Tweak Mod for Xtended + Master of Mana Updates

[Guru-Meditation]

After having played three full games on v0.5 i can say the following:

• Trade AI seems partially bugged. Gives you resources for nothing.
• The AI builds its cities much more closely together. most cities are just 2 plots away from each other. Makes it all feel "clumpy" and narrow.
• The Fellowship of Leaves - Grow New Forests ritual does nothing (no cost, no effect) in the AI-chooses-targets-mode, and is free off cost for the i choose the 1 individual plot mode.
• I like the tweaks to the magic caster promotions - many small ones, but all fitting (edit)
• The AI promotes "smarter" as i might call it. I have the feeling it uses a better mix of attacking and defending promotions. For example in previous versions it often was so that almost all of the units in a AI-Doomstack being amazing city-attackers, but when the Doomstack had to fight an open field battle it took tremendous losses. Now they defend them better. - But beware! take this with a grain of salt, it is just a gut-feeling.

 

[Piers Shepperson]

Playing Austrin, my cities have stopped growing. So can someone explain or link to an explanation of 'population limit'?

 

[Sephi]

By default your cities will not grow over their happiness cap. Unhappy population consumes food but does does not give any benefit in many cases. It is a feature of the BUG mod component. You can disable it in every city if you want the city to grow past its happiness limit (might be usefull for calabim or slavery). I think the button is somewhere at the population bar in the city screen.

 

[Piers Shepperson]

It's not the happiness cap or health cap. I am fairly sure it's the population limit as in the top line 8/8. Note there is 10 food in trade routes so plenty of food to grow.

 

[Sephi]

I think it's just a hard limit for the population of austrin cities. Their pedia suggests that they get most resources from traderoutes rather than population.

 

[Piers Shepperson]

I think it's just a hard limit for the population of austrin cities. Their pedia suggests that they get most resources from traderoutes rather than population.

Maybe, but I can't find it documented anywhere. So not sure if it was by design or some sort of bug.

I can remember Dural used the population limit mechanic years ago but was removed. Remnants still exist in the civilpedea and tooltips for Dural population limits. But nothing for Austrin.

My head hurts.

 

[Sephi]

yeah, this pedia entry seems obsolete.

I think it would be good to move the pedia entry to the Austrin. Are there any other obsolete/wrong pedia entries regarding population limit?

 

[Piers Shepperson]

There is the tooltip description of Allisol's Urban bonus. I am sure there are others, I'll look out for them.

So when a civ's abilities are too strong, like Austin's, we use the Population limit to balance it. I admit Austin's trade yields can get really silly if you focus on them, but I feel there should be a more immersive way of handling the situation.

 

[Sephi]

That's true. Something like twice as much unhappiness from population ("It's really too crowded") might have been better than an artificial limit without any in world explanation other than a lore text.

 

[Piers Shepperson]

If there is a problem here it's the Trader trait made worse with the Grand Tranding Center. Sorah and Ecks abuses it the most effectively. Leggs and Kane and Swift Nell are close behind, but at least they mostly need to make the effort to set up trade routes. Although I must admit it's my favourite trait.

I don't see why Deridra should be penalised.

 

[grecays]

Hi all. No one has a map of Westeros to play on?

 

[Piers Shepperson]

Why we are on maps, what does MoM_ mean before a map script? Do they do something that is missing from other scripts?

 

[Zusk]

Hi Zusk! Thank you very much, seems very interesting and yes, I think I may be merging something from there!!
About Dungeon issues:
1) Spawn Rate: yes is 1 per turn till a max of 3... That means that you need to be there with a stack strong enough to kill all 3 of them in one turn... Are you proposing this to be easier to destroy (which honestly I never felt the need of) or to avoid XP farming (which I always found too boring to do, but if someone wants to do it, well... up to them)
2)Dungeon Strength: We never reach this level of strength as mainly the first 50 - 70 turn are dedicated to expansion and to clear up all barbs lair so to have free vital space. But its possible that it depends on map size and game speed, as we usually play on quick speed and tiny maps. And I believe only human player receive the deals proposition (CvDungeon triggerDeals) so you should be able to control their power and avoid such increases....
3) Animals Den: this seems nice and will have a look at it!

So, for certain nation starts. I.e. Luchuip with an artificer that's applying a strength aura to a few wood golems, elohim next to a unique feature etc. it's pretty trivial to clear out most barbarian camps near you at the start of the game. On a tiny map where all players focus on this I can see 50 turns being enough for that.
I tuned these mostly for singleplayer, epic speed/human size maps. (Haven't played a lot of games on quick admittedly; feels like it would be too easy to get those 'win the game units' i.e. Eurobates when tech speeds are reduced that far.)

Also, for dungeon strength, on each turn dungeons increase their strength natively a small amount, regardless of triggerDeals.

It's this line of code.

void CvDungeon::doTurn()
{
    doLogging();
    triggerDeals();

    changePowerTimes1000(10);
}

Power does increase through deals, but it also increases each turn very slightly.

 

[Piers Shepperson]

Playing Austrin, my cities have stopped growing. So can someone explain or link to an explanation of 'population limit'?

Ah! I just realised. The population cap and food caravans are the link. You are meant to use the excess food to create trade routes. The civilization is beginning to make a little sense.

Still, Sorah does seem a lot more powerful than Deridra. I'll try as Deridra now I understand what's going on.

I wonder if there are any ways other than the summer palace to increase the population cap.

 

[SpyFanatic]

After having played three full games on v0.5 i can say the following:

• Trade AI seems partially bugged. Gives you resources for nothing.
• The AI builds its cities much more closely together. most cities are just 2 plots away from each other. Makes it all feel "clumpy" and narrow.
• The Fellowship of Leaves - Grow New Forests ritual does nothing (no cost, no effect) in the AI-chooses-targets-mode, and is free off cost for the i choose the 1 individual plot mode.
• I like the tweaks to the magic caster promotions - many small ones, but all fitting (edit)
• The AI promotes "smarter" as i might call it. I have the feeling it uses a better mix of attacking and defending promotions. For example in previous versions it often was so that almost all of the units in a AI-Doomstack being amazing city-attackers, but when the Doomstack had to fight an open field battle it took tremendous losses. Now they defend them better. - But beware! take this with a grain of salt, it is just a gut-feeling.

Thanks!
For the promotion I do not have pc at hand but yes, in the choosing I have given values also to first strikes and %attack strength while previously it was only focused on %city attack... So I do expect them to be better also on open fields.
Can you please elaborate the feedback on magic caster promotion? I have also added values in AI choosing magic promotion for caster, as before it was missing for many of them... Is that what you mean?

Grow new forest and ai trade will have a look.

About AI city placement I have added some tuning related distance, from linear air to plot distance, as the first does not play well with mom_hub and erebus (best plot can be 6 plot in linear air but 30+ to reach by land). Other then that, nothing else that I recall!

 

[Felis catus]

Played as Lanun for the first time in my FFH career. Among their epic destiny condition, 'Gold Plundered' is bugged. Land pillage and sea pillage both are not counted as plundered gold in the victory screen though the pillaged amount is announced on the main screen.
And another thing. They make peace treaty with 'the Pirates' at the start of a game but I do not remember I have seen a unit of the 'Pirate civ' in MoM extended... I guess this feature implemented incompletely.

The AI builds its cities much more closely together. most cities are just 2 plots away from each other. Makes it all feel "clumpy" and narrow.

I feel a little bit different. Maybe different for map scripts and environments...

I like the tweaks to the magic caster promotions - many small ones, but all fitting (edit)

Oh I did not recognized that. Very good!

 

[Piers Shepperson]

Scions of Patria epic destiny: Get Risen Emporer to level 15.

The problem is that according to the civilopedia you only get the Risen Emporer if you play as Korinna, otherwise you can never satisfy the epic destiny.

 

[OzzyKP]

Thanks! First: agree implementation feels weird, thus why i mention about it...
About beeing permanent: not 100% sure, didnt remember in source code an 'history' about cvplot... And maybe yes in short quick games maybe i was not even caring about... Will look better...

They definitely reverted back to their original terrain in my last playthrough, I'm not sure what version that was, but not the most recent.

 

[Sephi]

I cannot remember the details but cvplot does have some kind of history. There is the "end of winter" gameoption where the world starts frozen and the terrain converts back after a while to its original terrain. Maybe looking at how that gameoption works helps.

 

[Guru-Meditation]

Just something i just noticed, and really liked in v0.5: !
The hover-the-mouse-over-it-descriptions in the Civilopedia are now FINALLY filled with the relevant information for tile improvements.