Turnplay Log

[PrinceMyshkin]

Yeah, MM heaven. I've got to go through each city 3 or 4 times to get the tiles right.

We've got 72 turns until 1390AD, but we could win as early as 64 turns. Nobody is modern yet, but the science teams are acting as a block for sure to share free techs. The tech pace isn't slow even though Free is no longer in a GA, but it's not 4-turn tech, either. The Babes are 3-turns from combustion now and one team on the science block is 3-turns into mass production. The price of combustion dropped one turn after we got steel. They'll probably reach the modern age in about 10 turns by splitting research, giving them 50 or so turns of modern age to beat us.

I think it might depend on what free techs they get on the age change. If we're really lucky they'll all get the same tech and it won't be computers for research labs. The good thing is the Babes will have marines by then and might do some damage. They'll have to face war-weariness and less lux by declaring on us which would slow research. I suppose if they all get different techs and share research through the MA they might be able to launch the spaceship just before we reach 100K. We should be able to defend ourselves pretty well for a long time against even modern weapons. Do they not want to beat each other? Or just us and share victory somehow? I think its gonna be close.

 

[Yilar]

Hello everyone.

This is my first post in this forum. Ginger_Ale assigned me to join team Gong

I don't have much experince with all the details that you guys seem to have with all your analysing programs, as I normally play Multiplayer, and we just do everything on the fly .

But I had a look at the save and I somehow doubt we are gonna be able to win that easily on 100k culture. I somehow doubt that the other teams are gonna let us simple sit back and wait for the win. I predict we are gonna get double teamed if not triple teamed (no idea on alliance situation atm). I'm not entirely sure what do about it, as I i've never ever gone for a 100k win as the "underdog".

I noticed another thing. We have an insane amount of unit support left to use. Why don't we use some of the "Happy" and "maxed" out cities (cap+moon+sugar) to draft some infs and use for them MP duty around our nation? We just draft every time the city can grow from size11 to size12 in 1 turn. We have no need for 12 happy people in the core cities.

 

[PrinceMyshkin]

Hello, Yilar. Welcom to Team Gong.

I mostly play "on the fly" myself. The only program I use is CivAssistII which mainly just puts info you could gain from the save with some calculation in a handy format.

Certainly, 100K will not be easy, but we are only 70 turns or so away. The team chose to attempt this victory a long time ago when it was clear we were on an island with no real chance of an attack until marines. We can definitely expect an attack eventually. Right now, we are allied with Team Babe and sending them cash to research combustion. They are already in a mostly phony war with Team Saber and The Council. Team Free has had a GA and completed the ToE gaining them tech through Electronics. They are just 3-techs from the modern age and are probably friendly with the Council and Saber. The price of scientific method has not dropped, so they have not shared this with other teams just yet.

There is a few reasons why we won't see an attack at least for the next 20 turns. The science teams would have to give up luxuries and face war-weariness which would slow their research quite a bit. I suspect they want to at least get some tech in the modern age before they start an attack. They also may feel they can gain a victory by some other means before we can reach 100K. With that said, we do need to be ready. We've started the production of units at Graceland and will soon do so at our other two big cities. We need boats in the water to warn of an impending invasion force and some cavalry and artillery as a reaction force. Other cities in the core will also be producing units soon as we are done building culture there.

We had drafted some units from the capital earlier, but the following picture should help explain why I am hesitant to do so now.

Graceland has 26 sources of happiness but still has two unhappy citizens. In the event of war with just one team it would lose 8 happy faces and riot without mp's. Also, our treasury is on barely able to stay solvent now. The removal of just one citizen from any of our big cities loses 3-5 gpt. Covering the difference will slow growth throughout Gongland. DSOTM and Sugar Mtn are in WLTKD and would grow back very slowly if we use the draft there. If we spare the whip from them they can remain productive at size 12 even if we lose 5 luxuries during a triple-team. Some of our core cities will be able to use the draft soon as they complete markets and grow just a bit since they would only lose specialists.

Our high unit support will aid us greatly in the future as all other teams are in Republic. Our low war-weariness is also an advantage in case of war. We only need to play defensively to win and won't require an expensive and risky invasion force. I think winning will be quite tough, but I also think we have a chance.

 

[PrinceMyshkin]

We send one more 40 gold payment to the Babes. We again come up with another 40 gpt in case we need to send them another payment the turn after. Our tax-men will switch to engineers to speed completion of markets next turn and citizens will be set to maximum growth throughout Gongland. Only 3 towns are growing slowly to come up with the 40 gold next turn.

In production this turn:

Nutbush City=>colosseum-courthouse in 14

We are now making 810cpt and will be making 821cpt next turn with culture doubling. Our 13 workers chop 10 shields into a university at E Street and plant another for a chop there againg next turn. DSOTM will complete its factory next turn and should be able to make destroyers every 3-turns until we have enough for an early warning naval screen. It may then get a coal plant and build Magellan's Voyage, to be determined in the furture. Graceland will produce our first cavalry next turn. We can expect it to produce 9 more by 1000AD. Sugar Mountain will finsh its factory and then build a coal plant as it will be possible to build 1-turn units there every 3rd turn. Plans for Universal Suffrage there I think should be scrapped as it would have no fall-back if we were beat to it and the pressing need for more units.

Nutbush City becomes our 8th city and will grow to size 8 in 1 turn. It may be able to draft units soon as it works on a courthouse. GWOF and Dirty Old Town will continue to make workers as possible add-ins, to deal with pollution when needed and to chop forests. We still have 800-1000 shields left to chop into production throughout Gongland.

 

[Yilar]

Maybe this is some kind of strange settings scenario. But as far I remember the game lets cities use their food to growth before counting commerce and shields. Meaning if we draft from a size 12 city with a full storage of food, it would grow back to size12 the following turn WITHOUT any form of loss. Also the people are only unhappy for 20 turns when drafting.

We are talking about maybe 3-4 drafts over 20 turns from each city, hardly anything that the city is gonna go into anti draft mode over. I would worry a bit less about unhappiness at this point as both Moon and Sugar got 12 happy people, which is kidda unneeded as their corruption is basically nothing anyway.

 

[PrinceMyshkin]

Hm, I didn't know that about no loss. Alright we'll draft from Graceland and DSOTM next turn. Sugar Mtn has no growth so we'll skip it there. Our other cities are close to finisishing markets and can draft some soon. We do need more units and mp's. We were strong versus all the science teams 10 turns ago and it would be nice to know how far behind we are now. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[killercane]

Yilar is correct it will grow back next turn. Size 11, grow in 1.

 

[Yilar]

Hm, I didn't know that about no loss. Alright we'll draft from Graceland and DSOTM next turn. Sugar Mtn has no growth so we'll skip it there. Our other cities are close to finisishing markets and can draft some soon. We do need more units and mp's. We were strong versus all the science teams 10 turns ago and it would be nice to know how far behind we are now. Thanks for pointing that out.

I wouldn't worry to much about them being strong if they were weak 10 turns ago. They probably drafted a bit or built a few vet cav/infs. Our 46 warriors only equal the same strength as about 5-6 infs... Most of our army is severly outdated. But as long as we don't gangbanged or nuked we should be fine.

Also isn't it considered cheating trading workers to minimize unit support?
Team Saber and The Council seems to clearly haven traded workers to do exactly that. Or is this allowed?

Also I'm questioning the need for cavs. We are gonna try and get a "defensive" win here. Infs can be upgraded to mech infs for just lousy 30 gold (with leo). Arti+cavs is a great SP tactic, but im questioning the usefullness of it against real players. They are not just gonna land a handfull of units every turn that we can bombard with 20 artis. No, when they land it will be massive! Like 60 or 80 units. We need units that can counter attack them on the turn they land, and this is where vet mechs become usefull. 12atk instead 6atk means a lot!

Also what is the current diplomacy situation? We are allied with BABE, I get that. But what about the other teams? Are they allied all of them? To me it seems like TC and Saber are allied, but what about team FREE?

 

[PrinceMyshkin]

I think the trading of workers is allowed in this game. We traded the Sugar Mountain to the Babes awhile back when they didn't have education and gained seven techs to leap into the IA. The rule on workers is that they can't be traded for the purpose of using them twice against the same team. I'm quite sure Chamnix of Team Saber knows the rules and would not cheat.

As to infs upgrading to mechs. We'll win or lose this game before we ever get to the modern age. We certainly can't get there on our own. The Babes will probably get marines and tanks for us in 20-25 turns, but that will still leave them needing sci method, atomic theory, electronics and computers to get to mech infs. At least cavs have the ability to retreat. We'll of course build some tanks and maybe marines when we are able. We're having trouble coming up with 40 gold to give the Babes each turn for combustion, now. Even 30 gold per inf would be hard for us to come up with. Unit choice is important. What do you think of bombers? Should we just build infantry and then tanks as a reaction force? We should be able to draft 50-60 conscript infantry over the next 40 turns.

I don't think Free is really in an alliance or wants one. I was thinking they were sharing tech with Saber and the Council, but they haven't given up the monopoly on sci method, yet. I think they want to get to the modern age by themselves for awhile before gifting the other science teams up. We should know more in 12-20 turns when Free should arrive in the modern age.

 

[Yilar]

As I don't use specialists very often, how do they work in combination with disorder?

I can see we are using a great deal of our population on tax men, but why don't we use them on engineers till the market place is done? In the long run we would be better off having the market place done quickly and having the city able to grow.

Places like WBTC/Pete's End/Whip it could finish the market quickly.

Also Great walls is a core city, build a harbor in DSOTM and let it use the sea tiles while Great Walls grows big. We can poprush slave boats out of the crap cities on the other side of the isle.

 

[PrinceMyshkin]

Specialists still work in disorder though the governor has a tendency to reassign them if the city is starving.

We've been using tax-men to come up with the 40 gold payment for the Babes each turn and of course to avoid bankruptcy. We shouldn't have any more payments after the next one, so we will hire back engineers in towns building markets next turn. We do need markets in most or all of our cities as many units will be built using the whip. Right now we have many towns that have been whipped to death.

The harbor in DSOTM and allowing Great Walls to grow is a very good idea. We'll build a coal plant in DSOTM in 4 turns and then a harbor so it can still do 3-turn vet destroyers. I'm not sure I know what you mean by slave boats.

 

[Yilar]

Slave boats = privateers.

We will use the cheap privateers as sentry boats and use the expensive destroyers to take out any units that should try and attack our privateers .

When we get attacked, a large force of protected transporters will come under escort that we cant possible kill, but we just need to know where they can land. So we can fortify the cities in that area, seeing as they will most likely only bring a dusin marines.

If they get a city on coast they can move in the transporters and pretty much take our entire island in 1 turn if they got enough tanks.

Btw how did you bring up that happiness causes? I've played civ for 3 years now and i've never seen that popup box before.

 

[PrinceMyshkin]

Aren't privateers a little risky? Anybody can attack them on sight without a formal declaration of war. We wouldn't be able to retaliate without giving them war happiness and losing our naval screen. Or does it not work this way in MP? Frigates are only 10shields more, why not whip or build them if need be for a screen? DSOTM alone can build at least 10 destroyers by 1200AD.

We definitely can't let them take a city. We also probably want to put units on all our shore tiles as well so that the only way they can land is a dow with marines.

To bring up the happiness causes all you need to do is click on an unhappy citizen.

 

[Ansar]

You've bore down cruel oppression on your own citizens?

Is that a side-effect of the drafting?

 

[Yilar]

Aren't privateers a little risky? Anybody can attack them on sight without a formal declaration of war. We wouldn't be able to retaliate without giving them war happiness and losing our naval screen. Or does it not work this way in MP? Frigates are only 10shields more, why not whip or build them if need be for a screen? DSOTM alone can build at least 10 destroyers by 1200AD.

We definitely can't let them take a city. We also probably want to put units on all our shore tiles as well so that the only way they can land is a dow with marines.

To bring up the happiness causes all you need to do is click on an unhappy citizen.

Even though you don't declare war in the game, you still declare war "officially" outside of the game. Because, we can simply send up another boat and see who attacked us and then send them a nice stop attacking letter.
We can also rush a few frigates np. We just need a few boats to look out for invasion boats, so we can mobilize the destroyers.

 

[PrinceMyshkin]

Well, Graceland has never used the whip, but that is not an effect of drafting. A couple of workers were added in there some time back. Workers built from cities that have used the whip "rememeber" their oppression and add unhappiness to any city they join. It's one of the main reasons many of our towns are nearly "whipped" to death.


Edit: crosspost--first one I can remember in a while, here.

 

[Ansar]

Well, Graceland has never used the whip, but that is not an effect of drafting. A couple of workers were added in there some time back. Workers built from cities that have used the whip "rememeber" their oppression and add unhappiness to any city they join. It's one of the main reasons many of our towns are nearly "whipped" to death.

Ah, ok.

I didn't know that snippet about the workers

 

[PrinceMyshkin]

This just in. The Council has flight! At least they still don't have rubber. As soon as the Babes send combustion, we'll have to hire every scientist we can and work on flight asap while they go for mass prod, amphibious, and motorized transport. Engineers will be hired sparingly if at all.

Also, I think we've all the culture we can get right now as defense has taken on a new urgency. We still need to whip markets, but our coastal towns need to get boats in the water. Basement on a Hill can whip a cruiser for 1 pop in 2 turns, while our two coastal towns working on universities can whip frigates. All suggestions welcome.

 

[RFHolloway]

Do we have much upkeep that is not related to culture buildings? we are really going to struggle to do much research with this much upkeep - I forgot that by this point my research is switched off, and I am controlling the world through cavalry!

I had a thought
- can they bomb from an aircraft carrier
- can those bombs destroy a unit outside a city
- can they then invade and take a large portion of our cities
- does this have any implications for our defense (e.g .boats into the sea or choke the whole island with warriors, or protect internal cities etc)

 

[PrinceMyshkin]

Hi, RF. We're actually 71 turns exactly from 1390AD.

We have very little upkeep not due to culture. A few harbors and barracks, but nothing horrendous. The markets we've built so far are paying for themselves and we can expect to make just a little more gpt with additional markets and save on corruption with a few more courts. We really can't research flight much faster than 50 turns, but we will gather what beakers we can and the Babes will send us gold to run deficit research after they get mass prod, marines, and tanks.

To answer your questions:

1. Yes, they can bomb from aircraft carriers
2. Yes, IIRC, the bombs can destroy units outside of cities
3. Yes
4. In addition to needing many units to absorb bombs, block tiles, and stuff into cities where we can expect an attack we need flight to make flak and or fighters to kill or blunt any bombers they might use. More boats might also help if we can see an attack coming and sink their carriers or transports before an attack. A few bombers wouldn't hurt either. Btw, the cheapest unit we can build will be the 70-shield flak or 80 shield riflemen. Now that we have nationalism, we can no longer cut resources and make cheap warriors or spearmen. In case of war, every city should have at least 3 units, since we'll need the mp's to keep our cities somewhat happy.