 but if Sirius gifts us Marble we will finish it in 3 turns.

I also switched a coast tile for a Grassfarm in Myrine to grow the city in 2 turns instead of 3. Do we need workshops in Myrine to build our temples? Right now the production there is very very slow. We can always switch them out for cottages or farms later when we are ready to run specialists.

I got screenies of our Military as well as M&M to get a feel for what we are up against, and I have to say, they are very strong. We already have 6 Galleons though, which is great. We still need at least 4 or 5 more to launch a poper invasion I think.

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

Spoiler :

More bad news... Or good news depending on how you look at it... Quatronia's whole army that was blocking the Mavs Iron seems to have been completely destroyed by the Mavs Home Island Defensive Stack (notice the wounded Mavs next to the Iron)...

Spoiler :

One thing this shows is that King slaze is not to be attacked by trying to land a force on MHI. We have to do it with an amphibious invasion, using spies to collapse the defenses prior to attack. Landing on MHI will be suicide.

Finally, here is a shot of Marthaton...

Spoiler :

Looks like we have got it all settled except for the spire. Which has spawned a barb city...

Spoiler :

If that NE tile is where the city is located, then we can just take the city as-is, because it will have access to the Whale and Clam there anyway. So we just need one more city on Marthaton to get the Stone and we will be finished settling Marthaton, AFAICT. Great work General 2metra!

 

[damnrunner]

Whipping the temples is going to be faster than shifting workers to workshops. As we have a granary in the city + seafood we can grow/whip very efficiently.

 

[Sommerswerd]

True but population points are now set to cottages in that city. If we whip away the population points then the cottages wont grow. TBH I couldnt care less about cottage growth as I have said many times that I would prefer we were building all farms to feed specialists, but currently Myrine is working 2 clams, a horse, a farm and two cottages. Myrine grows in 2 turns. It would take a 3 pop whip to finish the library it is building now, otherwise it will take 18 turns to finish. What would you favor doing in Myrine?

 

[damnrunner]

Myrine should not have been given cottages in the 1st place - it is probably our best site for a GP farm. Though I think we do need to be working cottages elsewhere.

 

[Sommerswerd]

OK I agree, but that doesent exactly answer the question... Are you saying you are OK with whipping the cottages citizens away? Or would you rather just let them grow now that they are built? And should we finish /whip the library or switch to the temple?

 

[2metraninja]

Yes, cottages everywhere is what I had in mind, as my biggest fear from the very beginning of my play in the team was and still is that we are teching 3 times slower than everyone else. I hope we will catch up and our late late cottages will start to really matter when we switch to emancipation.

Whipping is absolutely OK with me, especially at low population - 2-3-4. To me it is better to slave them now, when they regrow faster and build all the infrastructure we will need in near future and just then let the city grow and being productive.

 

[Sommerswerd]

BTW, are the jungles with the Elephant camps cut? You can put a camp without cutting the jungle, but cutting the jungle gives +1 on the tile, and leaving the jungle gives nothing. We should check to see if there are jungles on the Elephants.

 

[2metraninja]

BTW, are the jungles with the Elephant camps cut?

Yes, they are. No idea why so small return - 2 food and 2 hammers...

I dont know what to build in the barbarian city, as he have granary, and I just started Courthouse - the maintenance is >5 GPT

Something interesting I saw is that Merlots will have guilds in 5 turns. I started building 1 new spy and moving our existing to be loaded and sent to mission.

Congo is a great place for GP farm. Just we need to take back our second banana. Will whip granaries and then libraries.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Yes, they are. No idea why so small return - 2 food and 2 hammers...

Only +1 and nothing else for a chopped, camped Grassland Elephant?!? That doesent seem right

I dont know what to build in the barbarian city, as he have granary, and I just started Courthouse - the maintenance is >5 GPT

Crossbows! MHI is chock full of Maces. We should launch amphibious attack with Xbows to cancel out the Amphibious penalty. Rather than building a Courthouse, I would say build Versailes, as long as we tell all three allies we should get it with no competition.

Something interesting I saw is that Merlots will have guilds in 5 turns. I started building 1 new spy and moving our existing to be loaded and sent to mission.

What?!? Anyway, Merlot has no Horses so we have nothing to fear from Knights, and they cant trade to Mavs without Navigation IIRC. However, we may have to Blockade all their ports if they get Navigation (or if we see Knights being produced).

Do we have enough to steal it? How many turns at 100% epsy would it take? Hopefully 3 or less.

Another thing... a while back, I remember seeing an ocean tile with no resource on it that was producing a . I was going to follow-up on it but I got sidetracked so now I dont remember where it was or who controlled it but I thought it might be a mapmaking error of some kind. I will have to look through threads to remember, I guess...

 

[2metraninja]

MHI is chock full of Maces. We should launch amphibious attack with Xbows to cancel out the Amphibious penalty.

My idea for taking MHI is more inclined to using surprising massive cut-offs of roads with spies, landing in positions where we are safe for the next turn and then attack the normal way.
Anyway - it is not going to be easy either way.

 

[Sommerswerd]

My idea for taking MHI is more inclined to using surprising massive cut-offs of roads with spies, landing in positions where we are safe for the next turn and then attack the normal way.

If we use spies to cut the roads, they will just use the double worker trick to build them back in one turn and then destroy us just as they did with the first Crusade.

Also, if one of the spies fails her mission, the whole plan fails, unless there is at least two backup spies for every road we wish to cut. I think we are better off with 40 Crossbows attacking amphibiously from Galleons. slaze has already destroyed 3 stacks that tried to land on his home islands, Ours, Sirius's and just recently Quatronia's... We should learn our lesson and just accept that we cant land an invasion force. We have to attack from the boat.

Use a spy (and a backup in caser the first one fails) to incite revolt and collapse the defenses, then we can meet them Mano-y-Mano, taking the city with heavy casualties... Better than losing our entire stack in a sensless massacre and accomplishing nothing like last time

 

[Sommerswerd]

OK I just tested out my own proposal, ie attack the castle amphibiously with 40 X-Bows... I dont think that is going to work. It would take at least 65 X-bows to take the city amphibiously, and we would lose at least 40 of them in the process. Here is my reasoning.

Last I checked, Merlot has 5 Maces, 1 Crossbow, 3 Warriors, 2 Holkans and 1 Archer in their Capital. Of course if they see us about to attack, they will upgade all those, so 10 Maces, 1 Longbow, 1 Crossbow. Pluse we have to assume that they will move at least 5 Crossbows from other towns into the Capital to protect it, and another 5 Maces at least, probably 5 catapults as well. That makes 15 Maces, 6 Crossbows, 5 Catapults and 1 Longbow (27 units).

I set that faceoff up, and 40 Amphibious Xbows will only wound that stack, but will not kill hardly any of their units. To kill the wounded stack you need another 25 Xbows.

So I guess we should use a different approach afterall. Maybe there is something to cutting the roads, but we would need backup spies in case there are mission failures. And we would hve to cut all the roads leading to the Castle and to the NE city(Dungeon?) at least 2 tiles away. One road cut will not be enough. Also, since you cant choose what improvement to cut (roads always get cut last), we would have to send enoug spies to destroy the improvement AND the road PLUS a backup (or two) for each tile. That's alot of spies. Im sure they have all their workers waiting near the Iron so they can replace lost roads quickly.

Finally, if we are going that route, we need Trebuchets, at least 10.

 

[2metraninja]

Amphibious assault against well-defended city is nearly impossible without at last 2 eras difference between the attacker and the defender - i.e. tanks against rifles, etc.

We cant do it the brute way, so we need to trick them Is it going to be only with spies or they play part of our plan - this is yet to be looked at, discussed and decided.

 

[damnrunner]

Only way the amphib attack can work is if we can split their forces. With ships we can target 3 cities at the same time forcing them to split up their defense. Ships off shore will also encourage them to keep all of their units in cities where we can see them. We may realize we can't in fact take a city, but it would still generate good intel.

 

[Sommerswerd]

We just lost like 30-40 points in score. Did we lose a city? Or slave something?

 

[2metraninja]

Just 19 points. Slaved. Did not knew it will show so strong in the score to scare you

Slaving from 10 to 7 shows more than from 6 to 3 it seems.

 

[Sommerswerd]

BTW, What was slaved and where? I just logged in and I could not tell...

Anyway, I set the build in Vandal to Versailes (it was set to a Forge but there were no invested yet) and changed the Courthouse build in Sangre to a Forge. My thought is:

1. All the Marthaton cities will be production cities eventually so they will all need forges, might as well get started. I think that is probably why Vandal was set to Forge in the first place right?

2. We are getting killed on maintenance charges on Marthaton, but we can't spend the resources to build courthouses in ALL the cities there right now. Versailes will enable us to simultaneously reduce maintenance in ALL Marthaton AND Anjennida cities, at the same time, since Vandal is in the middle of our Marthaton cities close to Anjennida. We also get a plus 100% bonus on Versailes since Sirius is giving us Marble.

I also asked CDZ to trade maps, as they have a city on Troisland that we cant see. I marked a couple places that I suggest building farms to make Nabaxica grow faster.

Also, Quatronia just landed a small invasion stack on Comet next to a Mavs city. They might have enough to take the city, especially since the stack has Trebuchets, but I doubt they can hold the city with so much Mavs military on Comet. This means they will probably just raze the city. Good news for us, because it means they will have to waste time resettleing.

Another thing is that we are going to get a big points increase in 2 turns with 5 or 6 cities set to grow all at the same time. When this happens we will probably shoot past Q in score which may scare them, so we want to tell the allies before this happens that we want Versailes, otherwise, our allies may object. I will PM a heads up out the allies, letting them know we are building Versailes.