Turn Discusion T 66-75

[2metraninja]

Just a thought - if we take the barb city it will get linked up to our resources via the river correct. That means we could move back our 4 axes and upgrade them all to maces. That would ensure victory vs. Merlot. We could also ask for a small gold loan from an ally with the assumption we would pay it back from the spoils form capturing The Circus.

I agree with this plan if it connect the resource. But we still need our xbows/maces from DI that are coming. No matter that we have technology edge we need at least equal number of units to take the city for sure. Axes perform well when in city even against CR2 maces, and we dont have any CR promotions at all. 1 or 2 catapults would do the job if we have them though.

With those divided loyalties and the possibility that ETTT collapse I am not sure what to do in near future.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Wouldn't it be better to build an archer/spear for the happiness in Them as they cost less hammers. We face no threat of coastal invasion right now - so an xbow is not needed.

Good Point. Another thought is that a Monument would only be 15 IIRC. Either way we should just build whatever raises the happy cap the fastest, as in the least amount of turns to build. We can get +1 from a monument now, grow to size 8 and then use a cheap unit to grow to size 10 later. Or we could do it the other way around. Either way is fine with me.

Just a thought - if we take the barb city it will get linked up to our resources via the river correct. That means we could move back our 4 axes and upgrade them all to maces. That would ensure victory vs. Merolt. We could also ask for a small gold loan from an ally with the assumption we would pay it back from the spoils form capturing The Circus.

Wow, I totally missed that. If you are right then that could be great for us. The key is we have to have enough gold to upgrade multiple Maces at once. We have to move them out quickly, upgrade and then come right back before they can react. As long as they dont have Walls yet we migt be able to steal the city from them.

Are you absolutely positive that we will be able to upgrade our units in the barb city once we capture it? If so, then we should slave the crossbow in Myrine and ferry it over with the other Galley and use our units to take the city. If we time it right, we can return to the circus with a stack of Maces and a Crossbow while our spy keeps an eye on the circus when our units are away.

We can use our spy to start a revolt the same turn that we attack and upgrade the Maces to City Raider I. The revolt will collapse the city defenses for 1 turn while we attack. If we dont have the gold for that, we can at least blow up the mine to sabotage their production, or poison their water to prevent them from slaving. Either way, we can put the spy to good use. Alot of this would need to be calculated for expense and effectiveness, but we can use the spy as a lookout for sure if nothing else.

 

[damnrunner]

I can't game test any of these war plans out as I don't have BTS. But if we can pull it off it would be ideal. I am 99% sure we are linked up to tradfe routes, but someone should test it out on a test map just to be sure. I think the main limit would be if the barb city gets razed rather than captured. We need to run 100% gold right now anyway, so we can test stuff out as we continue to stockpile gold. If it is not feasible, we can always put that gold into research.

For Them, don't build a monument. We are getting pretty close to Astro (assuming the ETTT keeps together) when the monument happiness boost will become obsolete. I would build an archer.

 

[damnrunner]

Slaving an Xbow in Myrine. This may be a better idea: Switch to a catapult, use a 2 pop slave to rush the cat. Overflow speeds up the Xbow. If this would work, it could get a much needed catapult out the door which will be crucial if The Circus builds city walls. Also I think the collateral damage from a catapult makes it a better unit for attacking a city anyway.

 

[damnrunner]

Our galley is waiting to pick up these units.

Otreta is building maceman, 2 turns, growth in 3.
Ephesus is building missionary, 5 turns, growth in 2.
SilCon Valley building maceman, 17 turns, growth in 2

In two turns SilCon Valley will grow to pop 3, at this point we should be able to slave a mace. Or order to speed its arrival on a galley, we need to road the tile SE of SilCon Valley, I believe we have an available worker to do this.

This does however leave our missionary without immediate transport. Would it make sense to delay construction to work on something in Ephesus? I would suggest a building or an archer/spear for happiness somewhere on the home island.

 

[2metraninja]

This may be a better idea: Switch to a catapult, use a 2 pop slave to rush the cat. Overflow speeds up the Xbow.

Did you made this? Sounds good to me. If we are not building any settlers to settle Martaton for the moment, then we can put our units to good use. In these times when ETTT is threaten of disintegration, it will be nice move to show our potential and hit decisively the reputation of M&M by wiping Merlot out of the landmass. Upgraded maces in the ex-barb city + a catapult will do the job for The Circus to fall. I expect very soon that they land reinforcements though.

delay construction to work on something in Ephesus? I would suggest a building or an archer/spear for happiness somewhere on the home island.

Agree to this too.
What is the reason that we build missionaries at all BTW?

 

[Sommerswerd]

it will be nice move to show our potential and hit decisively the reputation of M&M by wiping Merlot out of the landmass.

That is a really good point, and a great incentive to try to capture the circus quickly

What is the reason that we build missionaries at all BTW?

Missionary will save us the trouble of building a Monument in Canal City. Also, Monumnet will give us a +25% building bonus because of Organized Religion Civic. We can use that to speed a forge(maybe) in the Canal City which would allow us to run an engineer. Also we can and should then build Moais in the Canal fortress. I estimate that with lighthouse and by using the river and civil service to spread farms we can grow that Canal fortress to size 10 maybe even 12

Canal Fortress needs a name BTW. If we arent polling it I would like "nabaxica"

For next couple turns...

Now that last Deer camp near SilCon Valley is done, we should mine the Silver next

We should send the new Toxaris and Hippolyte-a to Marthaton and use Myrine to build more defensive units. Siruis should capture Carib soon, which will help alot with fogbusting. Once the Andromache (Maces) are ready we can send the Andros and Toxaris, and Hippolyte-a over to Marthaton, hopefully by then, Vandal will have grown to pop 2 so we can capture it.

We need to check to make sure where the Merlot Worker went. Hopefully not roading to another city, but we need to check. First we should go West, because the tried to sneak a worker that way before. Then we can swing the stack around North past the copper mine to check the East side. If they do have another city, planned, moving our stack around should scare them out of doing it. The longer we just stay put the more incentive they have to just start ignoring the stack.

 

[damnrunner]

The missionary for the canal city does make sense, but after that we should not be building more. Christianity has a pretty high base spread rate and will slowly spread on its own.

What is the plan for our spy? Blow up the copper mine would be a good idea, but that gives away the fact that we have a spy. Granted their is not much they can do about it. Other option of course is to camp in the city. This lets us keep an eye on them as we move around our stack.

Have we traded resources with Sirius yet? If not, we should.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Last time I checked, no resource trades were available. Maybe we need Navigation first.

 

[damnrunner]

Does the Barb city must block the coastal route? If it is not the barb city then we may not get iron linked up should we capture the barb city near the circus. In vanilla it would work, but BTS may work differently for this.

 

[Sommerswerd]

What barb city? Carib and Bulgar? I can see how Carib and Bulgar would Block our routes to our allies, but I dont see how it would block our trade route to Marthaton if they go through rivers as you say

 

[Sommerswerd]

Something else worth mentioning, is that you can see in the screenies that CDZ sent us that they are building Berzerks. They probably have at least a couple by now.

Another thing that I never mentioned is that Chistianity has spread to all the cities on DI (you can see it in the turn log), so all our home island cities get the +25% bonus from OR, and all would also get the Theology bonus if we changed Civics to theology. If we are going to build a siege Army I think we should consider switching. Especially if we are not building anymore buildings and just military for a while. Double promotion CR for Maces or Shock for Maces or CR 2 for catas would be a killer.

 

[nabaxo]

Dudes, you write all these "advanced" moves with wipping and whatnot. Just write exactly what has been decided on in bullet-list form.

Also, I think we should raze the barb city on Marthaton and build one on the cost instead.

Also, I should settle the first great spy, right?

 

[2metraninja]

I like the barb city location, let us keep him... Or lets make dot-map where we think to settle cities on Martaton.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Yes keep the barb city (Vandal). A coastal site would overlap too much with Euxine, Myrine, and Nabaxica.

And yes settle the great spy.

 

[damnrunner]

Dudes, you write all these "advanced" moves with whipping and whatnot. Just write exactly what has been decided on in bullet-list form.

Quite right.

Units from Ort/SciCon
Ort is done with Mace in 2 turns. Then it is 3 more turns to move to an board galley. Total of 5 turns.

This is the time frame we should use to whip in SciCon. Pop will grow in 2 turns. We should use this to whip out a catapult or finish the mace. Either way it can join the mace from Ort. I would say stick with the mace at this point. The barb city has 3 archers, and we will probably need 2 maces to clear it without losing any units. If it was just 1-2 archers I would say go with a catapult.

The boat holding these 2 units can move into position in 3 turns. And drop off units right at the barb city.

5turns to board, 3 turns to move boat and unload. This is 7turns to get our maces right outside of the barb city (can board and move boat at same time)

Units from Myrne
The boat with the settler has 6-7 turns (ish) to drop off units an get back to a position to pick up units from Myrne. The current xbow will be done next turn, and the city should also whip a catapult. Both of these can get dropped off with the maces.


Both galleys then should head back to home island to pick up the missionary and 3 more units. I am not sure what the best unit mix would be, but probably maces and cats.

 

[Sommerswerd]

A few important updates...

1. I logged in and ended the turn. Us ending the turn is the only way Merlot knows it is OK for them to take their turn.

2. I noticed that our cities were woking unimproved tiles so I shuffled around the worked tiles a little to make sure all our Deer and sheep were being worked. This improved some growth times, and some production times.

3. I moved the stack near the circus West across the river. As I suspected, Merlot tried to sneak a worker over there again. The worker will retreat back to the city of course, and then the stack can go back to the hill 1N of the circus

4. Sirius catured the barb city Carib

5. CDZ captured the barb city Bulgar

6. I adjusted our points a little. We needed 11 more points to see Merlot's tech, and 9 more points to see Mavs tech. Since we now produce 22/turn, (thanks to a settled Great Spy), I put 13 points on Merlot and 9 on Mavs. This should give us visibility of both team's tech next turn. After that, we will easily be able to track both of their tech for the rest of the game.

7. Themiscyra will enter disorder next turn. The Mace poping out in Otreta can be sent to Themiscyra to temporarily quell the unrest, so the disorder will only last 1 turn. When the Archer finishes in Ephesus, she can take over for the Mace. That way the Mace can go to Marthaton to fight. We should name the Archer "Little Joan"

8. I named the new Crossbow "Toxaris Sarah"

9. The worker near Myrine (i think its Pickles) should farm one of the river tiles to spread irrigation and Workshop some non river tiles to give the city some production. We need 1 Farm per workshop for the to support the workshop. Or better yet, Skalman needs help chopping the jungle to camp the Elephant. We need that +1 for Themiscyra's (and Otereta's) continued growth. Or better still, we need a road from Euxine to Myrine, so that Hippolyte-a can defend both cities at the same time from barb Axes, and then Toxaris Sarah can go to Marthaton to fight. We could also upgrade Aris II to a Mace and send her instead.

10. When Themiscyra finishes the Forge, we should run an Engineer to speed along the next Great Person. On the off chance that we get a Great Engineer instead of a Spy, no biggie, we can Use the Great Engineer for a Wonder. Id like the Parthenon to help speed another Great Person (Hopefully a Spy).

11. We should stay at 0% to build gold for the Pyrgo to Andro upgrade. Our excuse is that we are waiting for Q and CDZ to decide whether we should tech Music for them.

12. Merlot's power is higher than ours on the Power graph . that means they have a pretty powerful Military at this point.

13. Two great Prophet recently were Born. So now there has been a Great Scientist (probably Sirius), a great Engineer (Mavs), a Great Spy (us), and two great Prophets (Quatronia and Mavs). Quatronia alrady used the Prophet to build the Mahabodhi (Buddhist Shrine)

 

[damnrunner]

All good points.

Can we now trade gold for silver with Sirius (since they captured the barb city). That would help Them keep from going into disorder.

For Merlot to have more power than us means they have quite a big stack somewhere. Our number get inflated by superior tech and more points of population. Though it may be possible that Merlot has been building lots of forges and barracks. This would also boos there power numbers. Our Maces/xbows/cats though will neutralize any advantage they have in numbers though. Killing lots of weak units is a great way to get a quick GG.

 

[damnrunner]

Switching from OR to Theo has been suggested. I think this would not be a good idea and if the turn player wants to do this i would like us to poll it first. Would give the opportunity to argue why I think OR remains a stronger civic for the foreseeable future.

 

[Sommerswerd]

I mentioned switching as a possibility a while back. I am interested to hear your arguments against switching as I just thought it would be good for pressing the war against Merlot. A poll is also a good idea. Polls are always fun

In Other News...

Merlot and Mavs have Machinery now. They have not upgraded their Archers near the circus yet, but Merlot has 141 which is enough to upgrade an Archer into a Crossbow (125)

We can see M&M's tech now. Merlot is teching Code of Laws (2 turns), probably to push back against our high espionage against them, as well as to go for Civil Service (Maces).

Mavs are teching Currency (300+ turns) but they are stockpiling gold first.

This turn we need to move the Andromache (Mace) from Otreta to Themiscyra for hapiness

We also should probably consider slaving the Catapult, the Archer, and the other Mace

Now that Merlot has Machinery, we need to get our stack away from the circus. I would favor moving the stack NW from where they are now and heading for the barb city Vandal. The city is at pop 2 now, so it is ripe for capture.

Finally, there is a barb Galley North of Myrine. We should keep one of our Galleys in the area to asorb the attack from the galley, but make sure that no units are aboard when the barb ship is in range.