Turn Discussion Thread

[BLubmuz]

This can be posted also in the Ama diplo thread, but i have more.

I think their conduct with settlers is at least suspicious, as is their delay in answering and their actual (delayed) answer to my proposal for a military coordination.

I start thinking that the marble issue was raised in that way because they need some excuse to break the NAP.

Also, we have a detailed agreement for settling Anjennida to an extent where we was forced to not build libraries and so on.

Now they continue their almost meaningless communications and they move 3 settlers around with no communication on this regard.

Let's prepare for war, Mavs can wait some turn. And let's see how our proposal to CDZ will work out.

Provided war with our present allies won't happen (but we must keep our borders well garrisoned), the Mavs' war plans:

Landing with any unit not stacked with cannons is a suicide. Why? Cats can move faster than Cavs in their territory and your plan doesn't takes in account that Cavs will be frozen the turn they land. They can easily keep the cats 3 tiles from cavs and attack. Cavs will be reduced to dust and then wiped by anything stronger than a warrior.

Only cannons, with their immunity to collateral from siege (like any other siege, BTW) can save us. Strange you do not realize a so simple tactic.

I'm a bit weak on ancient/medieval warfare, but very strong in industrial/modern.
Sure, if they would have Cavs cannons will work a lot worst, so we would need Artys, but this is not the case.

 

[HUSch]

I see the important side of cannons so we build them now, as I posted above. at least 9 til end of GA.

 

[Irgy]

Blubmuz, I think you're completely over-reacting, and it's the sort of over-reacting that could make your concerns a self-fulfilling prophecy. It's not a situation we want. There's a perfectly reasonable explanation, which is that they're settling the spoke out of spite for us poaching their city. It suggests a poor diplomatic situation, but that's not exactly news either. There's no reason to think it means a pact breaking war declaration. If we start stacking up troops in the area they're going to think we're planning to break the NAP ourselves and then things will really turn to in a way that we can't ever fix.

My plan is simply this: I'm going to tell them that they're welcome to settle filler cities on that spoke, but their doing so cements the fact that we're not giving them the city back. Given that, we can hopefully just call it even and move on. They'll still be a little annoyed at us, but it's something repairable.

 

[Trystero]

Hello
Why should Ama make an attack at our cities? They 'll found cities at the spore, that is their right. If they want attack our cities they don't need settlers to founding new.

What is the plan for conquer Mavs isle? If we think that Ama 'll attack us, we we can't make a try for that.
I 've no fear of any culture-combat with Ama, btw why come you now with your suspect. 2 turns ago we gave them marple for our disadvantage.

I argued for giving Amazon Marble, because it was what we said we were going to do, and I thought we should try to mend our relations with Amazon after the city-poaching dispute. At the time I said we needed to gift the city to Amazon to avoid having to worry about conflict with them. Since it seems we are not going to give them the city, I think we should be extremely cautious when dealing with Amazon.

You don't think potential city-spamming in disputed territory would be an aggressive move on their part?

 

[Irgy]

It is an aggressive move, but it's not a military move. It's not breaking any agreements. There's a big gap between doing something unfriendly but frankly entirely justified and breaking a formal agreement.

 

[Trystero]

Fair enough. My point being that relations with Amazon appear to be deteriorating, so that some caution is called for.

FWIW, I don't think Amazon are deliberately trying to break the NAP.

 

[Irgy]

Just a question for everyone:

Are we ever planning on settling the two remaining Anjennida cities? Personally I think they should have been settled by now. But given that they haven't been, I can only speculate a lack of interest in doing so - we possibly have much higher priorities at the moment. And the longer we wait the less useful those cities become anyway.

If we don't ever plan to settle them, does anyone object if I offer one or other of those sites to Amazon? This might help settle down the current situation without conceeding Mirza. It also might not, but I at the very least won't be conceeding any sites unless it's quite thoroughly confirmed that it will resolve the situation.

 

[AlphaShard]

This can be posted also in the Ama diplo thread, but i have more.

I think their conduct with settlers is at least suspicious, as is their delay in answering and their actual (delayed) answer to my proposal for a military coordination.

I start thinking that the marble issue was raised in that way because they need some excuse to break the NAP.

Also, we have a detailed agreement for settling Anjennida to an extent where we was forced to not build libraries and so on.

Now they continue their almost meaningless communications and they move 3 settlers around with no communication on this regard.

Let's prepare for war, Mavs can wait some turn. And let's see how our proposal to CDZ will work out.

Provided war with our present allies won't happen (but we must keep our borders well garrisoned), the Mavs' war plans:

Landing with any unit not stacked with cannons is a suicide. Why? Cats can move faster than Cavs in their territory and your plan doesn't takes in account that Cavs will be frozen the turn they land. They can easily keep the cats 3 tiles from cavs and attack. Cavs will be reduced to dust and then wiped by anything stronger than a warrior.

Only cannons, with their immunity to collateral from siege (like any other siege, BTW) can save us. Strange you do not realize a so simple tactic.

I'm a bit weak on ancient/medieval warfare, but very strong in industrial/modern.
Sure, if they would have Cavs cannons will work a lot worst, so we would need Artys, but this is not the case.

Actually my plan DID take that into account which is why I picked the hills that I did, they don't have any visible road to those hills. I still think multiple stacks may be the way to go, to divide up their forces and make them fight in more then one spot.

The Whale city on Ajenda NEEDS to be settled and I don't care if it's us or Amazon that does it.,

 

[Alltriia]

I'm up for settling. Better to do it sooner than later.

EDIT: BTW, we can't build the Statue of Zeus anymore, can we? I think we overlook that at the time, or it isn't that usefull?

 

[HUSch]

We 've no monuments, so there is no Zeus.

The free good spots at Anjen are Amas territory, the jungle city is really not so good because Proc is working the res-tiles.

Alpha what is the reason for landing with our troops at tiles from which they 've no effect. We wait then or want to go then at other tiles? Additional Mav 've fast-worker, so they can build roads everywhere in their turn and attack, see the last lost of our army near Copper. We must land and attack the next turns and the idea of Blub "to take cannons aren't injured from cats as defends against their direct attacks" is good in my ears. We can hold with some cannons the hill near Injinya and bomb the town in 1 turn to 0 defense (5*12% = 60). Next turn half attacks then the cavs attacks/conquer and capture or have to wait for next turn (if there are too many units). When we capture the town 4-5 cannons defend it, til our culture comes there, for that it would not bad to 've a missio for +1, so we get 10 in 4 but in 5 turns. After that we are safe I think.

 

[AlphaShard]

Husch since your in the game I can't take screen caps, I won't be able to take them since I'll be at work and the turn will end. Could you take them for the turn tracking thread?

 

[HUSch]

HUSch, there's also a free city spot 2E1NE from Alcor.

I don't see the tile but if they settle there, I would make a gratulation to them for giving us a good cause in our handling CDZ. I think that is, what CDZ needs, a culture combat with Ama and vice versa. No they/Ama want to settle at tiles against us, because as Irgy sais, they are pissed of, but don't want to braeke pacts with us. The culture combat is lost for them I think. If you think only at the marple spot, the goood founding sites are 2*w of marple with both oasis and clam in the first range, then they need culture to get the marple spot, which is in our culture before they are there and found their town. We can all see what the combat is at Anjennida and there its friendly from us, if we had there build our libs quick as is usually with cheap libs, then .... But there was a pact and we hold it, in this spore is no pact. As the time is, we get no millenium cultural-boni. But in few turns we 've ther and closed settled territory, they couldn't see in towns, but we can look at their and see their units. I like it so.

 

[HUSch]

Husch since your in the game I can't take screen caps, I won't be able to take them since I'll be at work and the turn will end. Could you take them for the turn tracking thread?

I can make it.
btw
I 've whipped in Altair as I posted before.

 

[Alltriia]

Posted where, HUSch? I'm trying to find it.

 

[HUSch]

Here, but I named the city wrong Alcor instead of Atair. We can't whipp in Alcor.

but
btw I must search a long time to find my own post. I thougt already I wouldn't post it all.

Also I 've whipped the cav in Proc to get an overlay to build a few more cannons quick.

I would prefer in other towns also, I 'll look and mad suggestions about good whipping, in Can there is also the possibility to whipp in 2 turns the cannon with overlay to build another 2 quick, I think.

Another to decide
Where want we build the drydock in Rigel or Achenar? we should know this next turn, because we can then build it in one from them (more then one isn't really good).

 

[AlphaShard]

Thanks for posting in the Turn tracker thread Husch.

I think the Drydock would do well in rigel.

I still want to get that top whale point taken care of so we can use the Frigate, I hope the unit I placed in Rigel's queue is still there for that spawn busting job. Until someone settles it, it's still a spawning point for barbs.

I still think there agressive settling is a rather ballsy thing for the amazon to be doing, poached city or no. I think they should have opened discussion about this, they had said "we will leave in friendship" it doesn't look that way at all. I am annoyed that they didn't say "we'd like to settle here, here or here" it just seems a little messed up and sneaky.

 

[Alltriia]

Is the whip done when the city reaches the population cap?

HUSch, you're good with micromanagement. What's the best way to do what I sugest here? If they do settle there, that is.
Aldebaran get a population increase in three turns and there's also a forest tile(possibly two?) that can be chopped to help.

EDIT:
Another thing. Hadar expands in four turns and Altair in nine. Will we be able to get atleast one of SpotB's elephant camps in our borders?

 

[AlphaShard]

Husch usually whips when the production is nearly complete, I don't think he has given any regard to pop cap yet. He wants to maximize the overflow with the Forge+Org bonuses.

 

[BLubmuz]

About the settling question posed by Irgy:

Time ago i pushed for settling and develop quickly Bode, as we did with some delay (at least to my taste).
But i clearly remember we decided to not settle in Anjennida, due to the poor site and to the overlap with the easternmost city on Bode.

I think the whales site in Anjennida was claimed by Amazon and it's very poor compared to the one on Bode.

I think we can settle there only if pursuing a Dom Vic.

To make it short, i don't see any spot worth the effort. No more settlers, for me.

@Alpha
On another topic, to be frank, your idea to land faraway from cities in non-roaded hills is not good at all. Mavs don't need roads in the tile to attack, they need them to arrive there. And roads are in place.

No we must land 8 cannons, 4 cavs, 8 rifles (5 EIs) on a hill near their Capital or near the Pyra city (the one best fitting with logistic problems). When time arrives i'll make a detailed plan before to put it on act.
We also need 4 more cannons, 2 rifles and 2 cavs (2 EIs) almost ready to be landed near the other city. They can also serve as cannon food for their cats, i don't care. Once the first stack is healed and they do not have so many cats, they're lost.

But we can keep building advanced troops and send them to the front.

 

[AlphaShard]

We pumped three settlers out one right after another, how is that delayed?

Yeah I misjudged the roads.

Amazon doesn't seem to want that spot, that spot needs to be settled so we don't have to worry over barbs. I know it's a sucky city but Dom victory isn't a bad idea.