AlphaShard
Emperor
I agree city F should be moved 1E. I think someone will have to log in to offer OB to Amazon.
So were teching Alphabet next after Sailing?
So were teching Alphabet next after Sailing?
Turn Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Lord Parkin
- Start date
Trystero
Deity
Argh, I keep screwing up tile yields in my head (even with the "show tile yields" option on). FP are 3 Food, not 4 Food.
Also, I'm still thinking about the Oracle rush too much, where I tried to work the Gold as early as possible to speed up research. I agree, we should build two WBs first in Canopus and improve the Fish.I believe Irgy has already done so, but they've not responded yet. (Although they have played this last turn.)
I think that's not clear yet. It really depends on The Amazons response to our proposals, and what they could possibly offer in trade.
I haven't offered open borders yet. I'd rather wait until we get an actual reply from them. At the moment open borders won't help us at all so we're not in a hurry. It will help them though, so maybe it will prompt them to hurry up getting back to us.
Is anyone of the opinion that we shouldn't open borders?
I'd actually prefer their workboat explored around our island than have it find our western neighbours before we do, and open borders would encourage that.
Is anyone of the opinion that we shouldn't open borders?
I'd actually prefer their workboat explored around our island than have it find our western neighbours before we do, and open borders would encourage that.
By the way, this is from the main forum, in regards to the fact that Daveshack is away for a week or so:
Ignoring his lack of understanding of the various reasons why people might want to log in without playing the turn, he raises a good point that the more logging in the more chance of the game going down for a week and making everyone sad
.
So, I'd propose that we try and minimise logins that aren't for the purpose of playing the turn. We don't have to avoid them completely, simply avoid logging in just for the sake of it, and if you want to check something request the next person to play a turn to check it for you.
Ignoring his lack of understanding of the various reasons why people might want to log in without playing the turn, he raises a good point that the more logging in the more chance of the game going down for a week and making everyone sad
.So, I'd propose that we try and minimise logins that aren't for the purpose of playing the turn. We don't have to avoid them completely, simply avoid logging in just for the sake of it, and if you want to check something request the next person to play a turn to check it for you.
Trystero
Deity
I looked into this. If I understand this post correctly, you are correct in assuming they need to find our capitol. However, I think they also need Sailing since it involves trade along a coast.
Also: I discovered why I thought the yield from the FP near Canopus was 4F instead of 3F: when I built the island in World Builder for test games, I designated those tiles Plains instead of Desert. It was good to catch that.
We each definately need sailing, all the more reason to get it next.
Excellent work finding that post. I read it a little differently to you though:
From the last part, the tile only needs to be revealed if it's not owned by a non-hostile player. So, as we own the rest of the tiles needed to connect their capital, open borders should give them trade routes (if they have sailing anyway) even without their workboat needing to explore to our capital.
The effect of culture borders on treating ocean squares as coast is a little unclear, but I would imagine it will work.
On the whole, it's in our interest to delay opening borders until we have both revealed coast tiles up to their capital's culture border and have researched sailing. Otherwise they may be getting trade routes while we're not.
Lord Parkin
aka emperor
Since the little trade route symbol doesn't appear next to their name, they can't get trade routes with us yet. I'll have to do a test soon to see whether it's possible to get trade routes prior to Astronomy with the "ocean ring" we have around our island.
I've been out of things for a while, but how come someone is now beating us in GNP by 16 points? I see we're running 0% research... what's our GNP when it's on 100%?
I've been out of things for a while, but how come someone is now beating us in GNP by 16 points? I see we're running 0% research... what's our GNP when it's on 100%?
Amazon have apparently offered open borders in game. There doesn't appear to be anyone of the opinion we shouldn't accept it. So, it might be nice in principle to give a short amount of time for someone to voice a dissenting opinion, but whoever logs in next (presumably to play the turn) should accept the deal.
Personally, I think it would be fairly rude of us not to accept it. For all that I as recently as last post said:
This was only in relation to not offering it ourselves while waiting for them to get around to replying. I'm in favour of accepting it straight away.
We should be able to tell if they have sailing already by whether we have the option to trade resources with them. If they don't have it already, then we'll probably get it before they do.
Personally, I think it would be fairly rude of us not to accept it. For all that I as recently as last post said:
This was only in relation to not offering it ourselves while waiting for them to get around to replying. I'm in favour of accepting it straight away.
We should be able to tell if they have sailing already by whether we have the option to trade resources with them. If they don't have it already, then we'll probably get it before they do.
Trystero
Deity
I wondered about that too. A test would be a good idea. Can we share resources between our own cities if one is on the home island and the other on the mainland? I believe so, but I'm not certain.
We discussed this in your absence
, but GNP in Demographics includes tech research. We were #1 until we dropped the slider.I just did a test with the world builder. I built a situation like the one we have here, two civs were separated by a central island that they could both reach by sailing over cultured ocean tiles. I opened borders with the other civ, but found a few surprises. First my workboat was unable to enter their cultured ocean tiles, meaning I couldn't explore thier home island. Second there was no trade route established between our cities. I also tried revealing the map to both civs, but that didn't change things, they still couldn't trade over the ocean tiles. I didn't do complex situations like what happens when the two civs both have cities on the connecting island, but I think it's fairly unlikely that we're going to be able to establish trade routes with the Amazon's home island anytime soon.
AlphaShard
Emperor
Could the next person who logs in check our GNP with the science at 100 just so we can see what it is. 
I am unable to and I know we also want to keep logging to a minium.
I am unable to and I know we also want to keep logging to a minium.That's... pretty pants really. If we can't get trade routes over ocean using their culture borders, then it's going to be a long time before we can trade resources as well, as that requires our *capitals* to be connected by trade routes, which we can't easily do. We can get trade routes to and from their Andromeda cities, which is something, but no resource trading for a while to come. It's a rather unfortunate property of the map, although it will at least affect everyone.
It also means we might as well open borders, as it won't make a difference to anything for a while to come yet.
I feel a bit rude even asking this, but I can't help myself: You did give both civs the sailing tech right?
hell_hound
Prince
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2008
- Messages
- 409
(The following text is what I believe to be correct)
No, we can't connect directly to their capital overseas as that requires astronomy, but if they have a city on the mainland connected to one of ours on the mainland then they would be connected to our trade network, which connects to the capital andd the resources. So although we cannot get any trade routes from it, we will still be able to trade resources. The same thing applies with open borders, they cannot use their WB to explore our starting island using our borders, it would only work post optics or if they settled a city whose cultural borders crossed the ocean. This is why we are safe pre-astronomy.
No, we can't connect directly to their capital overseas as that requires astronomy, but if they have a city on the mainland connected to one of ours on the mainland then they would be connected to our trade network, which connects to the capital andd the resources. So although we cannot get any trade routes from it, we will still be able to trade resources. The same thing applies with open borders, they cannot use their WB to explore our starting island using our borders, it would only work post optics or if they settled a city whose cultural borders crossed the ocean. This is why we are safe pre-astronomy.
Yes I did give them sailing, and don't feel rude. It's perfectly reasonable to check for stupid mistakes on an important test like that. I'm kinda hoping I did make one, because I'd much rather trade with the Amazons than be right about this. In fact if anyone wants to create another test game and double check my results that wouldn't be a bad idea, it doesn't take long to do such a test.
Is a capital connection the only requirement for trading resources? If so we might be able to get around the problem by moving our capitals to Andromeda. If the other teams don't think of a trick like that we'll gain a significant advantage, being able to exchange resources while others can't. I know moving the capital is rarely a good idea, but I'm wondering if these strange circumstances might make it worthwhile.
Edit: Hell hound just beat me to the punch, if what he says is right, and we can trade resources once we both have cities on Andromeda, something I didn't test, then forget about moving the capital, it's worthless.
Is a capital connection the only requirement for trading resources? If so we might be able to get around the problem by moving our capitals to Andromeda. If the other teams don't think of a trick like that we'll gain a significant advantage, being able to exchange resources while others can't. I know moving the capital is rarely a good idea, but I'm wondering if these strange circumstances might make it worthwhile.
Edit: Hell hound just beat me to the punch, if what he says is right, and we can trade resources once we both have cities on Andromeda, something I didn't test, then forget about moving the capital, it's worthless.
AlphaShard
Emperor
Looks like our next city should be 1e of the F marker.
pindicator
Emperor
As of now I agree, but those warriors may turn up something else on the mainland
Trystero
Deity
If grant2004's conclusions are correct, I think Monarchy once again becomes a priority. Perhaps Amazons would be willing to research that. Or trade some of the pre-reqs? Alternatively, we could have them research something like Mathematics after we (possibly) trade them Writing.
I am also wondering if we should start thinking about pursuing the Great Library? The two free scientists would be a nice research boost in Sirius. And having the Amazons to tech trade with might free us to pursue Aesthetics > Literature. Especially given the security of our capital pre-Astronomy. I think expansion should be the immediate priority, but I'm just thinking longer term.
I am also wondering if we should start thinking about pursuing the Great Library? The two free scientists would be a nice research boost in Sirius. And having the Amazons to tech trade with might free us to pursue Aesthetics > Literature. Especially given the security of our capital pre-Astronomy. I think expansion should be the immediate priority, but I'm just thinking longer term.
Trystero
Deity
I played the next turn.
Sure. current demographics with the research slider at 0%:
And with the research slider at 100%:
Turn 39 - 2440 BC
Team AMAZON accepted our offer of Open Borders:
Voyager moved 1SE + 1S and discovered Team AMAZON's cultural borders:
Our worker, Lord Parkin, started moving toward the Gold hill at Canopus:
The research slider is currently at 0%. Next turn we complete the Library in Sirius, and move the research slider to 100%.
Could the next person who logs in check our GNP with the science at 100 just so we can see what it is.
Sure. current demographics with the research slider at 0%:
Spoiler :
And with the research slider at 100%:
Spoiler :
Turn 39 - 2440 BC
Team AMAZON accepted our offer of Open Borders:
Spoiler :
Voyager moved 1SE + 1S and discovered Team AMAZON's cultural borders:
Spoiler :
Our worker, Lord Parkin, started moving toward the Gold hill at Canopus:
Spoiler :
The research slider is currently at 0%. Next turn we complete the Library in Sirius, and move the research slider to 100%.
