Tweak Mod for Xtended + Master of Mana Updates

[SpyFanatic]

Tested with GoG and Steam version. Using v0.5.
No crash after pressing end of turn.
I am on linux/wine

 

[Sephi]

Hmm weird that it happens to some and not others. 2GB memory limit on clean install? Although I guess everyone is using prepatched Steam and GoG copies these days so that shouldn't be an issue.. Might be worth checking what OS's the crash people have and the no crash people have.

I just tried the save with a freshly downloaded MoM 0.5 on my Steam copy of Civ4 on Win 7.. no crash.. went to next to turn and asked me about some Barbarians.
.

I think it is a memory issue. Yesterday when it crashed for me I had a lot of programs running in the background and also windows had run for a long time. Now I tried it again right after starting windows and it did not crash.

 

[Zusk]

Hello!

Back in November or so of last year I did some work for a little for-fun project for MoM I had to leave that aside for a while as my internship/Uni started picking up, but figured I could share the most important fixes I included in that here.

I spent a lot of time reverse engineering, then trying to fix a lot of the issues with the barbarian camps ( Called Dungeons internally by the game. )

The main issues:
1) Spawn Rate.

Simply put, each dungeon is set to create 1 barbarian unit each turn. This is significantly more than barbarian cities can produce, and makes dungeons vastly more intimidating than a barbarian city.
Now, dungeons have a cool down determined by the 'Raging Barbarian' setting, but is usually about 4 turns before they create a new unit. This reduces the importance of 'Dungeon Farming', where you just park your super hero division outside of a dungeon and farm xp each turn.

2) Dungeon Strength, and the 'Super Barbarians'
There is a unmentioned game mechanic in MoM that is entirely handled on the back end - 'dungeon strength'. If you submit to barbarian dungeons, it raises the dungeons strength, which increases the strength of the units therein that are created.
However, there is no cap to dungeon strength, so if you have a dungeon surrounded by a few AI civs to trigger a ton of events, its very likely that by the mid-game you might see that dungeon spawning 50/50 skeletons!
I fix this by clamping the additional strength granted by dungeon strength to the base unit. Now it only gives a little bit of extra strength; reflecting the mechanic while still paying homage to the old one.

3) 'Animal Dens'
Animal dens are mechanically dungeons as well on the backend! They were broken in MoM because it just continously spawned animals on them that wandered away instantly. Animals never tried to defend the dungeons they were a part of. (It's why Animal Dens in MoM feel like a cut feature, they are just really bugged)
I fix this by ensuring that animals try to defend the dungeon/den they spawn in.

I am including specifically the dungeon fixes here, as I feel like it would really benefit the mod to include those - as the sheer ferocity of Barbarians in MoM kind of overshadows a lot of the fantastic stuff MoM adds to FFH. ( After you are able to fight off all of the dungeons in MoM, it's kind of trivial to fight other nations. )

If you want to include this fix mind, you will have to build the project yourself, as these are C files rather then just lua/xml!

 

[Zusk]

Also, here's the repo link for the project on github! I did some miscellaneous stuff as alongside the above mentioned, such as restoring some cut content for Svaltarfar and restoring Acheron ( Which always was silly to me how his event just never fired in MoM! )
Don't really have the time right now to actively maintain this, but if you want to look through bits and integrate that feel free!


https://github.com/Zusk/Master-of-Mana-Xtended-Plus

 

[SpyFanatic]

Hi Zusk! Thank you very much, seems very interesting and yes, I think I may be merging something from there!!
About Dungeon issues:
1) Spawn Rate: yes is 1 per turn till a max of 3... That means that you need to be there with a stack strong enough to kill all 3 of them in one turn... Are you proposing this to be easier to destroy (which honestly I never felt the need of) or to avoid XP farming (which I always found too boring to do, but if someone wants to do it, well... up to them)
2)Dungeon Strength: We never reach this level of strength as mainly the first 50 - 70 turn are dedicated to expansion and to clear up all barbs lair so to have free vital space. But its possible that it depends on map size and game speed, as we usually play on quick speed and tiny maps. And I believe only human player receive the deals proposition (CvDungeon triggerDeals) so you should be able to control their power and avoid such increases....
3) Animals Den: this seems nice and will have a look at it!

 

[OzzyKP]

I strongly recommend integrating Zusk's fixes. I always struggle with barbarian camps and end up with extremely powerful ones that I'm not able to clear out till late in the game. Like he said, it is often easier to go after neighboring civs than the barbarian camps.

 

[SpyFanatic]

Can you share some strategies used with barbarians along with map and speed / difficoulty?
We usually play on quick speed. MoM_Hub but other as well.
First 70 turns we usually clear out everything and we adapt with demands in the meantime (sell population is a good wealth income while the few cities cant grow and give a positive attitude which allow later on to poison them). Lairs gives demand only on human player, not ai.

In short: we never had any challange with lair (maybe some ice elemental which are anyhow far away) thus I am wondering how is possible to see 50/50 skeletron...

 

[OzzyKP]

I usually play on normal or epic speed, with elf size maps. Emperor difficulty I think.

It has been a few months since I last played, but I do my best to avoid the camps. Each one I take down takes a huge effort and ends up destroying a good portion of my troops in the early game. So I'm usually not able to take out more than one or two until much later. It definitely hems in my expansion and hems in the AI even more.

 

[CarnivalBizarre]

The spell Frenzy by chaos mana, makes the game unplayable. All units go rouge after each fight and just run off to die somewhere, and I never manage to dispell it, even as the amurites. You might wanna nerf it quite a bit I guess, since the AI also cannot handle it, when using it as a chaos civ, it just sends their units off all over the map.

Regarding the barbarians, I think they should have a setting for how bad they should be, I love the XP farming stuff if playing a tall build, less if trying to expand, but the wilderness should be rough the first part of the game I think, but I also have some non popular opinions about some parts of the map being unsettable by most civs etc, so maybe it is better to listen to other people here

I know I made a mess with the climate stuff, since the code for avoiding placing on a improvement did not always work, and the civ placements becomes a bit to similar, but it gives all civs a more even starting field.

Also, for info, I typically play marathon speed with more civs added for all sizes, unless multiplayer (hotseat only)

Nice to see the modding continue btw, awesome. Well done

 

[Felis catus]

I usually play at human size, normal speed, MOM_Lakes or MoM map script, immortal difficulty. I have never seen a str 50 barbarian unit because I don't compromise with them. And I did not know compromising enhances their strength. Frankly saying, there is no need to cooperate with them. They send only two units to attack our city if we refuse to and a few units can defend the city or stop them in the field. Anyway our units gain XP as a result and can clear lairs or xp farm later.
Lairs don't threat AI civs. They just pass ai territory to attack the non-cooperative human. So 50 strength is not the AI's fault
I think barb units strength should not increase by human's cooperation. So how about changing it like this? Giving slaves increases a population of barb cities. Given money helps barbs military techs to strengthen their unis.
It is true that Barbarians are very tough at the early stage of the game. I am not sure which one's expansion is more restricted by the barbarian at Immortal difficulty, AIs or human... If human players are more hindered by barb lairs, it is good for high difficulties as it is now in my opinion.

XP farming (which I always found too boring to do, but if someone wants to do it, well... up to them)

I agree.

EDIT : What is the animal den? I don't remember I saw it in MOM. It was there in old Wild mana mod...
Edit again : nevermind

 

[Felis catus]

In my opinion, AI's resource evaluation needs some overhaul. They are giving away some valuable resources easily to human.
In the first screenshot, 'annoyed' Deidra wants to trade Fish(but not Clam, why?). If I ask her 'What do you want for Fish?', she just says "Do you find this offer tempering?" So I can get Fish FOR FREE.
In the second screenshot, 'furious' Arendel does not want to trade Clam but Timber. Actually she gives Timber to me without cost if I ask what the price is. If I continue, she gives every surplus Timber. She is already providing two Stones for me FOR FREE in that way.
Stone increases global resource 'stone' via stonecutter building and strengthens catapults. Fish and Clam are the same for producing gold via Harbor. Anyway just keeping the resources can be beneficial for them...

 

[Piers Shepperson]

Returning to MoM after some years. I'm trying to work out how to install it. I found the following instructions.

Instructions:

1. Download Master of Mana Full and Patch 2.11 from Sourceforge.
2. Download Xtended 5.6 here.
3. Unzip Xtended 5.6.
4. Copy-and-replace the Asset and Private Maps folders from Xtended 5.5 to Master of Mana.
5. It's better to install 5.6 over a clean MOM.

So I have
Master of Mana 0.5 from this thread, Then
MoMTweakmod 1.09.exe
Master of Mana 2.11.exe
Master of Mana Xtended 5.6.zip

So I think I do the following.
1) Run "MoM TweakMod 1.09,exe"
2) Run "Master of Mana 2.11.exe" into the same directory as (1)
3) Replace the Asset and Priave Maps using "MoM Extended 5.6"
4) Finally overwrite the directory from (1) with the files from "Master of Mana 0.5" downloaded from this thread.

Is this correct?

 

[SpyFanatic]

In previous version I have tuned all 'value' given to resource trading by the AI but i suspect I did not crosscheck all possibilities in trade like renegotiating. Thats why I believe u can get the goody trades for free ...
Also I spent time looking AI offering trade and I never quite look on when human start trading with AI... Maybe its different code not yet aligned...

 

[Sephi]

Returning to MoM after some years. I'm trying to work out how to install it. I found the following instructions.

So I have
Master of Mana 0.5 from this thread, Then
MoMTweakmod 1.09.exe
Master of Mana 2.11.exe
Master of Mana Xtended 5.6.zip

So I think I do the following.
1) Run "MoM TweakMod 1.09,exe"
2) Run "Master of Mana 2.11.exe" into the same directory as (1)
3) Replace the Asset and Priave Maps using "MoM Extended 5.6"
4) Finally overwrite the directory from (1) with the files from "Master of Mana 0.5" downloaded from this thread.

Is this correct?

this modmodmodmodmod is standalone, no need to install multiple stuff. So just step 4. The name of the mod folder is important though so that game can find all files, it must be ".../Beyond the sword/mods/Master of Mana"

 

[SpyFanatic]

Returning to MoM after some years. I'm trying to work out how to install it. I found the following instructions.

So I have
Master of Mana 0.5 from this thread, Then
MoMTweakmod 1.09.exe
Master of Mana 2.11.exe
Master of Mana Xtended 5.6.zip

So I think I do the following.
1) Run "MoM TweakMod 1.09,exe"
2) Run "Master of Mana 2.11.exe" into the same directory as (1)
3) Replace the Asset and Priave Maps using "MoM Extended 5.6"
4) Finally overwrite the directory from (1) with the files from "Master of Mana 0.5" downloaded from this thread.

Is this correct?

You can just take the master of mana 0.5, unzip it and place in your Mod directory. It contains everything!

 

[SpyFanatic]

While at war with Balseraphs, they casted GE Frenzy. I casted minor disjunction twice and disjunction three times but all failed in dispelling. Just bad luck or a bug...
Then after I capitulated them, the hostile GE disappeared immediately.

Bug... Now it is corrected

 

[Piers Shepperson]

When I was playing MoM some years ago, you had to play on a land map as the AIs could not handle naval transport. Has stuff from the More Naval mod been merged in?

 

[Sephi]

When I was playing MoM some years ago, you had to play on a land map as the AIs could not handle naval transport. Has stuff from the More Naval mod been merged in?

I don't think so

 

[Sephi]

I am including specifically the dungeon fixes here, as I feel like it would really benefit the mod to include those - as the sheer ferocity of Barbarians in MoM kind of overshadows a lot of the fantastic stuff MoM adds to FFH. ( After you are able to fight off all of the dungeons in MoM, it's kind of trivial to fight other nations. )

the crazy strong barbarians were supposed to be some kind of placeholder until the gameplay changes were done and the AI could be improved. At the moment things are a bit odd because barbarian strength depends a lot on how many players there are on the map and how large the map is. Each player will reduce the wilderness around their starting location and reduced wilderness means weaker barbarians. Taming the barbarians somewhat might be a good idea.

 

[Felis catus]

Sometimes AI's naval units seem to have some trouble in pathfinding around bay areas. A Ljosalfar trireme in the middle of the first screenshot had been there for more than thirty turns. It disappeared after more than another thirty turns. Such 'stucking' events happen often.

And the event of the second screenshot shows two choices both resulting in ship reckage. But the trireme was not lost whatever I chose.