Two New Colonization Previews, Screenshots

[sangeli]

I'm actually pretty disappointed they chose Peter Stuyvesant as Dutch colonial leader.

Stuyvesant was a bit weird and he was never really important from a Dutch point of view. He was a bit tirannic even. He is only famous for being one of the first rulers of what would be new york.

The best choice would be Johan Maurits, Count of Nassau-Siegen.
He was the first enlightened ruler in the world. He allowed Portugese catholics and Jews to have religious freedom in the Dutch colonies. He stimulated research on the natural environment of Brazil and also funded the first paintings made of American sceneries. Additionally he stimulated studies of the natives. Also he was a more than adequate military leader. He was in service of the Dutch East india company from 1636-1644. When he came back in Europe he was a celebrity. He was a welcome guest at the French and Prussian courts.


I know Firaxis is American and they think the founding of New Amsterdam was a big thing but historically it was not as important as the Dutch conquest of Brazil. Their focus on the leaders of New Amsterdam is a bit misplaced.

Piet Heijn would be the obvious second choice. A privateer who captured the Spanish silver fleet which funded a lot of the Dutch colonizing activities from 1630-1640.

Anyone know how I could offer Firaxis my expertise on Dutch colonial history?

Also Firaxis, make sure you don't make the mistake of using 'the Dutch King' the Dutch did not have a king but were a republic. The States General would be more accurate. And if you really need to narrow it down to one person: the Stadtholder (steward).

Using Stuyvesant as the colonial leader is historically accurate, if the scenario is only in North America. Hopefully, there is more than one colonial leader to choose from for each civ and that for different scenarios you can choose a different leader. However, I'm not too sure if they have already decided to only allow one leader per colony. If that is the case then picking Stuyvesant was a mistake.

 

[T.A JONES]

Look at the water in those screenshots, that's AWESOME!

Look at those jungles trees I bet both were set to use less resources whe they move. Seas waves and tree breeze were default otherwords you couldn't shut em off.

Well here we see potential for biggermap and better gameplay already

 

[Mattzc7]

What, no Portugal?

Come on, they definitely belong in the game, as they were (in my humble opinion) easily more important than the dutch in the new world (although that depends if s. America is included in the new world). I'd say it's a major mistake, even if they apparently weren't in the original.

As for the map, if Firaxis as a collective stroke and don't add in realistic maps, I'm sure the modding community will have one up in no time.

Getting impatient and it's months away...

 

[Tullaris]

What, no Portugal?

Come on, they definitely belong in the game, as they were (in my humble opinion) easily more important than the dutch in the new world (although that depends if s. America is included in the new world). I'd say it's a major mistake, even if they apparently weren't in the original.

As for the map, if Firaxis as a collective stroke and don't add in realistic maps, I'm sure the modding community will have one up in no time.

Getting impatient and it's months away...

No personal offence but that is absolutely not true.

Portugal was ruled by Spain from 1580-1640.

When Portugal regained independence it was a poor country with no fleet and at the mercy of bigger powers. It could barely hold on to its only notable colony Brazil. It was in no position to fight with the other powers over the Americas. Brazil was only colonized at the coast. The backland was just amazon jungle. It is not comparable to the Brazil of today.

The Dutch Republic was the richest country in Europe. This time period is known in the Netherlands as the Golden Age. The Dutch dominated world trade in the 17th century, conquering a vast colonial empire and operating the largest fleet of merchantmen of all western nations. It had one of the strongest navies, stronger than England and France for sure. Indeed the Spanish were more afraid of the Dutch than the English.
Let me remind you that the Dutch humiliated the English in the second Anglo-Dutch war in the 1660s. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raid_on_the_Medway
King William III of England was actually the Dutch stadholder.

But since you are American you probably don't get this in history class.

Sorry for getting so fanatical about this. But its like saying Russia is more powerful than the U.S. at the moment.

 

[TheLastOne36]

But since you are American you probably don't get this in history class.

Sorry for getting so fanatical about this. But its like saying Russia is more powerful than the U.S. at the moment.

1. He's Canadian
2. I learned this when i was in Canada, why wouldn't he?

 

[cheeze_pavilion]

The Dutch Republic was the richest country in Europe. This time period is known in the Netherlands as the Golden Age.

...

But since you are American you probably don't get this in history class.

Sorry for getting so fanatical about this. But its like saying Russia is more powerful than the U.S. at the moment.

We in America *do* however have history classes that allow us to 'get' that the territories that would later become the Dutch Republic were still under Spanish rule at the start date of the game and how it makes for quite an anachronism for a merchantman from the Netherlands to show up on the same turn as the other powers in the game.

Remember, it's not only a game, it's a game about the 13 colonies of British North America becoming a new country. Doesn't so much have to do with the company being American (besides maybe the initial decision to make the game all about colonies going independent) as to do with the victory conditions.

Really, if the game's title were to reflect what you're actually doing in the game, it would be called 'Nationalism', not 'Colonization' with all those Liberty Bells you make. Something to keep in mind when thinking about why certain choices were made: the game was never meant to be something along the lines of an expansion to 'Europa Universalis'; it's much closer to the kind of loose historical game that is 'Civilization'. A lot more focused, but still: the game never even attempts to be anything approaching a simulation.

So I really don't see the big deal about focusing on New Amsterdam in a game about cities like New York, or thinking Portugal should be in a game where somehow the Netherlands show up almost a century before they even declared their independence.

 

[T.A JONES]

Perhaps because of our past experience? Such as:

Im sure more would reply if BtS wasn't on the way with its professionaly programed throne room or build own crib reward system.(whatever one they decide)
- smart to include both but don't count on it. thats to much work for what they get from you wallet

All this talk about it being the biggest X pak yet and then go with no throne room when they had already invested in a version that looks culturly flavoured and ready to go for Warlords?

Nah ya gotta believe they let it'll lapse over to refine further for BtS.

Is there a Throne Room in BtS? No.

Anyway, you are right about one thing: it is premature to judge it. "You know what happens when you presume... You make a Prez out of you and me!" .

True but 'false' presumation is a nice tool to. I mean, dependin were your REAL allegiances reside that is

Working persuasion for both sides can turn out great. Lets face it, the average post is an unproductive thing to pertake.

That is, correct prophecy bout 'anything civ4' is peachy But, if your good at what you say yet know it ain't coming to pass, you got a chance to kick fireaxis's fanbois in the ass when hopes you raise are dashed.
Yes it was good when Throne room had been trashed (back in Warlords early stages) It was a letdown for most but me, one of the biggest doubters of a infiltrated company.
You see We need more to rise up and demand to even the score. Enough of this filth TAke2 suckered us into calling 'Civ 4'


I'll do what it takes to save 1 single strategy soul from this savage circus of monstrosities they call civ4. lol

Can't conceive me doing this? lol Well for those who can't. Here, its like this: On the news Colinization was coming out who was the 1st poster to shout GREAT NEWS EVERYBODY!!

Awesome!!
THis sounds like a new xpak for civ4 but better it says you don't need the orginal, meaning those who missed Warlords and Bts can have all that plus the the new game!

Pertake in any type of posting you prefer . Sometimes Im more the Georgetown surfer

 

[Gumbolt]

I doubt any game is ever gonna be 100% to the liking of everyone in terms of history of the Americas and leaders/nations and local tribes included.

They are making a remake of a game from 1995. I would of kept the same four leaders as the old game. Afterall change is not always a good thing. I think the more you move away from North America / Canada the more complicated you make it. I for one dont want to see game expand to south America or other continents like Africa, Asia or other colonies the English ruled.

I think to include the entire English empire would make for an entirely seperate game. Afterall the English empire did cover 75% of the known world at one point.

In fact I would love to see a civ4 scenario of the British Empire at its peak. I would be happy to see the Americans as a English colony on the game. I can forgive a small nations minor uprising. Afterall great things come from great people.

The Alternative scenario is to have the English empire starting out. I would give them a huge fleet deserved of a great empire. In terms of resources I would make it so the new worlds contained most of the resources beyond food.

If someone can set these scenarios up Cheers.

God save the queen

I swear I am not stirring trouble

 

[kolpo]

I for one dont want to see game expand to south America or other continents like Africa, Asia or other colonies the English ruled.

The original colonization did include South America, the South American Inca civilization and the Tupi tribe where in the game. Mainly South American founding fathers where included in the original colonization like Simón Bolívar.

I think that Portugal was not included because they might end up being too similar to the Spanish. The Spanish conquest bonus against natives would also fit with the Portuguese, who destroyed the Inca civilization.

 

[TheLastOne36]

The original colonization did include South America, the South American Inca civilization and the Tupi tribe where in the game. Mainly South American founding fathers where included in the original colonization like Simón Bolívar.

I think that Portugal was not included because they might end up being too similar to the Spanish. The Spanish conquest bonus against natives would also fit with the Portuguese, who destroyed the Inca civilization.

No no, you got it all wrong. The Spanish destroyed the Inca. Portugal should get an exploration bonus. For example Land explorers/pioneers/whatever there called get 1 movement bonus.

 

[Öjevind Lång]

Using Stuyvesant as the colonial leader is historically accurate, if the scenario is only in North America. Hopefully, there is more than one colonial leader to choose from for each civ and that for different scenarios you can choose a different leader. However, I'm not too sure if they have already decided to only allow one leader per colony. If that is the case then picking Stuyvesant was a mistake.

There are two colonial leaders for each country. We also know from the previews that both Americas are in the game: the Indian tribes include the Incas, the Aztecs and the Tupis. The same was true of the original Colonization game. I believe the previewer forgot to mention the Arawks, who lived in the Caribbean and were the eighth Indian tribe in the original game. Since the tribes mentioned are the ones in the original game, there is no reason why they would have left out the Arawaks. That would mean we get the Incas, the Aztecs, the Cherokee, the Iroquois, the Arawaks, the Apache, the Sioux and the Tupis.

Personally, I am very happy the have essentially kept the original game with better graphics. Also, I trust they have eliminated the "enemy dragoons surround your settlements in peacetime" idiocy and the careless way the war continued after you had won your war for independence. With those changes, and with the addition of cultural borders and information about which specialists the native villages train, this seems to be pretty much the new "Colonization" I have been longing for for years.

Of course, I would have liked it if they had included the Portuguese, something I know they considered doing even back when the original game was being made, but perhaps they left them out as complicating the game too much. Their specialty would have been profiting from black slavery, and that might be too hot to handle. Though one previewer said something about making a decision whether to have slavery or not which affected the character of your colonies.

 

[Öjevind Lång]

The original colonization did include South America, the South American Inca civilization and the Tupi tribe where in the game. Mainly South American founding fathers where included in the original colonization like Simón Bolívar.

I think that Portugal was not included because they might end up being too similar to the Spanish. The Spanish conquest bonus against natives would also fit with the Portuguese, who destroyed the Inca civilization.

The original game did indeed include South America, butitwas the Spanish under Pizarro who destroyed the Inca empire.

 

[kolpo]

No no, you got it all wrong. The Spanish destroyed the Inca. Portugal should get an exploration bonus. For example Land explorers/pioneers/whatever there called get 1 movement bonus.

You are right it where indeed the spanish. I'm not sure whatever exploration is a powerfull enough bonus, especially on pre made maps.

 

[Toni1]

You are right it where indeed the spanish. I'm not sure whatever exploration is a powerfull enough bonus, especially on pre made maps.

Increased sight range for ships? All Scouts function as experts? etc...

Oh and Spanish combat bonus probably is not ment to reprecent any historical advantage Spanish may or may not have had. It's more likely to encourage agressive stance against natives (otherwise why would player pick spain?).

 

[deathtollrising]

cool this game looks good