Turn Discussion Thread

Next site: I agree with LP and Irgy, the NW city (marked as "C" in game's map) is the one to go.
Research:Mining,BW,Wheel is ok, roads arrive on time.
So far I see hammers as less important than usual and beakers more important, lest cities have nothing to build. So, few whips and chops.
2nd city gold tile is river too, I would like it fast. Perhaps Sirius: WB, worker, settler, worker, WB.
 
Have we considered that Pindicator's case 1 (WB-Worker) gets our settler out two turns earlier? (Okay, only 1 considering Slavery revolt). Cause assuming the growth of the 2nd city isn't slowed by outside help (which I think it isn't), that would make up for a fair number of hammers.
 
When I was first doing the wb->wb->worker(whip) I was considering running a test case like that, but it was very late. Thanks for taking the time to do it dima! Looks like that is the way to go.

Now, I don't want to cut off any discussion in case there are parties who are unconvinced about wb->wb->worker(whip), but I was wondering this morning if building the library directly after the settler a good build order? Would fitting in a worker first be a better idea?
 
Cool. By the way, how secure is this google spreadsheet thing? I presume it's publicly accessible. If the other teams searched the right terms, wouldn't they find it? Just wondering if we should password-protect this stuff. :)
 
Looking at the screenshot this turn:

Spoiler :
attachment.php


I'm not sure why we're not considering a city E 1 tile east of city D. It'd probably be the only way to work that plains-hill tile in the centre of the island, and doesn't lose any resources. Plus it can help the capital work more cottages faster, for a bigger bonus once we reach Bureaucracy.
 
I also ran a very quick with AH in there after the wheel was completed and tbh it may not be such a bad idea if we plan to get it any time soon. It didn't delay the settler and only delayed the library's completion by 2 turns. I doubt we can complete it in 2 turns after writing for quite some time.
 
And while I'm on a spam session:
Spoiler :
CityPlacements.jpg

City 3B includes the plains hill as LP mentioned meaning every land tile will be worked for a total of 12 new workable tiles.
City 3A doesn't include the plains hill meaning its not getting worked by any city however has a total of 15 previously unworked tiles.

Plains hill Vs 2 water tiles
 
fwiw, I actually ran the same example earlier: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=9091956&postcount=193

I think it got skipped over :(

The reason I bring it up is that our numbers are slightly different but in a good way. I ran it to turn 41 for the completion of the library to compare with a library 1 turn old but its the same test.

Sorry, I didn't realize this is what you meant, and your spreadsheet isn't accessible to me. I thought you were whipping from pop 3 to pop 1 in some line, and I had no idea how to do that.
 
The spreadsheet isn't accessible? Feel free to tell me how to publish it properly then. Its essentially identical with a few differences in numbers towards the end. The save file should work though and it was saved on turn 41.

And you can't whip from 3 to 1 but like yourself I have no idea why. Someone wanna explain that mechanic?
 
So what level are we planing on whiping the Worker from? Pop 3? Pop 2? If it's 3 then we need to continue working the Fish tile even after it goes to Pop 2.

Also Champinoman you may want to change those Plains tiles to Desert otherwise your food count will be off. I mean I'd love Plains/Flood or Grass/Flood but that's not in the game Generator.
 
Ran a few tests. Sorry for the rough write-up, I was in a hurry.

Tech path throughout all: BW -> The Wheel -> Pottery -> Writing -> Iron Working (placeholder)

First test

Builds: WB -> part WB -> Worker (whip) -> finish WB -> Settler -> Library -> Granary (placeholder)

Second city founded on turn 42 (+2 delayed from second test).

At start of turn 42, have 36 hammers into the placeholder Granary (-18 loss from second test), and 253 beakers in the placeholder Iron Working (-16 loss from second test). No hammers yet produced in second city (-10 from second test). Exploring Work Boat has moved 2 tiles further than in second test. Worker has chopped 2 forests (same as second test).

Second test

Builds: WB -> part WB -> Worker (no whip, no Slavery) -> finish WB -> Settler -> Library -> Granary (placeholder)

Second city founded on turn 40 (-2 quicker than first test).

At start of turn 42, have 54 hammers in the placeholder Granary (+18 from first test), and 269 beakers in the placeholder Iron Working (+16 from first test), plus 10 hammers into a Work Boat in the new city. Exploring Work Boat has moved 2 tiles less than in second test. Worker has chopped 2 forests (same as first test).

Once again I would like to emphasize that we do not need to switch to Slavery anytime soon. After the building of the Library our capital is at size 4, and we want to grow it to size 6 and keep it there ASAP for the dual scientists. We won't need to use the whip for some time, so there's no sense in wasting a key early turn in anarchy.

I was thinking for a moment that we'd need a Monument in the second city, but then remembered we're Creative. That trait definitely comes in handy! Allows us to start straight on the Work Boats, given that both the Fish are in the ocean. :D

Out of interest I tried the Worker first too.

Third test

Builds: Worker -> WB -> WB -> Settler -> Library -> Granary (placeholder)

Second city founded on turn 39 (-1 quicker than second test).

At start of turn 42, have 51 hammers in the placeholder Granary (-3 from second test), and 321 beakers in the placeholder Iron Working (+52 from second test), plus 15 hammers into a Work Boat in the new city. Exploring Work Boat has moved 8 tiles less than in the second test. Worker has chopped 4 forests. Also note capital is at size 5 (was still at size 4 in previous tests).

So in essence, either way I prefer no whipping - thus it comes down to the second test or the third test.

Summary

Going Worker -> WB. Pros: Gives us significantly more beakers (in excess of 50 extra); it allows us to found our second city a turn earlier (thus giving us 5 bonus hammers); it means the capital is at size 5 (and consequently size 6) a few turns earlier. Cons: We have chopped 4 forests rather than 2; our exploring Work Boat is 4 turns behind the other option.

Going WB -> Worker. Pros: Gives us a 4 turn bonus in exploration; gives us about the same amount of hammers but leaves us more forests still to chop. Cons: Extra turn to found the second city; much less beakers produced; capital growth is a few turns behind (still size 4 at turn 42).

After all that, would you believe I'm still undecided. :lol: I'll sleep on it and come to a decision in the morning. Basically if we go Worker next we're trading off a few turns of exploration and a couple of forests for a whole lot more beakers and slightly earlier/larger cities. On the other hand, if we go Work Boat next we're trading off a whole lot of beakers and a couple of turns of city growth for faster exploration and more hammers in the stockpile for later (from chopping forests).
 
I just ran a test to see what the difference would be if we waited until pop3 to 1pop whip the worker out and came up with the following results as compared to pindicator's Case#2:

Ran to Turn 41 for better comparison:
(pindicators test Vs whipping at 3pop)
Beakers in current tech: 59 Vs 54 (both have researched Mining, BW, Wheel, Pot, Wri and Sail)
Production after turn: 19 vs 31 (both have same units with library being last built)
food supplies: 17 vs 18 (will get us to pop 6 1 turn earlier)
Both cases have settler arriving at NW hill on turn 40 for settling on turn 41
Library is 1 turn later in the whip at 3pop.

What is our next build? Will getting it quicker be worth this alternative? Also getting to 6pop 1 turn earlier might be helpful for the academy.

Attached is the game file.

EDIT: Hope this works: http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=tg5E5CWt7kylQ49q3rbW1Ig#
Like dima42, I also can't access your spreadsheet.
 
Yeah those results are so close not sure which is better. Though we've already started the WB first path. Glad to see were not ignoring Wheel/Pottery, I was starting to get concerned about that.

Edit: I was able to access it, the spreadsheet. I used the link in post #211 though.
 
So what level are we planing on whiping the Worker from? Pop 3? Pop 2? If it's 3 then we need to continue working the Fish tile even after it goes to Pop 2.
The Worker has to be whipped from size 3 for the maximum efficiency, as far as I can see. But even then, it isn't as good as not going to Slavery or whipping at all.
 
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