turns 37-54

[I. Larkin]

I have an impression, that curragh see east part of our continent...
I don't know, why Tinta "must" grow fast.
Really I thought warrior will go there. We also need MP for Glaston.

 

[Lanzelot]

I don´t like sci in tinta.
sure we get rep faster, but tinta grow slower. and anarchos towns can grow better.
2 turns and camelots warrior goes to tinta->0% lux.

I support this idea. We have wasted enough food, and Rep comes soon enough with the anarcho's support.

I have an impression, that curragh see east part of our continent...

Hmm, is it that far already?!? Where are we on the minimap? In that case we should follow the "northern path". But let's keep going a few more turns to find out for sure. Now that we have gone so far, it would be a shame to turn around shortly before reaching the destination...

Edit: perhaps we should send our second curragh the "northern path" and later build a third one to find the anarchos?

I don't know, why Tinta "must" grow fast.

It is our least corrupted city! So it should grow asap! With a few more mines (we are currently last place in production...!) it can build the Lighthouse in reasonable time.
(Or prebuild a harbor for more commerce?)

Really I thought warrior will go there. We also need MP for Glaston.

How about: next warrior from Camelot goes to Tinta, and our "middle scout" returns to Glaston?

 

[Memento]

warrior(to tinta)-settler-warrior(2nd MP for glaston-settler-warrior(2nd MP for tinta)
so tinta can build tgl and glaston Granary.

I don't know, why Tinta "must" grow fast.

because anarchos have no pressure to research very fast.they can grow faster if they research slower. they can wait till we research rep and have many pop more then we have.

another idea:
tinta build settler first,than prebuild for tgl.
tinta can grow/build settler in 9 turns.
MM is a long way

 

[Memento]

i make the turn
warrior from camelot go to tinta,new warrior in 2 turns
send picture per mail

 

[I. Larkin]

I think 2 turns faster Republic better then lost of 2 foods.
But "done".
Camelot operates 4-5, better to have Tinta 4 -5 before Republic.
Or re-arrange 6-turns Cicle.

Curragh could go 1 tile more west. Why zigzag? Again, done. Most probably it is a Continent.
With this configuration we can trade without GLH. As to invasion 10 extra galleys more important then extra speed. If we are cooperative with Greeks we will have Astronomy soon. It will take 50-60 turns for GLH, I think.
Why worker went to Oasis? I thought FP or BGL better. We should think better about workers trajectories and next Cities planing. It is connected things.

 

[Lanzelot]

I think the oasis isn't that bad, if we want to speed up the granary in Glastonbury as much as possible. The BG is on the other side of the river, so we can't get back to the forests (if we want to chop them) or to the oasis. The floodplain would have been good too, but we can still do it afterwards. Or the Camelot worker can do the floodplain (after building a road to Avalon). Then the Glastonbury worker can fully concentrate on Glastonbury. (I do want that granary a wee bit faster, with 1spt it's not going anywhere...)

Lanzelot

 

[templar_x]

It is correct, we should have discussed it. But i think the oasis was the correct tile. Let the cap's worker improve everything South of the River. Northern worker probably bg Next. Then we See Whether a Chop makes Sense. But always use the Forest Chop shields last (if u do Not Need the tile under it). So No hurry there.

Besides, there won't Be Happening much After the Gran is built in despo. Rep. Will Not Be far Away. And then we do Not Need many of its Tiles umleitet for normal Operation.

Only if we want a One turn wf... During Ga it is possible. Nobody Commented on this yet.

Templar_x

 

[I. Larkin]

I think the oasis isn't that bad

Yes, it is neutral move. Question is what Tile Avalon will work? (I thought on FP to grow faster)

It is correctly, we should have discussed it

What City next? 3S or 4S?
Because Tinta will grow to size 4, 5, soon better to have second Lux connected.
I have no clear idea about our plan.
For example, when we need next Worker?
We decided about TGL in Tinta or not yet?
What Avalon will build first? warrior?

 

[Memento]

another idea:
tinta build settler first
tinta can grow/build settler in 9 turns.

3/4s can settled from tinta
camelots next settler E or NW?

 

[templar_x]

Yes, it is neutral move. Question is what Tile Avalon will work? (I thought on FP to grow faster)

What City next? 3S or 4S?
Because Tinta will grow to size 4, 5, soon better to have second Lux connected.
I have no clear idea about our plan.
For example, when we need next Worker?
We decided about TGL in Tinta or not yet?
What Avalon will build first? warrior?

In my opinion and from what I can see from the jpg, defenitely 3s.
With the abundance of luxes around, I see two options:
- either finish the discussed build with the northern worker, and after the bg go NE over the river, road, and road 1n, to connect the dyes town which can be built with the 2nd next settler. then it would be two more settlers before more workers.
- or build 3s next, then a worker set, and use one of them to build a COLONY on the silks.
- no option, in my eyes, is using the 2nd next settler to connect the silks with a town by the sea in the south which would be a pretty worthless settlement.
Avalon can build a warrior, sure. The cap´s warrior could either improve 2ne (i+r) or only build a road, and the move on to the FP and irrigate that first. depends a lot on whether the 2nd shield is corrupted there, I would think.
TGL in Tinta I understand that Lanzelot and I like the idea, Ivan does not, and nobody else said much about it. Sorry if I overlooked anything.

@ Memento - why would we want to build a settler from a slowly growing town which should go into build/wonder build mode?

templar_x

 

[I. Larkin]

In my opinion and from what I can see from the jpg, defenitely 3s.

Well we can do s3, but with s4 silk will connected faster.
Probably for fastest Republic we can do s3 first.
According to calculations Avalons second sch not corrupted. 0.447059< 0.5

TGL in Tinta I understand that Lanzelot and I like the idea, Ivan does not, and nobody else said much about it. Sorry if I overlooked anything.
@ Memento - why would we want to build a settler from a slowly growing town which should go into build/wonder build mode?

Problem is that it will grow, grow and grow while building TGL. But well, we may put Sci to manage happines in Tinta. Memento's idea is to reduce size of Tinta first.
Obviously at decision we must weight arguments, but not count hands.
I did not see anything convincing, but also can't say what wrong with it and what good we can do instead.

 

[templar_x]

Obviously at decision we must weight arguments, but not count hands.
I did not see anything convincing, but also can't say what wrong with it and what good we can do instead.

what are you trying to say here, Ivan?

there were quite a few arguments already brought up, and eventually, if we are unanimous about something, "hands need to be counted".

if you are not offering alternatives (2nd quoted sentence), which arguments do you then expect to get weighed?

templar_x

 

[Memento]

TGL in Tinta I understand that Lanzelot and I like the idea, Ivan does not, and nobody else said much about it.

At this time i don´t know what is better.
1 move more for 300s on a map with save fields?
300s are many units for an faster invasion or many buildings for faster exploraition,grow and research.

 

[Lanzelot]

Well, one argument is of course that 300s is a lot of wood, and that something else (e.g 10 galleys) might be more worthwhile. I can see that. If there will never be any sea-battles (either defending against an invasion or staging one ourselves), then the Lighthouse might not be of much use. On the other hand it also might turn our to be very powerful like in our test game (where it was practically "game-deciding"). I think the main question is: do we expect to get our GA by Mercenary or by wonders? In the later case the Lighthouse would basically be a "must".

Are you sure regarding the 1-turn worker factory? I see 9s at size 6 plus 3s on growth = 12s. We will probably need a courthouse to make this 10 uncorrupted shields?!

Here is a first draft of a dotmap. Red is our core, blue our second ring.

For the workers I suggest the following sequence:

• Glastonbury worker: oasis, chop one forrest, BG, plains, chop the other forrest
• Camelot worker (becomes Avalon worker): road plains, FP, finish plains, more plains
• Tintagel worker: mine a grassland, build road to "New town", tobacco BG, silks, BG
• A new worker from Camelot can then finish Tintagel and another one the northern town.

I indicated all worker trajectories with yellow arrows.

I think that the "great lakes" will be the border between us and the Greeks. (Our warriors met there, so it is probably the same distance from both cores. Also, reading the map makers mind, it would be a nice idea to have those lakes in the middle between two nations... ) In this case the blue FP would be too far out on our border, and the red FP would be better?!
Lanzelot

Edit: hey, the uploads work again!

Edit2: adjusted dotmap incorporating templar's suggestions below.

 

[Memento]

I thought next town is 3NE not 4NE

 

[templar_x]

I like the worker moves, Lanzelot.

The shields in GA for a 1-turn WF would be:
cc+m oasis+m bg+i wheat+3x i fp +m hill on growth
2+3+3+2+4 =14 shields before corruption

so the questions are:
+ will no less than 4 shields be corrupted in Rep?
+ do we want this?
+ do we apply the worker moves necessary for this?

dotmap is nice, only 1 spot i believe needs to move, and 2 I think we should discuss:
# move dyes town 1nw
# maybe only 1 northern town instead of 2? just to think about that. it would be a stronger producer, and 1nw does not make other core towns more corrupt.
# sw 2nd ring town, why not move it to the bg and save the hill? it will be rather a fishing village this way or the other, but gets more tiles this way.

templar_x

 

[I. Larkin]

At this time i don´t know what is better.
1 move more for 300s on a map with save fields?
300s are many units for an faster invasion or many buildings for faster exploraition,grow and research.

Exactly.
What was decisive in one game may be not so at another. We have safe path to another continent and ship chain with extra galleys will do the same as TGL. Also if we are friendly with Greeks Astronomy may come soon. GA with UU, no problem.
Another argument that it is long time (production is not very fast) and nothing we can do when City grow. Are we going to starve it in Anarchy? Also, look, suppose Greeks (if they are Greeks) will go to war. Avalon build FP, Glaston Granary, Tinta TGL, Camelot is SF. Will we defend with 7 warriors vs 4 swordmen? As low corrupt and big City it can build Harbor and Library, it will be largest benefit. Now it can build Numidian (just in case) and/or third Curragh. Second continent narrow at North, might be wide at South.
I think we may try to go straight west from south-western peninsula.
Re: dot map did not check, but looks that timing does not taken into account.

 

[Lanzelot]

I thought next town is 3NE not 4NE

Hmm, I thought the discussion was between 4NE and 5NE and in the end we voted for 4NE?! Anyway, I think 4NE is better: it has access to 3 hills (and the FP for Glaston/Avalon), while at 3NE we have only one hill (and the FP needs another town or culture expansion to get into the radius).

The shields in GA for a 1-turn WF would be:
cc+m oasis+m bg+i wheat+3x i fp +m hill on growth
2+3+3+2+4 =14 shields before corruption

so the questions are:
+ will no less than 4 shields be corrupted in Rep?
+ do we want this?
+ do we apply the worker moves necessary for this?

Ah, I counted the oasis as 2s and didn't think of using the hill on growth...
Well, in this case I'd say yes!

dotmap is nice, only 1 spot i believe needs to move, and 2 I think we should discuss:
1 move dyes town 1nw
2 maybe only 1 northern town instead of 2? just to think about that. it would be a stronger producer, and 1nw does not make other core towns more corrupt.
3 sw 2nd ring town, why not move it to the bg and save the hill? it will be rather a fishing village this way or the other, but gets more tiles this way.

1 Edit: sorry, confused it with the silks town... Well, yes, perhaps it's better. (Normally I like settling on hills to keep the food of the grasslands, but here it is counter-balanced by more coast.)
2 With two towns we have a lot more coast&sea tiles for cheap commerce.
3 Yes I agree. (Usually I hate settling on a BG, that's probably why I missed that...) On the BG we have again more commerce, and a harbor becomes worth while (however, one food less?!). I will update the picture accordingly.

 

[I. Larkin]

I thought next town is 3NE not 4NE

4NE, sure. We even thought 5 NE...

 

[Lanzelot]

What was decisive in one game may be not so at another. We have safe path to another continent and ship chain with extra galleys will do the same as TGL. Also if we are friendly with Greeks Astronomy may come soon. GA with UU, no problem.
Another argument that it is long time (production is not very fast) and nothing we can do when City grow. Are we going to starve it in Anarchy? Also, look, suppose Greeks (if they are Greeks) will go to war. Avalon build FP, Glaston Granary, Tinta TGL, Camelot is SF. Will we defend with 7 warriors vs 4 swordmen? As low corrupt and big City it can build Harbor and Library, it will be largest benefit. Now it can build Numidian (just in case) and/or third Curragh. Second continent narrow at North, might be wide at South.
I think we may try to go straight west from south-western peninsula.

Hmm, this almost convinces me. How about building a barracks now? If we build any Numidians, they should be veteran, not?

Re: dot map did not check, but looks that timing does not taken into account.

Did not calculate timing exactly, but just using "rule of thumb" roads for next towns should not be a problem:

• road to 3S will finish in time (settler needs it in 7 turns, we have 4 for a mine, 1 to move, 1 for road)
• road to N-2NW is already in place

However, the northern sequence needs to be adjusted: the final forest in Glaston would fall in 25 turns. Ok, that's too long. Perhaps we should omit the BG for now, and do like: oasis, chop forrest, road that tile, chop second forrest? Thats 15 turns. Still too long! We have 11s now, 14s in 3 turns, then 3spt for 15 turns makes 59s even without chop.
So we need only 1 forest and keep the other one for later. First forest falls in turn 9, and until then we have 11 + 3x1 + 2 on growth + 5x3 + 1 on growth(one probably corrupted?!) + 1x4 + 10 = 46s. So 4 more turns at 4spt will finish it in 13 turns from now. => Oasis(6), move, chop forrest(3), improve (or road), and then we can make a new plan depending on what Glastonbury needs after the granary.

Edit: in the southern sequence we can perhaps do the BG before the silks. Depends on when we have a settler for the silks. (Or do we really want to waste a worker for a colony?!