Turn Discussion Thread

[AlphaShard]

The game isn't done, Civ stats is apparently. I've already pmed Dave Shack and posted in the Game tracking thread.

I wasn't talking Hammer degradation, I thought we had already invested hammers in a dike but apparently not.

Also I see we can also build West Point, would we want this in Arcturus as well?

 

[HUSch]

If we build WP also, we get no units in Arc during GA, because the next 'll be drydocks.

 

[BLubmuz]

Also I see we can also build West Point, would we want this in Arcturus as well?

Sure, we can. But it is so expensive that hardly is worth building it, even with stone. After all it gives +4XP in a single city. Maybe after factories/coal plants. But by that time there is the Pentagon, expensive, but far more useful.

 

[BLubmuz]

If we build WP also, we get no units in Arc during GA, because the next 'll be drydocks.

Not much drydocks, please! 1 in the HE city and 1 somewhere on Sol. Maybe once the former mavs cities are developed another one there, maybe in Alcor.

BTW, do we want build the IW? Where, in case?

BTW i did not checked the list of the names when i renamed the cities, but those are the names ot a twin star system in Ursa Major.

Simply those names made me sick. I think Mavs have lost because their cities names... WTH.

 

[Trystero]

I agree with BLubmuz on West Point. Those hammers would do us much more good in units right now. We need more units. Both for an invasion force and to defend our territory. Don't forget to build units to defend Sol. I would also build a stack of mounted units for defense of Bode.

If you are going to build a drydocks, dedicate one city to building ships and build it there, as BLubmuz suggested.

 

[Irgy]

With cannons you're almost invulnerable. That's why i'm proposing them as our main invasion force. If Mav attack with cats, rifles or Cav will defend and the cannons remain unharmed. Then, if they will attack the cannons will defend. And they have no units to counter them. The GG will heal the stack, which will land next to a city, possibly on a hill. Next turn we can start wipe them.

If they do not attack we'll take the first city and at that point Cavs can use the flanking against the cats.

In the meantime reinforcements will arrrive. Just a matter of time, they are hopeless.

That sounds reasonable, we just have to make sure we have enough units.

One question, can cannons attack from ship? If they can, I still think attacking from the ships is a reasonable option though. The up side is once we take one city, we can land cavalry in it, and then unload and move on the same turn to get to the catapults. That way we don't even fight them. In a way, it's trading off the 50% penalty for amphibious attack against the reduced strength all the units will have after they get hammered with seige if they land. The attack from ship option might require less units, and is certainly lower risk. I'm not saying it's definately right, just worth keeping in mind.

 

[Irgy]

Oh and I agree with this not really being the time for West Point, and that dry docks should be built sparingly. I'd also add that dry docks in the HE city is a bad combination. Doubling up the two production bonuses is inefficient, better to have a HE city building land units and a separate drydocks city or two building ships.

BTW Alphashard did you request sheep while still having not traded marble, or has that been given now (I'm gathering it's the next turn by now, hard to tell with civstats playing up)? Just saying it looks bad to be demanding resources when we haven't given out ours is all...

 

[Trystero]

One question, can cannons attack from ship? If they can, I still think attacking from the ships is a reasonable option though. The up side is once we take one city, we can land cavalry in it, and then unload and move on the same turn to get to the catapults. That way we don't even fight them. In a way, it's trading off the 50% penalty for amphibious attack against the reduced strength all the units will have after they get hammered with seige if they land. The attack from ship option might require less units, and is certainly lower risk. I'm not saying it's definately right, just worth keeping in mind.

I do not believe siege units can attack from a ship. I think they could at one point (maybe this was Vanilla?) but it was patched.

 

[BLubmuz]

Drydock in the HE city is almost a waste in terms of hammers, but it gives also +4XP. But i can agree that is better specialize the cities, so maybe is better not build it there.

No, siege can not attack amphibious. That was patched in 3.19. Until then they could, as they continue to do in Vanilla/WL.

About marble, i started the HE to give it to Ama in 2 turns, but if you already gave it to them, better finish the dike first.

 

[Irgy]

I haven't traded it to them yet myself, was just asking if Alphashard had.

Ok, if seige can't attack from ships then Blubmuz's landing strategy sounds decent. The good thing is that if they slam us with the catapults, and the cannons survive, the option opens up to attack with some reinforcements from a ship anyway after the cannons have weakened the defenders. Which they couldn't have done without trying to land them somehow. Like I said before, we just need to make sure we have enough units to get away with it. If they can smack us with siege, soften the cannons with suicide troops and finish us off with other units then we'll do very badly. If we have a big enough stack that won't be a problem.

 

[AlphaShard]

No I first checked Arcturus, saw that we have more then enough hammers to finish HE and gave Marble to Amazon.

Then I opened a new trade window and asked for sheep after already offering Marble.

It's still turn 1110 AD, there's very little to do this turn unless we want to change build orders we have 20+ hours to do so.

Sommerswerd was on and accepted both trade proposals. Our health problems have cleared up!

 

[HUSch]

Cost and gains of drydock in normal towns with forge
cost of drydock 120 => 96 netto (in orga 80)
cost of frigate 90 => (forge) 72 => (dryd) 52
So cost is 96 and gain (at frigate) 20, so if we build 5 frigates in this town we have the cost back.
Here I don't compute the XP-gain and the health-lost.
In HE town the gain (at frigate) is only 7 (from 40 to 33).

I think we build Drydock in 1 town only.

For the combat at Mav:
They 've not enough units against mounted (only 2 WE) or gp-units. Against cannons they 've nothing. At best we land the cannons in our known tile and attack Injinya, to get the Pyra. But you know, we are not alone in this plan.

 

[HUSch]

i looked in the game, changed at Arc to dike.
Where is mariner going? We want to bomb the mav towns. I would prefer Injinya

 

[HUSch]

Another question
At 1130 we can change civics, and we should clear what we want then.
I vote for military units so vassal and theo, additional slave (costs some at WS) and Rep (better than HR).
The cost of the change is in Arc, we 've then 122/180 in dike with 41 or 43 netto (with orga 61 or 64, without 51 or 53) in turn longer. We could wait 1 turn with civic-change, but then there are problems in Sir, Can, Vega to build anything other than rifle or cavs.
Sit :
Sir has then 55 netto and job-queue bank with 58/200, musk (then rifle) with 72/110, cüra (then cav) with 85/120
Can has then 76 netto and job-queue musk (then rifle) with 60/110, cüra (then cav) with 76/120
Vega has then 88 netto and job-queue Lb (then rifle) with 35/110, cüra (then cav) with 71/120
For me Vega would with river (+2 ) a good drydockspot, could be build in that turn. Sirius could give the prod in the bank, but what should we do in Canopus?

generally I would delay the civic-chance 1 turn.

 

[AlphaShard]

Mariner was returning from the other side of the spoke, Bombing Injinya sounds good now rather then waiting till later. I still would like more Frigates though, we have too few as is.

 

[AlphaShard]

Not much drydocks, please! 1 in the HE city and 1 somewhere on Sol. Maybe once the former mavs cities are developed another one there, maybe in Alcor.

BTW, do we want build the IW? Where, in case?

BTW i did not checked the list of the names when i renamed the cities, but those are the names ot a twin star system in Ursa Major.

Simply those names made me sick. I think Mavs have lost because their cities names... WTH.

So long as we stick to star names it's all good. Those were good names you put in Bulbmuz.

 

[Irgy]

No I first checked Arcturus, saw that we have more then enough hammers to finish HE and gave Marble to Amazon.

Then I opened a new trade window and asked for sheep after already offering Marble.

It's still turn 1110 AD, there's very little to do this turn unless we want to change build orders we have 20+ hours to do so.

Sommerswerd was on and accepted both trade proposals. Our health problems have cleared up!

Ok, that sounds good then. Great work Alphashard.

 

[Trystero]

Regarding the frigates bombarding Mavs: Are we attacking Mavs home island soon? (this is a question, not a criticism)

Regarding Amazon diplomacy: Have we decided what we are going to do about their city request? That seemed to be as big a concern of theirs as the marble was (and understandably so).

Random thought after reading about espionage somewhere: Put a spy (or spies) in Mavericks territory. On the turn we attack, cause them to revolt to new civics. I think this can be done every turn. You'd leave them in a constant state of anarchy unable to whip any additional defenders. Or am I missing something?

 

[BLubmuz]

Random thought after reading about espionage somewhere: Put a spy (or spies) in Mavericks territory. On the turn we attack, cause them to revolt to new civics. I think this can be done every turn. You'd leave them in a constant state of anarchy unable to whip any additional defenders. Or am I missing something?

Yes, that they are Spiritual, so no anarchy. But the spies can cause unrest, so we don't need to bombard the city first and they can't whip in the turn we attack.

 

[HUSch]

Civic change with spyies is allways possible, but their is no anarchy, only that they get another civic for at least 5 turns. Possible is change out of police.
Tryst
Yes, we want the attack quick after GA (I think), we get 5 military towns with 1 unit (cannon, rifle, cav) in 2 turns. 6 turns are 15 units. There is no reason for wait. And we lost nothing if we bomb Injinya with frigate.