Turn Discussion Thread

[BLubmuz]

One option is to have the galley we are building head south for a brief survey after dropping off the exploring warriors, while Voyager continues on its present course (heading eastward). I am concerned about the possibility that the canal might head back west rather than south, leading Voyager back to us.

The galley won't have time to explore so deep in south and to be home to load the settler.

If that is a canal, it's quite obvious that the land we see S is another landmass. In a way or another we can circumnavigate it.

The problem is that we lose turns (doubled, since Voyager have to go back) if that's not a canal. But i think that next turn can tell us the shape of that land.

 

[Trystero]

We need to play this turn in about 24 hours. I would still prefer to not risk a diversion to the south, but we should get feedback from others. The choices proposed then are: 1. Voyager continues on its current heading (east), 2. Voyager proceeds southwest (1 or 2 tiles) to determine the nature of that waterway.

 

[pindicator]

I think we should check out the inlet. If it does cut through the middle (like a 5 pointed star with the middle hollowed out) then we would be able to cut out a lot of time to contacting the next civ. I think 1 or 2 turn delay is worth that risk.

 

[Irgy]

I'm starting to lean towards taking a look through the centre as well.

If we had another vessel to explore that option with then I'd rather use that, but I suspect BLubmuz may be right that the galley won't have time to do it. A test game indicating how long it would take to build a settler and worker would tell us whether the galley has enough time or not.

At some point we'll want to explore to what seems to be the centre of the star shaped land, and whenever we do we risk losing a few turns contacting another civ. I don't think it will hurt us that much to try it now rather than later.

 

[Irgy]

(moved here from espionage thread)

I think worker before settler is too conservative as well. We want to stake our claim sooner rather than later -- especially if we are going to have a long NAP with them. Grab the good spots as soon as possible!

The settler race is not just about one city.

Eventually our first offshore-settled city is going to build a settler to claim some more land. Rushing a settler out now without a worker to support it will significantly delay its development, and in turn delay that future settler. To me, the future settler is just as, if not more likely to be the one making the difference for how much land we end up claiming. The first settler will just cause theirs to take a different spot, getting it out sooner won't even put us significantly ahead in the race.

If there was only one spot we were racing to, then sure, settler first. But we're really racing to settle an entire island, and the arrival of a single settler is not the issue, the overall development of the empire for the purposes of building as many settlers as possible in the future is what we need to consider, and rushing one across with no worker to support it hurts that quite a lot.

 

[Trystero]

If we had another vessel to explore that option with then I'd rather use that, but I suspect BLubmuz may be right that the galley won't have time to do it. A test game indicating how long it would take to build a settler and worker would tell us whether the galley has enough time or not.

I had a quick try at this. Not only to see how long the Galley would have to explore, but to address the Worker or Settler first question. I'm not claiming this is optimal, but I'm using it as a starting point for discussions:

*We can get both a Worker and a Settler in Sirius by turn 62 if we build the Worker in Canopus.
*Due to health considerations we cannot chop in Sirius.
*I chopped both a WB and the Worker in Canopus (2 of the 3 PFHs) to speed production.
*The Galley drops off the Warriors in Andromeda on turn 52, and must return to Sirius by turn 62 to ferry Settler + Worker.
*Some choices were arbitrary (i.e. Granary after the Worker in Canopus, using the free worker turns to partially build a cottage in Sirius), and might have better alternatives.

43: Sailing complete start Alphabet
44: Warrior complete in Sirius, start Galley
45: No action, Gold mine complete in Canopus
46: Canopus grows to size 2, works FP and Gold
Worker moves 1N to PFH to chop.
47: Start chop
48: No action
49: WB finished in Canopus, moves to Fish, start 2nd WB
Chop finished
50: Sirius grows to size 6 works 2 scientists + 2 Fish + 2 Gold
Galley finished in Sirius, start Settler
2 Warriors + Galley move to Andromeda
WB in Canopus improves Fish, Canopus works Fish + Gold
Worker moves 1NE to chop
51: Alphabet complete start Math/IW/Aesthetics? (Math in this example)
WB done in Canopus moves to 2nd Fish
Start chop in Canopus
52: WB improves 2nd Fish in Canopus, Canopus continues working Fish + Gold
Galley arrives at Andromeda, unloads Warriors, free to move.
53: chop finished in Canopus
54: LP free to start new action
55: No action
56: Worker2 finished in Canopus, starts Granary, Worker2 moves to 1W of Sirius
57: Mathematics done, start next tech
58: Worker2 arrives 1W of Sirius
59: Worker2 starts Cottage
60: No action
61: Canopus grows to size 3, works 2 Fish + Gold
Cancel Cottage build in Sirius (2 turns left)
62: Settler done in Sirius, boards Galley, Worker2 moves to Sirius boards Galley

 

[Lord Parkin]

Sorry for jumping in late (again). I haven't read everything, but I understand we're at a crossroads with exploration. For the record, my vote is to continue east around the outer edge of whatever continent/island setup this is. However, either way we'll uncover new information, so it shouldn't matter too much regardless.

Once again, apologies for not being around much lately.

 

[azzaman333]

Hi, I'm not dead, what have I missed in the past 2 weeks?

 

[AlphaShard]

Carthage founded Buddaism and built Stonehenge. India founded Hinduism and we met the Persians by going North, apparently they had the same idea and met us halfway lol. Now were discussing a NAP treaty with them and Tech trading once we tech Alphabet. We also founded Canopus.

 

[grant2004]

Irgy, can you explain why worker settler is more efficient than settler worker? The way I see it, if both are built in Sirius the pair of them will be done at the same time regardless of the order. If we build the worker first, it spends a few turns building improvements near Sirius, which we won't be able to use for a little while anyway. If we build the settler first it settles the city a few turns earlier, and uses those turns to get some extra food hammers and commerce. If we build one in Sirius and one in Canopus, it's different of course, but I imagined that we wanted to grow Canopus a bit before building workers and settlers there.

 

[AlphaShard]

He's talking about sending the Worker with the new Settler to make improvements for that city. Not just for improvements around Sirius.

EDIT: Also can we get a Thread just to list what names we want for Cities, Military units, Workers, exploratory units, etc. I just named our two Warriors Arcturus and Polaris because I couldn't remember or find those other lists.

 

[Lord Parkin]

Also keep in mind that the earlier a city is founded, the more turns it can put into building e.g. an extra Worker or Work Boat. So in that respect, spamming Settlers can be a good thing, as long as you have the military/agreements to protect them.

 

[grant2004]

He's talking about sending the Worker with the new Settler to make improvements for that city. Not just for improvements around Sirius.

Yeah, I'm aware that the point is to send the worker over to improve tiles around the new city, what I meant about the improvements around Sirius was that is what the worker would do while he's waiting for the settler to be built, he can't do anything at the new city site until the settler gets there, except for roads, which isn't all that great.

On the other hand, if the settler is produced first, while we're waiting for the worker to be finished, the settler can found the city and get a couple turns of work on unimproved tiles in. That seems like the more beneficial approach to me.

 

[BLubmuz]

Turn 43 -2280 BC

Moved Voyager 2e to reveal more land and clams.

Weren't we still discussing where to move Voyager? Moving it SW would have revealed if there's a canal.
And to contact another opponent, that canal can be the shortest path.

Now, if we want to see what it is, we'll lose 2 turns.

Please remember that Amazon start with a scout and if they sent their scouting WB N they probably know that there's nothing interesting S. But our Voyager is probably so far S that they don't know that possible passage.

For the settler/worker in Sirius, i think it's better settler the city ASAP. The worker will join later.
And if we see it's worth to settle another city in that island (?) the galley will serve as a ferry.

BTW, Voyager can tell us NOW if that is a small island or part of the land where Amazon are.

 

[AlphaShard]

Yes and if I had waited we would have missed moving the boat at all. Slaze logged in and just took his turn so we would have only had about 3 hours left. We can send the Exploring Warriors to find out quite easily if those land masses are connected, finding out now or later will make no difference. Meeting the next Civ over sooner then later I think is the prority, also making sure we don't miss a turn as well.

 

[BLubmuz]

Yes and if I had waited we would have missed moving the boat at all. Slaze logged in and just took his turn so we would have only had about 3 hours left. We can send the Exploring Warriors to find out quite easily if those land masses are connected, finding out now or later will make no difference. Meeting the next Civ over sooner then later I think is the prority, also making sure we don't miss a turn as well.

Sure, lose a turn for not loggin is a shame.
But you're still missing this:

And to contact another opponent, that canal can be the shortest path.

and let go the rest...

 

[Trystero]

Weren't we still discussing where to move Voyager? Moving it SW would have revealed if there's a canal.
And to contact another opponent, that canal can be the shortest path.

Yes, I actually thought we leaning more toward going to the SW "canal" (at least BLubmuz, Irgy, and pindicator expressed that opinion, with me dissenting).

Now, if we want to see what it is, we'll lose 2 turns.

Voyager has moved east again, so I think that option is out.

Yes and if I had waited we would have missed moving the boat at all. Slaze logged in and just took his turn so we would have only had about 3 hours left. We can send the Exploring Warriors to find out quite easily if those land masses are connected, finding out now or later will make no difference. Meeting the next Civ over sooner then later I think is the prority, also making sure we don't miss a turn as well.

I should have stated this explicitly, but since I suggested we wait and get opinions on the WB move, I was watching the clock and wouldn't have let us miss the turn. 3 hours was plenty of time. It's not a big deal though.

 

[AlphaShard]

That was the problem I didn't know if anyone WAS watching the clock.

 

[Trystero]

That was the problem I didn't know if anyone WAS watching the clock.

Yeah, sorry that was my fault. It's probably a good idea if someone wants to finish a turn that they post that intention.

And I'm not suggesting that I had to be the one to finish the turn necessarily, just that I wanted to make sure we had consensus.

 

[Irgy]

Turn 44 -2240 BC

Moved Voyager 1e & 1NE to reveal more land. The Maya have had a 12 point score jump. Carthage had a 6 point jump. The third warrior has been complete and work has started on the Galley which will be six turns. Alphabet is at 8 turns now.

If you read the micro thread, Canopus is supposed to switch to working silk this turn. It doesn't delay the growth, and it gets the workboat out a turn sooner, which pays back most of the difference in food for an overall net profit.

I go to the trouble of working out a way to get us a bit extra, I go to the trouble of having a micro thread to put it all in one place where people can see it at minimal effort, and people don't go to the very small effort of checking it before they move the turn. Trystero's recent test game didn't include it either, so it's not just the current turn. I was going to post a reminder, because I was expecting it to be missed, but we've played two turns in a row while I've been in bed so I missed my chance.

I've logged in and changed it, which I'm pretty sure still takes effect after end-turn is clicked, so it doesn't matter at all, I'm just a little irritated about it. And now I've had my rant about it I can move on.


Speaking of the micro thread, we're basically winging it now because we've run out of plans. We haven't decided what to do with the worker next turn for example. I suggest we build a floodplains cottage and save the forests for Math, which is just about around the corner. We might consider roading the gold before we move too, we don't need it to connect the gold, but we do want to build a road eventually and we lose a worker turn in the long run if we move off the tile before we do.