Turning AI friends into enemies?

[Alric]

Hello,
I want to attack a weak civ with borders very close to my capital, but he has a devensive pact with another much more powerful civ (also my friend).
Is there a way to make the more powerful civ hate the less powerful one, so I can attack him?

In other words if two AI's are friendly towards each other, is there a way to make them annoyed or cautious with each other? (i'm in the start of industrial age)

Let me know what you guys think.
thanks

 

[Pres. Slayback]

Hello,
I want to attack a weak civ with borders very close to my capital, but he has a devensive pact with another much more powerful civ (also my friend).
Is there a way to make the more powerful civ hate the less powerful one, so I can attack him?

In other words if two AI's are friendly towards each other, is there a way to make them annoyed or cautious with each other? (i'm in the start of industrial age)

Let me know what you guys think.
thanks

You can get the weak civ to declare war on a third party, therefore Voiding the DP...that's the best I can do right now...

 

[Cam_H]

I'm afraid to say that I don't like your chances in the short term, although if you've got some very compelling technology bait or a psychotic geared up AI tribe looking for a fight, perhaps you have something to work with.

My 'off the top of the head' thought would be a combination of something along these lines ;

• Try to separate their religions if they indeed are of the one faith by swamping one with an alternative. If one converts to another religion, it might be sufficient tension to break their partnership.

• With some massive trading assets, you may be able to tempt one of them into cancelling deals with the other.

• You might be able to dogpile in another AI tribe to break the Defensive Pact partners by asking one of them to declare war on this 'third party' tribe or conversely the 'third party' AI tribe declares war on one the Defensive Pact partners triggering the other to declare war and cancelling the Pact.

I'm sure other posters will come up with some

ideas.

[Edit] Cross post with Pres. Slayback! [/Edit]

 

[KMadCandy]

as far as actual DPs, if one party declares war, the DP is automatically cancelled. so sometimes bribing one of the folks into war can work in your favor, if the friend doesn't decide to dogpile in. of course the one you bribe will ask you for help in the war, so that will have a diplomatic effect or delay your planned attack on the less powerful one.

it is also sometimes possible to get one party in a defensive to stop trading with the other party. it's usually very expensive, since they're by definition betraying a friend, and often it's redlined. tokugawa is one example that i've done it with tho. he's a weirdo, he will never sign a PA, but he'll sign a DP at Pleased and most leaders will only sign one at Friendly. but, he's even tho he's quick to sign DPs, he's also rather easy to bribe into not trading with his DP partner. i bribed him to stop trading with whoever the DP was with. this does not cancel the DP directly. but it was enough to take the other leader from Friendly down to Pleased, and then they broke the DP because their limit was Friendly.

getting one party to change religions or civics, if the two are getting along partly due to modifiers in those areas, might do the trick too.

i don't know of an easy way to get AIs straight from friendly down to annoyed or cautious, like you asked in your second paragraph. well, if catherine is one of the parties it can be easy. she can actually be bribed into declaring war on someone she is Friendly with, and that is usually enough to make that person Annoyed . the stop trading, convert religion, change out of the other guy's favorite civic if it's not his own favorite civic too, ideas that i suggested don't usually drop things down to cautious, but it's usually enough to go from Friendly to Pleased, and that's usually enough. for all but 5 or 6 leaders, you have to be friendly to get (and keep) a DP. they watch how much they like you, and if you drop below the limit they will break off the DP.

edit: haha a very late crosspost! i started replying, then talking on the phone, and didn't check for new replies before i finished and entered mine.

 

[Alric]

Mehmed is the powerful civ that has a defensive pact with a weaker civ Cyrus that I want to attack.
Nobody really wants to declare war on anyone, I can probably get some wars going but none that will impact Mehmed or Cyrus (neither want any wars with anyone).
I am good friends with mehmed (+16 relationship and no negatives), maybe I can declare a war with cyrus, and after a few turns declare peace with Mehmed since they lose the defensive pact? How many turns do you think I'll have to defend against Mehmed before he starts talking again?

 

[KMadCandy]

i think they refuse to talk for 10 turns, but i'm going by memory.

if you try the trade embargo thing, or change civics thing, to try to weaken their friendship without going to war yet, it's important to note that cyrus is one of the few leaders that will sign and keep a DP at Pleased, not just Friendly. so you'd have to be sure that mehmed drops from friendly to pleased towards cyrus, that will be enough for him to break the DP but would not be enough for cyrus to break it.

 

[Alric]

actually Mehmed is pleased with me, and the DP still holds. This is going to be tougher than I thought

 

[KMadCandy]

actually Mehmed is pleased with me, and the DP still holds. This is going to be tougher than I thought

oops not with you. i mean with Cyrus. his DP is with cyrus right? and he's friendly with cyrus? mehmed's limit for signing (and keeping) a DP is friendly. so, if he drops to pleased with cyrus, then he'll break the DP on his own. the trick is to find some way to make him like cyrus a little bit less.

 

[Alric]

Yes, Mehmed has a DP with me (pleased), and a DP with Cyrus (friendly)
Also: Cyrus has 4 different civics than Mehmed.

Too bad I can't have spies yet. I would have intimidated Cyrus to the point that he'd declare war.

 

[KMadCandy]

oh weird, from my understanding he wouldn't keep one just at pleased. good to be wrong sometimes tho, it'll end up helping you in the game if he sticks by your side *giggle*.

civics would be favorite civics. and there you won't have any luck, they both have the same one vassalage. because it's their favorite i don't think you can convince either one to change out once they're using it. maybe you can annoy cyrus enough that he'll declare war on you, but that's just about impossible if he's quite weak, he's not a military psycho like monty is.

good luck!

 

[Ecofarm]

As long as you are finishing him, unreasonable demands!

 

[Alric]

actually, Cyrus isn't currently keeping vassalage. I know this because I can convince him to change to it.