Turn Discusion T 119-130

[damnrunner]

Good call on sacrificing them. Hopefully Mav might repeat the mistake.

One thing to keep in mind is that our units get a 5% per turn fortification bonus if they keep still. For this reason we should always move our longest fortified units last. That way if we don't end up needing to move them, they can keep the accrued fortification benefits.

 

[2metraninja]

Hopefully Mav might repeat the mistake.

Seems they made it a bit earlier, as they brought third worker.

When the hell I had to build roads in the desert another time so to know this detail. I knew Oasis takes 2 movements, but these 25%+ were unexpected to me. Another thing is that I was too tired in the night and acted not cautiously by not first moving and then seeing how much time it will cost, so to have chance to retreat them.

Anyway - on this front I lost 2 workers, but on the other - near Sangre I captured 3 of Merlots workers by surprising seaborne attack, so we are still +1 workerwise.

Now the main concern is if Mavs move in Myrine direction and hide in the jungles. If they decide to move there, they will most probably build road, move, then destroy the road with 2-mover leaving behind the workers who lost turn building it, to prevent our Nabaxica army from chasing them. If they use the Great Engineer to acquire Engineering, they can run in the jungle even this turn.

 

[Sommerswerd]

This must be their plan. Why else would they have brought a third worker?

 

[damnrunner]

Are we able to pillage the road in the desert to the south of our elephant city? Even if we need to sacrifice a unit to do so - it will prevent mavericks form being able to move all their forces into the jungle tiles to the south of the city. I think we are going to have to abandon our canal city to kill the Mav stack in the desert, and then look to send our stack back at Merlot. If Merlot is foolish enough to pursue us we can probably kill their stack in the desert, but I anticipate they will camp in the jungle to deny us access. If they do this we will be at a stalemate and will need to ferry over units to Marthaland.

As we will soon have longbows, I think we should also consider capturing/building some hilltop cities (such as Vandal). With just a few (4 is a good number) double hill promoted LB's these cities would be hugely costly for Merlot to attempt to capture. This will not only give us some local production for units but will also greatly reduce Merlot's maneuverability.

 

[2metraninja]

Some good news from the front line, guys.

Last turn after reluctantly tried to attack Mavs SOD in the open with road-build and failed miserable, losing 2 workers, I loaded some soldiers on galleons, then reinforced the jungle pass to Anjennida with other soldiers to make Mavs hesitate advancing there. This leaved Nabaxica seemingly less defended and King Slaze fell for the decoy. He decided to try all-in-one attack on Nabaxica closing his Mavs army and his whole Merlots army next to the city to attempt an assault the very next turn. This was best for us and is what I was hoping for. This turn I made an attack on his Mavs SOD, killing all their 12 units in reach with the loss of 2 catapults, 2 xbows and 1 mace from our side. In the process 2 Great generals were born in our capitol. Average luck I had in this battle. Lost one fight at 80+ percents, but all ended well as a whole. Then I used our fleet to move all of the jungle defenders from Anjennida to defend Nabaxica and now I think we will have the odds against the Merlot stack if they desperately decide to storm the city.

The fact that I fought Mavs directly in front of our city gave us the advantage all of our troops to stay in the city defending it even this turn, even with full 25% defensive bonus.

Spoiler :

The remaining Mavs are 1 catapult, 1 xbow, 1 mace and 3 fast workers. Even if they try to threaten Euxine and Myrine, we will have enough forces to keep them outside our cities.

On the east side of Martathon I loaded the captured 3 workers in galleon and move them to Nabaxica - we will need to improve it when we repel/kill the Merlots. Also I will move our small tactical force to destroy their copper mine in 4 turns to deny them Maces if they still hold the cities.

 

[nabaxo]

Good work!

 

[Sommerswerd]

Some very good, and very welcome news General... however, the battle of Nabaxica is not over yet. I will log in and take a look at the situation, and dance on the graves of the cowardly Maverick corpses. Surely, named Zenobians fight better than b@$tards, no?

For your valiant deeds, I am recommending that you be elevated to a 2 star, general.

 

[2metraninja]

Sure, now fighting for their family names glory, they fought better this time.

I am trying to do my best serving the Zenobian Omnipotent Nation and undoing our enemies.

On side note, I care for our finances too, so can you please check did I canceled the 10 GPT deal to Sirius, as I dont remember for sure.

 

[damnrunner]

Well done! Two GG's is great!

Mavs are probably going to retreat with their units - do we send any to try and chase them down. I think we hold back though as we both have engineering and we won't be able to catch them if they are smart about it.

So Merlot is in position to stack us next turn, how do we want to proceed? From the looks of it, I think we stay put in the city as I don't think they have the forces to push us out. Does that sound right to folks? I would upgrade our new archer to an xbow though (we have the $) and would be curious how we plan to promote units as I expect we will have a number of promotions. One unit should be given medic of course, but after that I am not sure. City garrison or anti-archery would probably be best for the xbows. For maces, combat or anti-archery seems most sensible.

What do we want to do with our GGs? I would lean towards using them to form the core of a second crusade invasion force. Though we could also settle them to just produce a stack of superior units. If we do use them to create super units, what do we want to promote. Mace or elephant? Or wait till we get knights?

 

[2metraninja]

So Merlot is in position to stack us next turn, how do we want to proceed? From the looks of it, I think we stay put in the city as I don't think they have the forces to push us out.

They will attack us even this turn, as they move second in the turn. And sure they cant take the city, but I think they will attack us anyway - they want to do us some damage now when our soldiers are wounded and not promoted. The next turn it will be too late for them. Also, their army presence on Martathon will not make them any good any longer, especially if CDZ have embarked near Sangre and Turnpike, as I requested from them.

I would upgrade our new archer to an xbow though

I will as soon as we have turn to do this - last turn I used them for killing wounded Mavs.

I expect we will have a number of promotions.

Not so much in real. Most of our soldiers had already level 2 promotions and they were killing mostly wounded enemies, from which the experience is not that great.

ity garrison or anti-archery would probably be best for the xbows.

We already have 2 Cover promoted xbows and if Merlots retreat their SOD intact, I will need more of them.

What do we want to do with our GGs?

Good question which I was going to ask myself.

I think about settling them both in Otreta, which is our most productive city together with our capitol, but I think we must make Themiscyra economic center.

With 2 settled GGs, barracks, stables and theocracy thats 11 EXP from scratch for Elephants (1 point short of fourth promotion with our charming trait) and 9 EXP for land units. Serial production of triple promoted units is powerful And we will keep this advantage for the whole game length.

Adding them to a stack is nice too, but only in tactical use merits. We dont have the stack we need for base yet. We have to build it and 40 EXP ( i think every general gives 20) will be leveraged after only 10 units produced in Otreta. Every unit we produce after the tenth is pure gain in experience for us. And when we build HE in Otreta, the gain will be even bigger.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Great Generals should be settled in Otreta to get us closer to the elusive triple promotion. Also, if we can build HE, I would do so in Otreta if we defeat the Merlot stack, the sooner we have it, the more benefit we gain from it.

Another issue is that our tech is still stagnant. With all allies in full upgrade mode now, we really must get some scientists going to speed along tech while still at zero research. Maybe once we get our second Great Spy (fingers crossed) we can start running scientists in Themiscyra? Also Otreta, we need a library there too.

We also need to found that NE city on Anjennida to beat the border expansions of Rigel that Sirius mentioned. We should slave that settler from Myrine to get it ASAP. Finally, we have to build our libraries on Anjennida quickly, as per our agreement with Sirius.

This is all a lot to do while at war, yes, but still it must be done. When I get a chance soon i will log in to see if I can offer any useful suggestions... otherwise I trust the generals judgment.

 

[nabaxo]

For what it's worth, I agree with the sentiment that settled generals are best.

 

[2metraninja]

Great Generals should be settled in Otreta to get us closer to the elusive triple promotion.

We WILL have triple promoted mounted, infantry AND naval units after we settle the 2 GGs.

If we get another GG from Merlots attacking us at Nabaxica, and settle it in Otreta too, we will have QUATRO promoted mounted units with this setup 3 stars + formation or 3 stars + shock knights will go even through enemy pikes and knights like knife through warm butter.

Another issue is that our tech is still stagnant.

Depending on what Merlots do the next turn, and how close they will be to teching feudalism, so we can get the known-civ-have-this-tech bonus from Merlots and Mavericks or we can just steal from them. We dont need too much money for upgrades now, so we can start teching if we so desire.

We also need to found that NE city on Anjennida to beat the border expansions of Rigel that Sirius mentioned.

This is not a problem at all, if there is not a rule against peace-time gifting of cities. If their culture pops, we just gift them our settler, they found the city and then gift us the city.

we have to build our libraries on Anjennida quickly, as per our agreement with Sirius

Will do that once we have the chance

Also when we secure Martathon, I will start using churning settlers and settling a bunch of new cities. Please, comment on my notes about number and location of cities on Martathon.

 

[Sommerswerd]

I took a quick look... I have a bunch to say....

So the first thing I noticed is that Merlot has 13 Units next to Nabaxica and Mavericks have 3 units 2 tiles away for a total of 16 units in striking range of the city.

We have 17 defenders, so even assuming that they attacked and won EVERY battle (impossible), they would still not take the city. Also, with a full strength Elephant and 3 full strength Xbows (one with City Defense II) I think they would have to be very foolish to attack the city. If they do great, but I think they will just try to camp outside it in the jungle, and retreat with their Mav stack, or try to invade Anjennida. Either way, I think Nabaxica is safe from capture for at least the next couple of turns as long as all the defenders stay put.

Our Great Person comes out in 3 turns. Right now it is 64% for a Spy so there is at least a decent chance that it will be an engineer. What Wonder will we get if it is the engineer? EDIT{deleted}... Ill just put this in the Wonder Woman Thread

We WILL have triple promoted mounted, infantry AND naval units after we settle the 2 GGs.

If we get another GG from Merlots attacking us at Nabaxica, and settle it in Otreta too, we will have QUATRO promoted mounted units with this setup

That is even better news. We could also build a couple stables to preserve the mounted promotions even after we switch out of Theocracy, but I wouldnt want stables until after the libraries are built, we probably need the and points from scientists more than the promotions. On the other hand, we are building Elephants, so maybe stables would be useful...... I guess as long as we are in Theocracy, stables can wait.

Will we switch to Vassalage when we get Feudalism? Would it be beneficial/ worth it? I think so, but maybe we should discuss.

Depending on what Merlots do the next turn, and how close they will be to teching feudalism, so we can get the known-civ-have-this-tech bonus from Merlots and Mavericks or we can just steal from them. We dont need too much money for upgrades now, so we can start teching if we so desire.

Merlot is teching Compass and Mavs are teching Engineering, which leads me to believe that they do not intend to use the Engineer to bulb Engineering... why waste beakers teching towards it if you are going to bulb it? Both enemy civs seem to be stockpiling gold anyway as their tech times are both in the hundreds of turns.

If their culture pops, we just gift them our settler, they found the city and then gift us the city.

Good point. I did not think of that.

Please, comment on my notes about number and location of cities on Martathon.

IIRC I raised the question about whether everyone was OK with 2metra deciding the city locations on Marthaton and I think everyone said yes. I think I also asked if folks were OK with the settlement locations in the Anjennida settlement agreement that Sirius was pushing and everyone said yes.

Technically we are supposed to poll city locations, but I just figured that with only a few participants it might just be a little redoundant. Anyway... I guess I could just post a quick poll on both questions now just to make it official, since you have mentioned it a few times. A poll might be fun... We havent done one of those in quite a while

MHI is crawling with Maces and Merlot seems to be building Maces in all their cities. Most of their defenders on MHI are Maces. For this reason, I think we should go back to building Xbows. Right now, 2 Galleon full of Xbows could probably capture the dungeoun. I think we should still finish the Elephants we are building for sure, but I think the bulk of the invasion force should be catapults and Xbows.

Last but not least... I would really, really, really like to build a Caravel next in SilCon Valley when the Xbow finishes. The mission of this Caravel would be to patrol back and forth in the deep ocean off our Northwest Coast. Why? Because now that all the ETTT has Galleons, we should be on the lookout for a suprise move from one of our allies.

If any of them invaded DI now, we would be elimminated with almost no resistance what so ever. The ice-encased design of the Map means that the highest probablility of a suprise naval invasion would come from the Northwest, most likely Sirius, as the only othe way would be to sail all the way around Merlot's land. The way it would probably happen, is we would see Galleons congregating Northwest of us, just outside our view.

That is why a Caravel is perfect... Caravels are non-threatening, because they can carry no units, and are easily explained as an exploring unit, perhaps we are looking for channels through the ice or islands with resources... All we have to do is make sure that if we spot a Sirius Galleon, for example, that we withdraw our Caravel, so that they dont know that we saw it. That way we can be prepared for the sneak attack without them even knowing we are ready. I know this is cloak and dagger talk, but I think the small investment of one sentry caravel to patrol the Northwest Sea is a good investment to prevent the possibility of catastrophic suprise invasion.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Final Points... We need a Castle in Themiscyra (+25%) especially if we are considering stealing a tech from Merlot. Walls and a Castle would take 11 turns. Our espy rate is doing us good, as we can now see all the Maverick cities as well, which brings me to my next points...

We should give Sirus a screenshot of the Maverick Cities if they dont have visibility already. The Maverick Cities on Comet have moderate defenses, except for Spot B (the Easternmost city, right near the center) which is totally undefended. Sirius might be able to raze or capture that one quickly with the Mace they have in the area, as the city is producing a Horse Archer which is defensless against a mace.

We need to keep stocking gold to upgrade thos two Spears to Pikes and the Archers in Nabaxica to Xbows.

BTW we can see inside all of the Merlot Cities now (and one of the Mav cities, spot B). The Castle has an Academy and a Library, and the Garden has a Library as well. there is no War weariness unhapiness yet.

Where are the Q forces BTW? We can see around all the Mavericks cities now, and I dont see any Q armies anywhere. All I see is 2 Q caravels off the Southern coast of Comet. What are they doing? Just sitting back and letting others do all the fighting? Maybe we should ask them if they are attacking the Mavericks cities yet to see if they lie about it... as they clearly arent doing squat yet. If they lie, then we know that they are planning something sneaky... probably against CDZ

 

[damnrunner]

It seems most of the team is leaning to settling the GGs. I'll give one last argument why I think we may not want to.

Long term, I agree that settling the GG's is best. But short term having them on the field of battle could be decisive. If we were to pick up a few units from Nabaxia, and land them + the two GGs (and any other newly produced units) on the coast of Marthland - we should be able to easily take Sange. With two GGs in play we could quickly clear Marthaland of Merlot cities.

While 20-30 turns out we could build a kick ass highly promoted stack by settling the GGs. I think we could take Marthaland with the GGs and some support units in that same time frame.

Settling the GGs will give us a better stack to invade the Merlot home-island - but now that they can build catapults I think we are probably not going to be able to capture the home island cities until we have gunpowder units.

We should be able to have a GG unit with 5 promotions - imagine how deadly a woodsman III, combat 1, cover - mace GG would be. It would make quick work of Merlot's xbows - and anything else they field for that matter.

 

[2metraninja]

Short communique:

Merlots did attacked Nabaxica with everything they had. They lost a bit more than we lost, but it was a bloodbath. I made all the possible upgrades and reinforced with fresh CG2 xbow. Mavs have closed for attack, but I doubt if they and the remaining Merlots will sacrifice their life attacking again. We are very close to our third general.

 

[Calis]

It's not too bad for our 'allies', right. The military strongest team gets dogpiled by two civs that are played by actually one person, weakening us to a point where backstabbing becomes an option.

I really hope that I am wrong, but...

 

[2metraninja]

Finally, after the smoke and dust from the battle of Nabaxica has settled, I am glad to report to the whole Zenobian nation, that we still hold the city. I managed to defend it against the two enemy armies of Mavericks and Merlots.

In the final phase of the battle Mavs and Merlots attacked us with their remaining forces and suffered a crushing defeat. We they lost 6 units in fight and disbanded another at least 2 other, making their casualties at least 8 units, while we suffered only 1 unit loss.

Our glorious army are chasing the last 2 retreating wounded Merlots units in the jungles near barb city Vandal - 1 holkan and 1 axeman. I made an ambush for them and hope that I will kill them the very next turn. Martathon is swarmed with our own and allied soldiers. The straights are controlled by our and allied fleet. Merlots are hiding in their 2 remaining cities on Martathon and is a matter of only few turns we to control securely the whole peninsula and start to cultivate it.

We have our third Great General waiting in Otreta what we will ask him to do.

Nike smiles wide at us

 

[Sommerswerd]

Merlots did attacked Nabaxica with everything they had... We are very close to our third general.

Ha! I did not think they would have the guts to do that, but hey, at least we know their Marthaton army is dead with no way for them to reinforce.

If GG goes to Otreta, will it yield another promotion? Id like some Raider III, Barrage I catapults.

Finally, after the smoke and dust from the battle of Nabaxica has settled, I am glad to report to the whole Zenobian nation, that we still hold the city. I managed to defend it against the two enemy armies of Mavericks and Merlots.

In the final phase of the battle Mavs and Merlots attacked us with their remaining forces and suffered a crushing defeat. We they lost 6 units in fight and disbanded another at least 2 other, making their casualties at least 8 units, while we suffered only 1 unit loss.

Our glorious army are chasing the last 2 retreating wounded Merlots units in the jungles near barb city Vandal - 1 holkan and 1 axeman. I made an ambush for them and hope that I will kill them the very next turn. Martathon is swarmed with our own and allied soldiers. The straights are controlled by our and allied fleet. Merlots are hiding in their 2 remaining cities on Martathon and is a matter of only few turns we to control securely the whole peninsula and start to cultivate it.

We have our third Great General waiting in Otreta what we will ask him to do.

Nike smiles wide at us

More great news. How soon can we mop up the Merlot forces on Marthaton? Remember that a second wave of Mavs is probably coming soon. They have no choice really.