Ultimate Wishlist for Great People in Civ6

[Zaarin]

I just realized that somehow John Milton is not a Great Writer. How on Earth can you have a list of great writers and exclude John Milton? Or John Donne. Or John Keats. (John was a rather popular English name...) I also wouldn't mind seeing Shakespeare's contemporary Ben Jonson. (I realize the developers wanted some variety--and I do too--but as a literature major there are some gaping holes in their representation of English literature. ) I can't say I'm a particular fan, but the lack of Dante Alighieri is also rather pointed. I'm not as much into American literature, but I'd add Henry James (The Portrait of a Lady, "Daisy Miller"), Edith Wharton (The Custom of the Country, The Age of Innocence), and Tennessee Williams (A Street Car Named Desire, The Glass Menagerie).

On the international front, it would be nice to see Shota Rustaveli (The Knight in the Panther Skin), who happened to serve in the court of Tamar; Gabriel Garcia Marquez (A Hundred Years of Solitude, Love in the Time of Cholera); Jorge Luis Borges (Ficciones, El Aleph); Franz Kafka (Metamorphoses, The Trial); and Luo Guanzhong (Romance of the Three Kingdoms). In fact, let's have all four Chinese classics and their authors.

I wish there were a way to include anonymous authors. Works like Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (and its cousin Pearl), Le chanson de Roland, El Cantar de mio Cid, The Epic of Gilgamesh, etc. seem worthy of inclusion despite their lack of known author.

For Great Artists, I'd like to see William Adolphe Bouguereau, Alphonse Mucha, Simon Stålenhag (he's alive and active, so that's not going to happen), Pascal Campion (ditto), M. C. Escher, Andy Warhol...

For Great Musicians, it seems unfortunate that no jazz is represented. Sure, Sinatra is out-of-bounds, but what about Billie Holiday, Duke Ellington, Louis Armstrong, or Ella Fitzgerald? Much of their work has passed into public domain. Not jazz, but the same era also offers us The Andrews Sisters.

 

[Phrozen]

I did recommend Robert Johnson (Delta Blues) and Scott Joplin (Ragtime).

 

[Xandinho]

It's a pity that copyright excludes some possibilities, I would have some good names to suggest.

 

[God of Kings]

Musicians:
John Adams (I mean, he's a prolific composer AND his work has been in the series)

Though John Adams' music was featured in Civ IV, he's alive and kicking and thus some of his music is definitely under copyright.

 

[Guandao]

I just realized that somehow John Milton is not a Great Writer. How on Earth can you have a list of great writers and exclude John Milton? Or John Donne. Or John Keats. (John was a rather popular English name...) I also wouldn't mind seeing Shakespeare's contemporary Ben Jonson. (I realize the developers wanted some variety--and I do too--but as a literature major there are some gaping holes in their representation of English literature. ) I can't say I'm a particular fan, but the lack of Dante Alighieri is also rather pointed. I'm not as much into American literature, but I'd add Henry James (The Portrait of a Lady, "Daisy Miller"), Edith Wharton (The Custom of the Country, The Age of Innocence), and Tennessee Williams (A Street Car Named Desire, The Glass Menagerie).

On the international front, it would be nice to see Shota Rustaveli (The Knight in the Panther Skin), who happened to serve in the court of Tamar; Gabriel Garcia Marquez (A Hundred Years of Solitude, Love in the Time of Cholera); Jorge Luis Borges (Ficciones, El Aleph); Franz Kafka (Metamorphoses, The Trial); and Luo Guanzhong (Romance of the Three Kingdoms). In fact, let's have all four Chinese classics and their authors.

I wish there were a way to include anonymous authors. Works like Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (and its cousin Pearl), Le chanson de Roland, El Cantar de mio Cid, The Epic of Gilgamesh, etc. seem worthy of inclusion despite their lack of known author.

For Great Artists, I'd like to see William Adolphe Bouguereau, Alphonse Mucha, Simon Stålenhag (he's alive and active, so that's not going to happen), Pascal Campion (ditto), M. C. Escher, Andy Warhol...

For Great Musicians, it seems unfortunate that no jazz is represented. Sure, Sinatra is out-of-bounds, but what about Billie Holiday, Duke Ellington, Louis Armstrong, or Ella Fitzgerald? Much of their work has passed into public domain. Not jazz, but the same era also offers us The Andrews Sisters.

I added names from Civ5 first. Then names of people honored by Google Doodles (I'm still working on that). John Milton wasn't a great writer in Civ5 and he was never honored by a Google Doodle so far.

I think Ella Fitzgerald's work is still copyright. She died not that long ago. In the 90s. Same goes for many of the others. They have to be dead for 70 years in order for their work to pass into the public domain. I know Firaxis used some living and dead copyrighted Musicians in BNW, but they seem to be avoiding that for Civ6 (likely they don't want to pay their estates royalties).

Some of the people you suggested are already on the Wishlist.

 

[Zaarin]

I added names from Civ5 first. Then names of people honored by Google Doodles (I'm still working on that). John Milton wasn't a great writer in Civ5 and he was never honored by a Google Doodle so far.

Oh, the outrage wasn't directed at you but at Firaxis. Given that Paradise Lost is widely regarded as the greatest epic in Modern English (sorry, Keats, but you left Hyperion unfinished ), to say nothing of Milton's shorter works, drama, and prose essays, his exclusion seems about as pointed as leaving out Shakespeare IMO.

I think Ella Fitzgerald's work is still copyright. She died not that long ago. In the 90s. Same goes for many of the others. They have to be dead for 70 years in order for their work to pass into the public domain. I know Firaxis used some living and dead copyrighted Musicians in BNW, but they seem to be avoiding that for Civ6 (likely they don't want to pay their estates royalties).

Some are--she had a long career that spanned the thirties into the sixties--but some of her earlier works are public domain, I'm pretty certain. Of course, Fitzgerald, like most jazz artists, was a performer not a composer, and most jazz standards are public domain anyway: so the real question is whether the particular performance is public domain. Like I said, I'm reasonably certain at least some of Fitzgerald's earlier performances have passed into public domain. (Of course, IMO Ella Fitzgerald's voice got better with age and she did her best work in the 50s and 60s, which is still very much copyrighted.)

Some of the people you suggested are already on the Wishlist.

So I noticed after I posted. I haven't been following this thread.

 

[AnonymousSpeed]

I just realized that somehow John Milton is not a Great Writer. How on Earth can you have a list of great writers and exclude John Milton? Or John Donne. Or John Keats. (John was a rather popular English name...) I also wouldn't mind seeing Shakespeare's contemporary Ben Jonson.

According to one of my professors, it was also quite popular with 1st century Hebrews. And apparently, one third of Jewish women were named some variant of Mary back then. It's quite a long standing problem.

I wish there were a way to include anonymous authors. Works like Sir Gawain and the Green Knight (and its cousin Pearl), Le chanson de Roland, El Cantar de mio Cid, The Epic of Gilgamesh, etc. seem worthy of inclusion despite their lack of known author.

I'd be down for a way to create Great Works without recruiting Great People. That should spice up the cultural victory some.

Louis Armstrong

If it works for Scatman John, it works for me.

Oh, that's another John. Of course.

You know who else is named John?

John Lenon. If not for copyright (and the rigid structure of how cultural great people work), we could have the Beatles as a Great Musician which generates four Great Works of music, each one written by a different Beatle.

 

[seancolorado]

Affandi, Indonesian painter. Probably too recent however.

His closest comparison that somebody has heard of is our Dutch homeboy post-impressionist, Vinny van G

 

[Guandao]

Affandi, Indonesian painter. Probably too recent however.

His closest comparison that somebody has heard of is our Dutch homeboy post-impressionist, Vinny van G

Yeah, he's too recent and most of his work is probably copyrighted.

 

[God of Kings]

How about Phra Maha Raja-Kru (พระมหาราชครู)? He's one of Thailand's most famous poets. This thread is in need of more non-Anglophone writers and Phra Maha Raja-Kru would be excellent.

One of his most famous stories by him is about a tiger cub and a calf and how they were transformed into humans: เสือโคคำฉันท์

Unfortunately, there's no widely available English translation, despite it being in the public domain.

Here's the full text of that story: https://th.wikisource.org/wiki/เสือโคคำฉันท์ (again, only in Thai)

@sukritact This would be a great opportunity for you to translate an excerpt of it and have Phra Maha Raja-Kru added in as a great writer.

 

[Guandao]

How about Phra Maha Raja-Kru (พระมหาราชครู)? He's one of Thailand's most famous poets. This thread is in need of more non-Anglophone writers and Phra Maha Raja-Kru would be excellent.

One of his most famous stories by him is about a tiger cub and a calf and how they were transformed into humans: เสือโคคำฉันท์

Unfortunately, there's no widely available English translation, despite it being in the public domain.

Here's the full text of that story: https://th.wikisource.org/wiki/เสือโคคำฉันท์ (again, only in Thai)

@sukritact This would be a great opportunity for you to translate an excerpt of it and have Phra Maha Raja-Kru added in as a great writer.

Does he have a Wiki page in any language? I would like to know the date of his death.

 

[Kimiimaro]

John of Bohemia would make a good Great General.

 

[God of Kings]

Does he have a Wiki page in any language? I would like to know the date of his death.

Unfortunately, he doesn't. Even worse, he doesn't even have a known year of birth or death.

He wrote the tiger cub and calf story around 1657.

 

[Guandao]

Unfortunately, he doesn't. Even worse, he doesn't even have a known year of birth or death.

He wrote the tiger cub and calf story around 1657.

1657? Then his work is definitely in the public domain. I'll add him to the wishlist.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Great Admiral: Edward Teach: Allows all naval units the chance to capture enemy ships.
Great Artist: Frida Kahlo: The Two Fridas, Diego and I, The Broken Column
Great Engineer: Eli Whitney: +2 Production for Plantations (Would this be controversial?)
Great General: George Washington: Instantly allows land units to cross rivers without penalty.
Great Merchant: Sam Walton: Markets provide +2 more gold and an extra copy of each luxury resource you have.
Great Musician: John Newton ("Amazing Grace", "Glorious Things of Thee Are Spoken") he is a hymnist
Great Scientist: Benjamin Franklin: Triggers the Eureka moment for electricity and +2 Production in Industrial Zones (already on the list for Engineers I believe)
Great Writer: J.R.R. Tolkien (The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings) Might be too recent?

 

[Guandao]

Great Admiral: Edward Teach: Allows all naval units the chance to capture enemy ships.
Great Artist: Frida Kahlo: The Two Fridas, Diego and I, The Broken Column
Great Engineer: Eli Whitney: +2 Production for Plantations (Would this be controversial?)
Great General: George Washington: Instantly allows land units to cross rivers without penalty.
Great Merchant: Sam Walton: Markets provide +2 more gold and an extra copy of each luxury resource you have.
Great Musician: John Newton ("Amazing Grace", "Glorious Things of Thee Are Spoken") he is a hymnist
Great Scientist: Benjamin Franklin: Triggers the Eureka moment for electricity and +2 Production in Industrial Zones (already on the list for Engineers I believe)
Great Writer: J.R.R. Tolkien (The Hobbit, The Lord of the Rings) Might be too recent?

I believe Frida Kahlo's artwork won't be in the public domain until at least 2024. And Tolkien's works won't be public domain until 2044.

 

[AnonymousSpeed]

Great Admiral: Edward Teach: Allows all naval units the chance to capture enemy ships.

This'd actually be pretty cool.

Great Engineer: Eli Whitney: +2 Production for Plantations (Would this be controversial?)

I don't immediately feel that Eli Whitney would be a controversial inclusion (though I disagree with your proposed effect). However, while I'm less pasty than Elmer's Glue, I'm still pretty white, so I'd ask some other people about that.

Great Merchant: Sam Walton: Markets provide +2 more gold and an extra copy of each luxury resource you have.

Not sure I like this effect. Depending on if corporations are added or not though, this'd be a good choice to add to the Great Merchant list.

Great Scientist: Benjamin Franklin: Triggers the Eureka moment for electricity and +2 Production in Industrial Zones (already on the list for Engineers I believe)

Personally, I don't really like the idea of having Benjamin Franklin as a Great Person, especially the one who gives the Eureka for electricity. While Benjamin Franklin is a very famous and influential polymath, I feel his grand reputation has almost separated itself from his scientific endeavors and that he's more of a political influence and renaissance man in the public conscious. His "discovery of electricity" becomes more of a side note to illustrate that he's smart.

I would personally rather see someone like Faraday, whose name is inseparable from his studies concerning electricity, as providing the Eureka for electricity technology. However, I admit that Franklin is still a very important figure in the development of the study and application of electricity.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

These were just off the top of my head. After looking it up Faraday would probably be a better choice? What would your

This'd actually be pretty cool.


I don't immediately feel that Eli Whitney would be a controversial inclusion (though I disagree with your proposed effect). However, while I'm less pasty than Elmer's Glue, I'm still pretty white, so I'd ask some other people about that.


Not sure I like this effect. Depending on if corporations are added or not though, this'd be a good choice to add to the Great Merchant list.


Personally, I don't really like the idea of having Benjamin Franklin as a Great Person, especially the one who gives the Eureka for electricity. While Benjamin Franklin is a very famous and influential polymath, I feel his grand reputation has almost separated itself from his scientific endeavors and that he's more of a political influence and renaissance man in the public conscious. His "discovery of electricity" becomes more of a side note to illustrate that he's smart.

I would personally rather see someone like Faraday, whose name is inseparable from his studies concerning electricity, as providing the Eureka for electricity technology. However, I admit that Franklin is still a very important figure in the development of the study and application of electricity.

Thanks for your feedback. They were just at the top of my head. After researching, Faraday would probably be better. What would your effect of Eli Whitney and Sam Walton be?

 

[Kimiimaro]

Great Admiral: Edward Teach: Allows all naval units the chance to capture enemy ships.

This one is particularly good idea!

 

[Zaarin]

I believe Frida Kahlo's artwork won't be in the public domain until at least 2024. And Tolkien's works won't be public domain until 2044.

There is already one quote from Lord of the Rings in game, though ("Not all who wander are lost."). This has me thinking that, for authors at least, you might get some mileage out of Fair Use, and perhaps for musicians as well.