Turns 55-80

[templar_x]

The ultimatum looks good. Do we have 24h on our clock?

we got 96h...

if we burn the town and take the slaves, this will already mean a setback for them. i see two possibilities:
either we attack the first hoplite we see, so to trigger their GA at a pretty useless point of time. still, their production will soar compared to ours...
or we avoid to attack a hoplite and only do so when we can come over them in force. this will take some time however.

still, we have quite a few warriors, which may not be able to take another town, but they can destroy quite a bit of their infrastructure.

letting the capital grow before the hills are mined does not seem very useful to me.

i still would like the embassies. they give quite good information about the others at little cost.

templar_x

 

[Lanzelot]

HBR sounds good, whenever we have some coins to spare, we should bring it forward a bit.
(And even if the Anarchos now make a retreat, we need a military build-up now, for example if we try for a pre-emptive strike at the Eagles.)

I posted the ultimatum, and I will also post a short note to the Eagles, trying to keep them out of the war.

 

[Lanzelot]

i still would like the embassies. they give quite good information about the others at little cost.

templar_x

Yes, let's do it, before the others do it. (After that it is no longer possible.)

 

[I. Larkin]

So, did we agree about buildup? Lux 20%, Sci 0%? If we go to war "now" we will build Barracks instead of FP. If "later" FP continue.
Also I'd switch Lib to Granary in Tinta. Irrigate GLs and let Camelot grow above 6.

 

[templar_x]

So, did we agree about buildup? Lux 20%, Sci 0%? If we go to war "now" we will build Barracks instead of FP. If "later" FP continue.
Also I'd switch Lib to Granary in Tinta. Irrigate GLs and let Camelot grow above 6.

the one obstacle i see is that we do not have another 4-turn SF except the capital. therefore i do not like the capital/Tinta-plan yet. i cannot come up with alternative however now either.

let us clarify our ultimatum and think while we are waiting for their response. i do not really expect anything from our diplo with Anarchie any more anyway.

basically i understand ivans plan, but i do not like the underused granary in the capital, the not optimal factory Tinta, ... dunno

i wont be able to participate a lot, as i have got appointments all day and deliver my last paper of this weeks series tonight... sorry.

templar_x

 

[I. Larkin]

If we have 5 spt and 5 fpt it is SF, we may cash-rush Archer and switch to Settler. Low corrupted capital may be larger with output approx 15 spt. Due to lower corruption it may stay at higher size. We don't need Lib at the mode we will play, but Granary will help. We will see, if we want 3 Granary to operate or let Capital grow.

 

[Lanzelot]

I think the "military build-up" will make sense in any case. If we can get "normal" relations with the Anarchos, the 30 turn NAP may even be good for us, as it allows us to lead a quick war on the other continent without having to worry too much about home defense.
I do think that every one is going for a "builder build-up" at the moment, so a surprise attack may work. Don't need to eliminate an opponent completely, but making so much damage that they will no longer be dangerous, may work.

Edit: so this is a "yes" to Ivan's plan.

 

[Lanzelot]

Hmm, I see a problem. For a war against the other continent we need more development, (probably at least two harbors, two barracks) and Maps rather soon.
A war against Anarchos needs different preparations. So we can't simply "prepare for war" and pick the target later, when we know more about how the Anarchos behave. This means we need to make a decision now: short-term war vs Anarchos (and no development) or mid-term war vs Eagles (and more development for now)?

 

[I. Larkin]

So, can I play and submit? If we decided not kill settler next turn all OK. I think war with Eagles unthinkable, however.

 

[templar_x]

war against Eagles without Anarchie is useless, i agree. we could land a few numidians and bring them up against us forever, while we gift them WH. not a good idea.

the Küche might be possible, but does not bring us a whole lot. very much like Eagles, with the disadvantage that they even could profit from that if they ally with us.

so let us just go for a bit of build-up. that is, if the Anarchie withdraws. i do not like them to found before us, but if this is it, ok. however, they sure expect to also get the northern channel town... not ok in my eyes, but still not enough reason to go to war.

templar_x

edit: in my eyes, nobody else raised any point, so go and submit.

 

[Lanzelot]

Ok, if you say an oversees war is impossible, I guess I can trust you on that. The Anarchos behavior is quite ok so far, so that means "peaceful buildup" for now? More as we go along and see how things develop.

Can we operate two SFs?

 

[templar_x]

theoretically yes, but we need the workers, maybe even more than settlers.

or do you mean 3 factories total? also yes, but that would require a granary in the FP town.

i would say, at least slight military build-up soon, and wait for next turn.

templar_x

 

[Lanzelot]

BTW: are you playing the turn, Ivan?

 

[I. Larkin]

Yes, playing now.
Played. Western Curradh 3N see EG and DK warriors. Eastern along island east. Lux20%, Sci 0%.

 

[templar_x]

we have to make some build decisions now.

- Looking at it again, I like the capital as a settler factory better at the moment than Tintagel. So I would rather like to have 4-6 or 5-7 settlers from Camelot.
- Tintagel should finish its library (in 4 turns, working the forest, and the hill for 1 turn), and then probably go for a harbour. Neither troops, nor workers, nor settlers look convincing to me there.
- Glaston has an face and requires to up the slider to 30%, which costs about 8gpt. hm. Or it takes two scientists this turn and perfectly operates as a 2-turn WF from next turn on.
- If we want a 3rd factory, Carlion would suit better for that. Within a few turns, it also could be either a 5-6 2-turn WF,or a 5-7 SF with 10 shortrushed shields.
- In this case, better start the FP in Lanzelot´s Edge.
- Lanzelot´s Edge and Memento´s Humour both only need 1 food in one turn before they grow. I do not see anything that L could make of it, but M can work the dye forest for one turn now for an extra shield.
- Carlion needs 3 food this turn and 4 next turn, so move the worker on the forest to the lake.

In the north let us withdraw the warriors 1 tile. In the south proceed.

Worker on Dyes chop first, right?

Anarchie+Eagles are so close that ship-chaining would work. The eastern curragh I would have preferred to open the passage to the south, but the way it is let it proceed.
Edit: looking at it again, the coast should even only be 3-tiles apart there!!! this brings up a lot of new problems or chances, as it drastically shortens the supply routes to and from our continent.

The Eagleprise was attacked, so there are barb galleys out there!

Eagles,and only Eagles, have MM.

templar_x

 

[templar_x]

more templar stuff:

- is there no tech that everyone already has? i am not that happy with 0% research. if like CB is known to everyone, let us research it.
who can check the tech costs with the rest of the world?
- i would establish the embassy with the Anarchie THIS TURN. it will give us valuable information and we do not get interest in money anyway.
- we should, in the conversation with the Anarchie, always refer to the "blockade of Saragossa", which is what we did; not to the "blockade of 'their' town site" which is their perception, but totally off. we definitely should not deliver anything that sounds only vaguely like accepting that demand.
- Glaston could build a worker with +4fpt and 4s now and 1 scientist. after that a 5-turn settler.
- Camelot a worker now, ok, we need that. chop the forest 1se into the rax of the se town first? irrigate then mine the hills? or sth else, like mine a hill for Tinta immediately?
- you surely noticed that Carlion and Glaston can alternately have +6fpt and +4fpt, which could allow two factories. so again, if we want 3 of them, or 2 after the capital grows, it should be there in my eyes.

templar_x

 

[I. Larkin]

- Looking at it again, I like the capital as a settler factory better at the moment than Tintagel. So I would rather like to have 4-6 or 5-7 settlers from Camelot.
- Tintagel should finish its library (in 4 turns, working the forest, and the hill for 1 turn), and then probably go for a harbour. Neither troops, nor workers, nor settlers look convincing to me there.

It is more efficient to have Lib in Camelot then in Tinta. Even at size 4 it produces more bpt. At 20% Lux have Camelot of size 4 also not efficient. For short period it may produce worker/settler, but Lib after and, probably Workers at size 8-9. [I did not calculated all + and -, but first glance saying it. ]

 

[templar_x]

i would have agreed, like: a few workers and settlers, then let Camelot grow... etc. but then, workers at size 8-9??? what a waste of food! if it grows to that size, it has to become a production town!

production... i checked, and the #1 producer makes 32 shields! in despotism!!! how are they doing that, with less pop than we have? and who is this tribe? i do not get it. we are #2 though, so they are far ahead of everyone else.

we really need some mines.

Edit: what about Lib first in Tinta, and while we build some more settlers from the cap, we build the granary in Tinta? this would be a plan i would understand better, and tinta would have its multiplier building it otherwise will not get for ages.

templar_x

 

[I. Larkin]

we have to make some build decisions now.

- Looking at it again, I like the capital as a settler factory better at the moment than Tintagel. So I would rather like to have 4-6 or 5-7 settlers from Camelot.
- Tintagel should finish its library (in 4 turns, working the forest, and the hill for 1 turn), and then probably go for a harbour. Neither troops, nor workers, nor settlers look convincing to me there.

We need something to settle our south. River configuration make settler path from Camelot difficult. With 2 Lux we still need 20% LuxTax, Glaston will operate at size 4-5 and Tinta 4-5-6. With roads Camelot may stay to size 8. (7 for sure).

- Glaston has an face and requires to up the slider to 30%, which costs about 8gpt. hm. Or it takes two scientists this turn and perfectly operates as a 2-turn WF from next turn on.

You mean 1 Sci? well, it is what I planed.

- If we want a 3rd factory, Carlion would suit better for that. Within a few turns, it also could be either a 5-6 2-turn WF,or a 5-7 SF with 10 shortrushed shields.

Position of Carliton not good for settler’s generation. Where they will go?

- In this case, better start the FP in Lanzelot´s Edge.

I am afraid it is too corrupted. Also, frontier City needs Barracks.

- Lanzelot´s Edge and Memento´s Humour both only need 1 food in one turn before they grow. I do not see anything that L could make of it, but M can work the dye forest for one turn now for an extra shield.

Need look again.

- Carlion needs 3 food this turn and 4 next turn, so move the worker on the forest to the lake.

Yes, I planed it. We have to mine Iron ASAP, not sure “road”.

In the north let us withdraw the warriors 1 tile. In the south proceed.

Oh. I disagree to withdraw. But for 1 turn – OK.

Worker on Dyes chop first, right?

Right.

Anarchie+Eagles are so close that ship-chaining would work. The eastern curragh I would have preferred to open the passage to the south, but the way it is let it proceed.
Edit: looking at it again, the coast should even only be 3-tiles apart there!!! this brings up a lot of new problems or chances, as it drastically shortens the supply routes to and from our continent.
The Eagleprise was attacked, so there are barb galleys out there!

Eagles,and only Eagles, have MM.

It is extra argument to finish Anarhos first, but Eagles later…

- Looking at it again, I like the capital as a settler factory better at the moment than Tintagel. So I would rather like to have 4-6 or 5-7 settlers from Camelot.
- Tintagel should finish its library (in 4 turns, working the forest, and the hill for 1 turn), and then probably go for a harbour. Neither troops, nor workers, nor settlers look convincing to me there.

Unfortunately we have to make decision NOW. Will we vote? We need cash/workers/Settlers/ more that extra 4 -5 bpt…

Quote:
Originally Posted by I. Larkin
Sort of. Or to resolve this stupid discussion with d7. Or irrigate Babana and build barracks. Let 4 warrior go (upgrate?). Connect Horses.

needless to say that this does not yet convince me that this should be our next town.

Small problem, that Anarhos may build/poprush Lib. In this case we can’t settle on place.

Quote:
Not good as increase corruption everywhere.

true. but it is a useful town, and it can share the wheat with Glaston

May be next settler from Glaston may go there. But it will not be soon.

Quote:
It wil go from Tinta.

i am still not too happy about investing all these shields into a granary when we already have one in the capital.

So am I, but I am afraid I can’t help with that.

Quote:
What good about this town except fish itself? I don't think that they will grab this fish if they settle 1N. Also in a future we will settle on Forest near lake and t-x fish-town will be too close.
we should not found on the forest, but on the tobacco.

I thought, that we will loose 1 commerce in this case. If not – it is OK.

the advantage of the fish town is a) +4 fpt just by itself b) lots of commerce c) does not need a single improvement to grow and prosper (fish, up to 3 lake tiles, gold mountain) and d) take those tiles away from anarchie. they can easily found a town on the two desert tiles between the hill and their gold mountain, and they get the fish and all those lake tiles.

Arguments looks reasonable, Next Settler from Glaston may go there. We have to prepare roads for that.

My intuition says that war will be soon. Very probably, it will be vs both, Eagles and Anarhos. We must make decisive damage to Anarhos before Eagles bring expedition force. I see two plans: via North and via central lake with Galleys. For first plan we must settle N-channel ASAP, for second we will need combat City in front of t-x fish-town. But we will not let them settle N-Channel!

 

[I. Larkin]

i

would have agreed, like: a few workers and settlers, then let Camelot grow... etc. but then, workers at size 8-9??? what a waste of food! if it grows to that size, it has to become a production town!

Yes, but it will grow anyway, so to control population it may generate workers occasionally.

production... i checked, and the #1 producer makes 32 shields! in despotism!!! how are they doing that, with less pop than we have? and who is this tribe? i do not get it. we are #2 though, so they are far ahead of everyone else.

have no idea. At early stage Anarhos was on top.

we really need some mines.

I thought worker from Capital will mine/road sugar hill. But irrigate plains also an option.

Edit: what about Lib first in Tinta, and while we build some more settlers from the cap, we build the granary in Tinta? this would be a plan i would understand better, and tinta would have its multiplier building it otherwise will not get for ages.

Look, Lib will take 3 turns. Profit - minimal because now we need cash for short-rush everything, and for embassy.. What we are going to research? CB or MM? What a reason to have Lib now? Settler from Camelot hard to place. I thought about 1 as a max...