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UFO: Enemy Unknown, remake by Firaxis

Discussion in 'All Other Games' started by Rub'Rum, Jan 5, 2012.

  1. sherbz

    sherbz Emperor

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    Are you sure that you were on the same level of elevation as the wounded soldier? From memory, even if you are like one step down from the wounded soldier and right next to them you still cannot heal them. The same goes for stunning i believe.

    I actually find seekers a bit of a joke, and over watch is actually (IMO) the best tactic to kill them (excepting throwing a battle scanner, which is the best way). When you trip them, bunch your whole squad up behind cover close together and stick them on overwatch. When the seeker de cloaks, it will get a barrage of shots and be killed. Keep overwatching until they are all dead. Simples!

    I am of the opinion that the base assault should always be done immediately after you get armour and lasers. The reason why i say this is that the only hard counter to elite mutons is a mind controller. 3 elite mutons can be a real pain in the arse if you dont have an experienced team. In order to effectively counter them you need a psi soldier, and for that you need base assault. By the time you have built the psi labs and found a soldier and levelled them up, you will probably be at the point of elite mutons. They can do a ton of damage too, much more than regular mutons. Its possible for them to outright kill a soldier wearing ghost armour in one shot.

    Because the base assault scales with where you are in the game, there is not really much benefit in waiting. The only thing that changes is that you have to deal with sectoid commanders in UFO's instead of overseers (and get through the mission of course). For that laser weaponry is sufficient.
     
  2. PhilBowles

    PhilBowles Deity

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    I think that was fixed so that small differences in elevation were no barrier to treatment. But no, that wasn't the case here - the soldier was beside a car and the medic was standing directly on top of her in the same spot where she went down.

    Even in those cases you see the health cross marking down and the medikit treatment circle (if you have someone with a medikit selected), and neither showed here.

    I don't think Seekers are meant to be a threat, they're meant to do exactly that - siphon off your overwatch fire, since they will generally move first and you'll be left without anyone available to shoot the Mechtoid coming round the corner afterwards. It's the same function drones perform in later game stages - few things are as annoying as having a spare drone floating around taking all your overwatch fire before the accompanying Cyberdisc appears.

    Basically, they're a solution to the 'sit on overwatch permanently' tactic, because when a Seeker's around that tactic simply stops working - and unlike drones you can't easily kill them in your turn. However, as you only ever get two Seekers per mission, and the surviving Seeker will never attack the turn after the last one did, they're too easy to plan for.

    As I just found out, having lost two key experienced soldiers in a brutal abduction mission (medikit went down - the Sectoid Commander was crafty and had my mind-controlled sniper drop grenades on herself after moving close to my other soldiers. Unfortunately in this context, Training Roulette had made her a grenadier, so she got to do it twice. One of the explosions took out the guy with the medikit, as well as the sniper herself - also unfortunately in this context, my heavy close combat specialist didn't hold her fire. Her own secondary heart didn't help the heavy since Zhang missed a key shot that would have killed the final Cyberdisc in time, it being down to 2 HP - that's Damage Roulette for you...), and had the MEC wounded. The next mission was a complete squad wipe against just three Muton Elites.

    I'm playing with Greater Good enabled, and unfortunately Sectoid Commanders are enough of a threat that it's pretty tough to take them alive unless you get them in a corner or the mind control fails. So I'm still building my psi labs, having not taken a Commander until the third or fourth time I encountered them.

    I've also found the reason I didn't encounter Portent this time through: checking my options, it seems Progeny was disabled, presumably as a result of selecting the More Than Human SW option (it is, after all, a bit pointless to have an option to make the psionic gift very rare, then be able to get four psionics in the mini-campaign. Still, it should be possible for the abductees not to have psionic powers, as with Zhang - a story reason is given for that).

    On SW options, I still don't think Itchy Trigger Tentacle is working properly - across the whole campaign so far I've only had aliens fire when revealed 4-5 times, and those were all Mechtoids and Cyberdiscs that would otherwise overwatch, however the description explicitly says that aliens will sometimes fire instead of moving. I'm also fairly sure that the PAX demo showed Sectoid Commanders firing when revealed in one mission.
     
  3. Rubin

    Rubin King

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    This could be the suppression bug. Was suppression fire in play during the mission?
     
  4. PhilBowles

    PhilBowles Deity

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    No, so it's not that either...

    Aliens seem to use suppression rather less in EW than EU, and I haven't rolled it for any of my soldiers (I like training roulette, but the absence of suppression and field medic, and rarity of bullet swarm and HEAT ammo for my heavies, definitely present a challenge).
     
  5. Rubin

    Rubin King

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    Forgot to add:
    Working as intented, according to the Ufopedia:
     
  6. PhilBowles

    PhilBowles Deity

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    Hmm, that's a shame - it would be nice to have an option for all aliens to sometimes fire when revealed.

    EDIT: Strictly speaking, the Seeker is an alien with a ranged attack that doesn't take cover as well, but I've yet to actually see it hit anything with its ranged attack.

    It would also be welcome if there was an in-game UFOpaedia, as in the originals - it's a major flaw with the interface.
     
  7. Pikkis

    Pikkis Prince

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    Interesting you should say that. I only heard about the scaling factor lately, so I've always done the base assault very late, only after I've had Titan Armors, all Plasma weaponry, or both. I'll lose 0-3 countries before that (Classic), and that's nothing that can't be coped with. I guess I'll continue to do so, because at least that way I know what the odds are, and Ironman isn't usually the place for possibly game-ending metagames.

    Perhaps because of that waiting, I've rarely found Muton Elites a problem. There was one occasion, though (an Overseer mission), where I fought 2 Muton Elites and 2 Sectopods at the same time. That mission ended up being of quite a cost, as I lost 2 of my best.

    I think this is one scenario in which my fondness of Snap Shot Snipers is definitely of use, as Snap Shot (preferably with Low Profile) allows placing them in the front-line so that they will take the Drones out with 100% or almost 100% accuracy, and the soldiers right behind them will still have their Overwatch shots left for the Cyberdisc. (Getting Sentinel or Rapid Reaction trait for the Snipers through Training Roulette would be extremely pleasant, of course.)

    It could be because of that, but Progeny seems to be disabled by default at least after completing EW once (possibly always, I'm not sure).

    In my experience, HEAT Ammo also suits Snipers quite well, and they will with certainty get to choose between In The Zone and Double Tap at Colonel promotion.

    I think there was some kind of database in the pause menu, but I don't remember how vast it was.
     
  8. PhilBowles

    PhilBowles Deity

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    After experiencing both I'd recommend doing the base assault earlier - no Sectopod in the base, and more importantly the subsequent base defence has many fewer enemies (in my experience - based on one game with a September base defence and one with a July one - 42 vs. 34 aliens respectively, and again no Sectopod).

    The Overseer mission is one of the few scripted missions that can be very variable, since the aliens seem to have a wide variety of spawn points and when you encounter them, and in what combinations, can make all the difference. Last time through I found it rather easy, as the second Sectopod was the last alien to appear and I'd run across four (of five) Muton Elites right at the start - mind controlling one and taking out the others with a combination of a blaster launcher, MEC grenade and firepower.

    Drones in the air count as being out of cover anyway - Squad Sight snipers could do the same. I have had good experiences with Snap Shot, but in general better, consistent results with Squad Sight, and the final section of the final mission is harder without Squad Sight since you have to expose the sniper to try and kill the Ethereal (as I found in my just-completed campaign, having lost my Squad Sight sniper some time previously, without time to retrain another to colonel).

    That would be it, then.

    I kept hoping for HEAT ammo snipers and never got one.

    It's just a short list of 'how to play' screens. There's nothing that compiles all your research archives, foundry projects, facility descriptions, item descriptions and game effect text in one place - and in order to find out what a given item does in game terms, you still have to manufacture one and click on its profile in the barracks.
     
  9. sherbz

    sherbz Emperor

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    The optimal time for base assault in vanillia (again, IMO) was the end of month 3. That way you could dodge having to face cyberdisks and Beserkers. Interestingly though, you would still get drones (kinda pointless. Suggests to me that the devs dont intend on you taking it that early, which is all to the good as far as im concerned).

    In my first play through in EW i took out the base early in month 4 and i think you would do well to do any better than that, assuming of course you want to have mechs, laser weaponry and armor. If you do, then the most threatening thing you will face is cyberdisks and mechtoids.

    The best sectoid commander to capture is the one in the base itself because it is isolated. Assuming you have your whole squad still, it shouldnt be too much of a problem. One tactic i have found works fairly well is if you leave a high health soldier out of cover near the commander. That usually encourages them to shoot rather than mind control. Seeming as they only have plasma pistols, the max damage you take is 6, which is often ok. Then use a combination of pistol shots and grenades to reduce their health to 1, and go in for the capture. If you have disabling shot on your sniper this can also be used to good effect on one of your own soldiers buying you some time (does about 2 damage i think - this was a life saver for me when my mech got mind controlled in a later mission and i had a sectopod i had to deal with before 3 sectoid commanders).
     
  10. Pikkis

    Pikkis Prince

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    Squad Sight Snipers would only trigger when Drone entered the vision field of another soldier so it would draw Overwatch fire from two soldiers, not just one (this assuming one didn't have an additional turn to set up the Squadsighters in the frontline).

    Last time I did take a 78% (I think, and this doesn't include the reflection chance) shot (by a Snap Shot Sniper) to finish the Uber Ethereal off, but that wasn't my last action on the turn. Also, Ghost Grenades.

    By saying I like Snap Shot Snipers I mean that I train my Snipers that way 90% or more of the time. They suit the way I play and, at the very least, are underrated.

    I agree. For me personally, the problem is often that I tend to forgot to take Arc Throwers on a mission, sometimes even Medikits, even when I know for certain I should take some.
     
  11. PhilBowles

    PhilBowles Deity

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    You always get an unaccompanied drone pair or two on that mission, even if you play it late enough to have Sectopods (and in EW you'll encounter Cyberdiscs for the first time in the second terror mission, so there's no way of avoiding them in June - month 3). It is pointless since they never seem to spawn with anything else, so can't do their distracting overwatch thing.

    I can't remember if I got Mechtoids in the mission or not, playing it in July; Cyberdiscs were definitely there.

    That depends when you trigger it - I find I can't flank the Mutons at the base of the stairs without triggering the commander (but then I wasn't using ghost grenades, which might do the trick), and he starts a lot further from your team when he triggers - because of the open layout of that part of the base - than a typical Commander in a UFO.

    Hmm, I have yet to see Sectoid Commanders try to shoot without either being on overwatch or having their psi abilities on cooldown in EW - they always favour using one or other psi trick. I have most success with a high will soldier - if they try and fail to MC, you know they aren't a threat for several more turns. My 102 Will MEC stalled most of the psi attempts made against him (in one mission he strode into the middle of three Sectoid Commanders, shrugging off attempted mind control, a couple of failed mindfrays, and psi-panic).

    Oh I see, I thought you were talking about dealing with the drones in your turn and still being able to set up overwatch (i.e. In the Zone). I don't see it as a plus that you can put a sniper in a position to overwatch-kill Drones, when those are precisely the soldiers I prefer not to snipe drones with in overwatch!

    I was out of ghost grenades at that point - due to bad shooting that left Muton survivors and my men exposed, I had to use my penultimate one earlier than I'd have liked, and I needed one to get my MEC into position to electropulse the Sectopods without alerting them.

    I usually have the problem that I take only one Arc Thrower, and inevitably the carrier gets critically wounded or killed before I reach the target...
     
  12. Pikkis

    Pikkis Prince

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    June is month 4, or did you mean something else?

    What I'm aiming at is a scenario like the one in the first room of the Temple Ship:

    A Drone wanders into sight
    Is (90%+) killed by whichever of the frontline Snapshotters is closer.

    A second Drone wanders into sight
    Is (90%+) killed by the other frontline Snapshotter.

    A Cyberdisc wanders into sight
    The remaining four units focus their reaction fire on the Cyberdisc.

    The Drone and Cyberdisc from the other side will not draw reaction fire, but it's a successful Overwatch turn nevertheless. Furthermore, I think it's as close to optimal as possible considering that no alien unit will be overkilled by multiple soldiers. (Of course it's not a particularly difficult room anyway, but it's an example at least.)
     
  13. PhilBowles

    PhilBowles Deity

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    Ah, good catch - I meant May. I was counting months by terror missions (none in month 1, Chryssalids in month 2, Cyberdisc in month 3), I just missed had April in mind as month 1 for some reason.

    What I'm aiming at is a scenario like the one in the first room of the Temple Ship:

    That seems suboptimal to me - as well as having to run two snipers, both with Snap Shot, you're relying on likely less accurate soldiers, and those with less reliably-damaging long-ranged weapons, to take out the disc. Of course Training Roulette makes outcomes harder to predict, as it won't necessarily be the sniper who's got Opportunist. Surely you could achieve the same result if the firer who takes out the Drone is a Support or for that matter a close Assault. If a Squad Sight sniper is set up without a firing angle on either drone at the start of the drone's move, his fire shouldn't trigger (picture that mission, with the units moving aerially and gradually coming into sight of the squad on the platform - the drones move first, come into sight close to the start of their move, and are destroyed. The Cyberdisc moves along the same route, but survives - and so this is what the sniper sees to shoot).
     
  14. Pikkis

    Pikkis Prince

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    Since all five units (in that scene) can't be killed during the Overwatch, I'm just trying to get a good deal of very likely hits to be able to finish the aliens off on the subsequent turn (though ITZ Sniper will of course take care of all remaining Drones, so you're probably right about the suboptimality, but it's likely to make no difference). Itchy Trigger Tentacle will make matters worse, but that can't be thoroughly avoided with the exception of ghosting everyone.

    I missed this one earlier:

    I thought so too, but by an accident came to realize that F1 will show the details pre-manufacturing. Research is still required, however.
     
  15. Pikkis

    Pikkis Prince

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    Decided to try yet another playthrough with emphasis on quick alien base attack. Found out MECs can't activate the train in Slingshot #2. So happy. :mad:
     
  16. PhilBowles

    PhilBowles Deity

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    Are you sure it's MECs that can't activate it? EW has a change whereby you can't activate an interactive element (such as a train transponder, bomb or meld canister) with a soldier that runs (unless it has Run & Gun activated) - previously you could select a character after they'd finished a run move next to, say, a bomb, and activate it. I'm fairly sure I activated a transponder in that mission with a MEC.

    Or do you mean MECs don't get to start the train if only a MEC makes it to the "exit" point in time? That would make sense but seem strange mechanically.
     
  17. Wolfbeckett

    Wolfbeckett Jerkin' and nonsense.

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    Err, it sounds like a bug is what it sounds like, I have 100% activated that train with a MEC before. In fact, because of their increased movement range, I almost always end up using a fist MEC to do it.
     
  18. ImperialGuard

    ImperialGuard Prince

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    I had problems "activating" things with MECs as well. It got to the point that I stopped trying to use MECs.

    Can't remember if it was bombs on Council missions, or Meld canisters (or both).
     
  19. Pikkis

    Pikkis Prince

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    I only learned about the post-selection thing after it had been fixed (I consider it a bug). This was not about a transponder, but getting to the front of the train. I had all transponders in place, MEC in front and 2 or 3 turns remaining at that time. The train didn't move so I assumed I had to kill the remaining aliens and had that done by the time it was my last turn. The train didn't leave even then, however. I lost the mission and I think I didn't even get the resources I had gathered (which included two Muton captives i.e. two Plasma Rifles). Quit that Ironman save at that point.
     
  20. sherbz

    sherbz Emperor

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    My understanding is that Mechs cannot interact with things, so they cannot open doors other than by just walking through them. However, they can definitely collect meld. Not sure about transponders.

    I think I have the game sussed now: Research meld first, build 1 workshop in month 1 (1st abduction take engineers) and then dig for your thermo generator and try to build the mech lab ASAP. Launch 1 satellite in month 1 ensuring that you will get at least 10 engineers at month end (dependent on start location). After you have researched meld its best to go for either carapace or laser weapons IMO, but really its up to you. The crucial thing is to get 6 satellites up in month 2. For that you need another workshop and enough cash for 6 satellites, plus 2 satellite uplinks mid way through the second month. You should have the power from the thermo generator you got towards the end of month 1. You should also have enough spare cash to get an officer training school and of course build your mech.

    Then in month 3 you can start to go to town and build genetics labs + other labs, foundry, alien containment etc. You should never really hurt for money again, mainly weapon fragments (assuming you beat slingshot).

    Im trying to decide now what the best composition and priority of mechs/gene modded soldiers is. My initial thoughts are, in order of priority:

    1. Mech with flamethrower – easily the best mech
    2. Heavy with mimetic skin (preferably with shredder rocket) – useful as a scout, and gives you an almost guaranteed rocket attack opening.
    3. Support squaddie with mimetic skin (for Exalt missions – doesn’t have to be support) – I prefer supports with mimetic skin because they have sprint as a perk which can enable them to get good flanking shots after they have been cloaked. Another option is an assault (or even sniper), although I prefer assaults to not have mimetic skin because of lightning reflex, which is a very good perk. I take a squaddie here to get some easy promotions (Exalt maps are usually just killing fields).
    4. Both snipers with depth perception (I usually use 2 snipers)

    These seem fairly straight forward to me as the best choices. I think afterwards the choice gets a little more complicated and nothing is clearly the “best” choice. At the moment I have been going with:

    5. Another heavy with mimetic skin.
    6. Support with secondary heart (when they die)
    7. Assault with secondary heart and adrenal fluids (when they kill)
    8. Snipers with muscle fibre density (when they can jump)

    Anyone have any other strategies? I guess the mind control ones are ok, but I see them as mainly purely defensive and thus a bit of a waste (I know secondary heart is purely defensive, however this involves certain death, whereas mind control can be mitigated in other ways).
     

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