Turn Discussion Thread

[Trystero]

3. we 've 7 turns now, before we can attack (mil. units: 5 cavs, 6 rifle, 2 mace; as Blub means 15-20 units are enough for first strike. Our prod-towns have ~380/turn

4. more personally, I'm a builder not a military whipper/drafter
so you must stop me sometimes/often, if I want a building more than the needed unit.

We cannot possibly attack Mavericks in 7 turns without leaving the rest of our territory virtually undefended. As I wrote in the Amazon diplomacy thread, there is a significant chance of us getting dog-piled if the diplomacy goes bad. I do not understand the insistence on rushing to attack Mavericks island at this point. They are almost completely crippled, and their island is surrounded by our territory. Who is going to beat us to the Mav home island? Quatronia? Their military is in shambles. Let them throw more units at Mavs cities.

What we need to do now is build up an overwhelming military force. We have rifles and will have cannons next turn. We are running military civics. Stop whipping cities that can work multiple mines and get them building units. I took a look at the game and it looks good so far. We should keep it up. In particular we will need to keep a lot of units in the area of new cities, since that is likely to be the area of most conflict. Also, we should have a stack at Bode's choke point, and another on Sol for defense. I agree with building drydocks and getting ships out. Military Science is not a bad idea here. Ships of the Line are great naval units.

I repeat: Keep building units. Everywhere. Lots of them.

We attacked earlier with fewer units to gain a strategic advantage. (And, I will point out, was only possible because we did not have to worry about aggression from other teams thanks to the ETTA). We have that advantage. Don't attack Mavericks until we are also ready to fight CDZ/Amazon.

 

[AlphaShard]

Yeah I have a feeling there are some double dealings going on. I think it would be best to get a very strong military out, Because were almost dead last.

Spoiler :

 

[HUSch]

There is Mav, Mer and Ama before us, in few turns that is other.
The settler are going for some spots there, so we 've a cultural combat. Needs our reli there.

 

[AlphaShard]

So now new turn and they moved the two settlers into the spoke area, plus a third one is now at the entrance of the spoke.

 

[AlphaShard]

We now have Democracy and Steel.

 

[BLubmuz]

We now have Democracy and Steel.

I think it's time to start a diplo discussion about the use of Emancipation. I think we must propose to any team in the ETT to never adopt Emanc. Otherwise we have 6 turns of slavery then we can revolt for free.

 

[HUSch]

So we 've to finish our research of scimeth, that the other 've possible goals, CDZ says they 've minimized their research.
I looked in game.
Techs avaiable:
RR 6727
Eco 2093 (Ama research this without getting in minus and they give EsP (from commerce) to Merlot)
milscience 2392
scimeth 569/3588 (we research with low rate).
So there are 2 techs (RR and ms) for 2 teams, one not so important til nothing (as AS, perhaps the other also, means) and RR an important and expensive tech.
My goal is after scimeth for physic (I think we should get the scientist for our tech gratifying)

 

[HUSch]

Blub
eman is the same as merka, end of ETT

 

[HUSch]

I 've looked in game and here my propose for building units now
If we want ships we should build a drydock first, so I would prevent it now in GA. Most important we need cannons for our/Blubs plan to conquer the Mavs Isle and we 've none siege now.
Building til end of GA
Sir build a rifle then cannons at least 2
Can build 3 cannons
Arc (HE-town) build Cavs or cannons 1 every turn
Vega build 4 cannons
Rigel finish grocer, then with 40 netto best XBs (with 4 XP) for upgrading later to mg or drydock as shipstown (cost 1 ), whipp after 1 turn and build a 8 XP frigate/EI, so that we get navi 1.
Proc best whipp the cav for pop 2 get a large overlay, grow this turn and build then 2 cannons
Achenar finish the dike now and build then drydock (if not in Rigel); our 2. drydock could be in Betei, if we need a 3. then in Vega.
Betei finish dike this turn (I've changed so) and build then mace or XB or drydock (if wanted)

So we get at least til end of GA 9 cannons (7 XP) + from Arc

The other build no military units.
Alcor should be whipped to get an overlay for forge.

If we needed more units, there is allways the possibility to whipp and get 2-3 more, ie in Can or Sir or Vega.

 

[AlphaShard]

Amazon hasn't finished Economics yet.

 

[HUSch]

My mistake, but the sit is the same.

I 've made a pic of possible founding sites for Ama.
Real good is no site, perhaps at the end of the spoke, but its allways difficult to manage a patchwork. Additional we are under no restrain to build libs very quick, what I would prefer btw our worker there should go at jungle and chop there, for the road I see no reason.

 

[Alltriia]

HUSch, there's also a free city spot 2E1NE from Alcor.

EDIT:
I've tested a couple of things.
Four frigates will neutralize the +60% city defence in two turns.
Cannons will deliver colateral damage to seven units.

If we can land defenders first on a hill (probably re-enforced with Guerilla), we can make the first bombardment while the forces land and in the next turn the cannons attack after the second naval bombardment and leave the rest for the cavalry to clean up. Is this doable?

And are we doing city-by-city or all at once?

 

[BLubmuz]

Four frigates will neutralize the +60% city defence in two turns.
Cannons will deliver colateral damage to seven units.

If we can land defenders first on a hill (probably re-enforced with Guerilla), we can make the first bombardment while the forces land and in the next turn the cannons attack after the second naval bombardment and leave the rest for the cavalry to clean up. Is this doable?

And are we doing city-by-city or all at once?

Or 3 in 3 turns, frigates can arrive sooner than land troops.
But there's an hole in this plan. The key in my plan are the cannons.
No unit, doesn't matter how powerful, can defend after 10 cats attack. If Mavs suicide all 10 cats on a stack, say of 8 rifles and 4 Cavs, they can easily wipe it.
But if we have cannons, things will change dramatically.
If they attack as described above, the cannons will defend and win. A cannon has 12 S. and Mavs can field max 8 S. units.
Then, we can heal in 2 turns thanks to our Super-medic and start wipe them.

If they do not use the cats, things will become complicated. Once we take a city, we must chase them, they are the only Mavs hope against our units. But we must use Cavs for flank and speed, but they must be covered by cannons, always to avoid to be reduced to dust.

Mavs can move 3 tiles in their territory, we only 1. We need to keep our units stacked until they have so many cats, so we need reinforcements. Basically, we need 2 stacks, roughly of the same size to be safe.

So the plan can be: land, take the Pyra city and hold it.
Wait for reinforcements, at least 4 more cannons and 4 mixed Rifle/Cav.
Use the ships to move one half of the first stack to join the 2nd (target: their Capital).

Well, we'll see how things will go. We must probably take in account also our "allies".

In case they try again an AP resolution, we must defy it. The worst we risk is some unhappiness in the Hindu cities, all very small. So we risk nothing.

 

[AlphaShard]

I think I would like to take two cities or at least scare them into thinkiing were doing two cities, anything to divide up that forces they have. I also am a big proponent of trying to get ride of those Cats before they can do their damage. That's why I proposed those landing sites so they couldn't be hit by Cats first, that Cavs could land and then next turn attack the cats, or at least scare Mav into moving them to safety.

Edit: the fact that they are NOT talking to us about those settlers, tells me they ARE getting ready for a back stab, they clearly do not care. It just seems stupid and careless to me.

Now if they wanted to settle a city to claim that marble that would be one thing, but they aren't talking about it either.

 

[Alltriia]

Might be worth to have a cavalery cat killer stack on the ground before the proper invasion, yes. Seven to nine cavalery units will wipeout twenty cats across a river and with the cats on a hill.

And yes, I'm worried about what the hell are Amazons doing with two settlers near Aldebaran and Alcor. They know our power and they're acting incoerently with thier (very few) words. If they settle a city right there, might be better to put a theatre in front of Aldebaran's queue and whip as soon as possible.

I would also like a complete defence upgrade as soon as possible(empire wide).

 

[AlphaShard]

Yes I have used Cavs to absolutly decimate Cat stacks.

I agree with Alltriia, we should prepare for the worst, Amazon isn't doing a good or "friendly" thing here with their settlers. I think they are in sight enough for us to just straight ask what they are doing with them.

I think we should at least have 1-2 (depending on where the city is) current units defending each city. We can use the next 5 GA turns to upgrade and properly fortify our current cities. Especially the ones on Anjen and Comet. Followed by putting some troops in that fort we made.

 

[Trystero]

And yes, I'm worried about what the hell are Amazons doing with two settlers near Aldebaran and Alcor. They know our power and they're acting incoerently with thier (very few) words. If they settle a city right there, might be better to put a theatre in front of Aldebaran's queue and whip as soon as possible.

I would also like a complete defence upgrade as soon as possible(empire wide).

Agreed. Amazon could build cities wherever they want if they raze our cities.

 

[HUSch]

Hello
Why should Ama make an attack at our cities? They 'll found cities at the spore, that is their right. If they want attack our cities they don't need settlers to founding new.

What is the plan for conquer Mavs isle? If we think that Ama 'll attack us, we we can't make a try for that.
I 've no fear of any culture-combat with Ama, btw why come you now with your suspect. 2 turns ago we gave them marple for our disadvantage.

All
You say we need 8 bombards of frigate to nullified the cultur-defense (that is what you can read in civ -8%) (Cannon -12%), so much we don't have. Additional we haven't the time to wait long.

 

[Irgy]

What's the timing with regard to our NAP with Amazon? It's got a good few years to go yet, doesn't it? The way things are I wonder whether they'd renew it, but I really don't expect them to dishonor it.

Amazon most likely plan to settle aggressively on this spoke because they feel wronged by our city-poaching and have decided to react by claiming as much land as they possibly can there without technically breaking any agreements. It's a little petty, but it's probably fair enough in it's own way too.

I haven't seen the settlers in-game though, so feel free to contradict or confirm my interpretation. I'll have a look at the situation myself tonight.

 

[AlphaShard]

I posted screen caps Irgy to show the settlers.