Underwater cites àla "Call to Power"?

mcookie83 said:
I also asked primem0ver where to find the full Generic Era Mod.
Click to expand...

If he responds please invite his input, and supervision.
If he has no time, maybe we could inspire a thought or two from him.
I'm all about encouraging dream teams.
You never know what else we could come up with together :)
 
Ill probably be giving senseless input on this, but maybe it may be of use. I do not know if all of the genetic era was brought into the Visa mod or not, but there was something there. I am not digging around at the moment too much school stuff, but WOC was trying to incorporate the water cities more or less. I played around trying to make the cities appear underwater instead of just sitting on the water, and really never managed to make it look right.


So...and this is a big so. If that darn camp was fully functional that I was fooling with in the RoH mod, I thought that it could go beyond just a prehistorical moving city. If you have a unit..you can adjust where they sit vertically. You can substitute in the art and have it anywhere then vertically. So anyway 2 ideas I had in mind was using it for art for underwater, and perhaps flying cities in the future. But all of that was a big if it works. Anyway laugh at me now.

Of course having rails and roads connecting to units would not work. At least not that I am aware of. I will better my brain in shame now.
 
 
Hi,

Yes the images are nice. It does inspire, but I want to explain what I mean with displaying them. It is not really an issue of mechanics just artistic appeal issue.

s4sc0.jpg


You see the G-era only made domes over the cities. The water level is set in the xml, and the cities can not go below that water level.

It is possible to remove the water level and see a sea floor, but then all water based units look odd.

Another note, the final frontier routes look awesome for new routes in the sea. We did do that in the WoC, but they have to changed slightly. It was just a XML change not hard.

I just never could get a city to actually sit under the water line, but of course units like a submarine can go underwater. Anyway it is not a game mechanic's issue to stop sea cities from be used. It just did not appeal to me artwise. Maybe above and below would even look better.
 
Hydromancerx said:
Well if you had an underwater map and then made the submarines "fly" then it would look as though they were floating underwater. I could also see some "walking" units at the bottom of the sea that could be used much like land units. Sort of like deep sea rovers or something.
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I think that it would be easier and better to use the same map for land and underwater for two reasons. The first is that the Genetic Era mod already has the code for that, albeit in Warlords format. That is a huge leg up. The second reason is gameplay. I think the water and land cities should be completely seamless in their transition. Using a separate map for that would make it less so. If the graphics are really that much a bother, we could just refluff them as floating cities. I personally think the graphics are very nice though.

Were you able to get the version linked to by mcookie83 to run?

Edit: Didn't Afforess make an undersea tunnel route during AND? How did that work?
 
ls612 said:
I think that it would be easier and better to use the same map for land and underwater for two reasons. The first is that the Genetic Era mod already has the code for that, albeit in Warlords format. That is a huge leg up. The second reason is gameplay. I think the water and land cities should be completely seamless in their transition. Using a separate map for that would make it less so. If the graphics are really that much a bother, we could just refluff them as floating cities. I personally think the graphics are very nice though.

Were you able to get the version linked to by mcookie83 to run?

Edit: Didn't Afforess make an undersea tunnel route during AND? How did that work?
Click to expand...

Tunnels are a problem because you can land your units on them in mid ocean and attack from the tunnels. The game considers them to be on the surface of the water not below it. To make it work on the same map we would probably need a new domain but I have no idea how you would do that.
 
Dancing Hoskuld said:
Tunnels are a problem because you can land your units on them in mid ocean and attack from the tunnels. The game considers them to be on the surface of the water not below it. To make it work on the same map we would probably need a new domain but I have no idea how you would do that.
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Well not necessarily a new domain but simply a check in the DLL that if the tunnel is in an ocean square then the land unit can't land.
 
I think you should keep the "Submerged Town" improvement on the "surface" map, while underwater cities can be on the underwater map. Note that besides methane, oil, natural gas and geothermal vents we could have say deep sea seafood such as crabs. These would work more like say a cow farm in that it would be on the "land" of the bottom of the sea. Work Boats and Modern Work Boats could not do it but I think by the time you can make underwater cites you can build the Construction Ship. It already looks almost like a submarine so we could just have it be the only "worker" like unit that can do stuff underwater.

Also sicne its underwater we could have terrain too such as sea mounts, brine pools, underwater volcanoes, even sunken ships.
 
Civ Fuehrer said:
Well not necessarily a new domain but simply a check in the DLL that if the tunnel is in an ocean square then the land unit can't land.
Click to expand...

Movement isn't the main problem, it's more attacks. Suppose a land unit is in an ocean tile in a tunnel (validly). Now suppose a ship is adjacent to that tile. The ship should not be able to attack, but it's entirely valid for the ship to attack into that tile, just that only ships should be valid targets, so rather than a clean canAttackIntoTile which all the curent code relies on, you have to process a conditon of can-attack-some-units-in tile (and have to include land units on transports in effect, but not those in tunnels). Since the enemy can ALSO have a ship on the same tile it is not sufficient to just prevent the attack - it has to only target some stacks.
 
Koshling said:
Movement isn't the main problem, it's more attacks. Suppose a land unit is in an ocean tile in a tunnel (validly). Now suppose a ship is adjacent to that tile. The ship should not be able to attack, but it's entirely valid for the ship to attack into that tile, just that only ships should be valid targets, so rather than a clean canAttackIntoTile which all the curent code relies on, you have to process a conditon of can-attack-some-units-in tile (and have to include land units on transports in effect, but not those in tunnels). Since the enemy can ALSO have a ship on the same tile it is not sufficient to just prevent the attack - it has to only target some stacks.
Click to expand...
How does it currently deal with a plot consisting of invisible and not invisible units?
 
The Full WoC 3.19 stuff that never got completed had the routes working. This SDK would be with it with it. Just need to search around for it. I don't remember what Faichele exactly did.

I hope this is the link not sure.
http://worldofciv.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/worldofciv/World of Civilization 3.19.tar.gz?view=tar

The routes for display purposes had something in the xml that could tell the routes to be on the water or under the water. It did not mean anything in game mechanics just visually where they looked vertically.

I hope that helps. There should be modules folders in there I think one for sea cities and one for g-era. Anyway if you look in the g-era revival thread I posted the links to primeover at the time he was thinking of bringing it back.
 
I really think that it would be a bad idea to add a new map simply for the underwater/underground areas. That would cut in to performance more than just using the default earth map would.

I did some looking around, and it seems that domains are controllable in the DLL. Could we not make a new domain, say Seafloor, and say that those could not be attacked by ships unless certain requirements are met?

About undersea tunnels, It is already possible for invisible units to move around more or less at will, ditto with spies. That code might be adaptable to make units in a tunnel work properly. This would mean a lot of SDK work though, although I think the gameplay benefits would be worth it.
 
ls612 said:
I really think that it would be a bad idea to add a new map simply for the underwater/underground areas. That would cut in to performance more than just using the default earth map would.

I did some looking around, and it seems that domains are controllable in the DLL. Could we not make a new domain, say Seafloor, and say that those could not be attacked by ships unless certain requirements are met?

About undersea tunnels, It is already possible for invisible units to move around more or less at will, ditto with spies. That code might be adaptable to make units in a tunnel work properly. This would mean a lot of SDK work though, although I think the gameplay benefits would be worth it.
Click to expand...

I do think that a separate map for underwatercities does not fit that well too. What about this? I think it's made for Warlords (also by primeover), but I thought it could help.

The best way, I think, is having underwater/underground cities on earth/other planets on the same map.
 
mcookie83 said:
I do think that a separate map for underwatercities does not fit that well too. What about this? I think it's made for Warlords (also by primeover), but I thought it could help.

The best way, I think, is having underwater/underground cities on earth/other planets on the same map.
Click to expand...

I think multiple maps for the other planets are a good idea, because they simulate the distance between the worlds, and the separation being on mars has on resources and units etc. Being underwater is different, as you are still on the same planet, and could have naval units on the 'normal' map only a few miles above you.
 
A few issues I don't see covered. Sinkholes from improper mining. The issue is this is not going to let city get nuked by nature... which is already vetoed by the modders. Though that would be an intresting optional mode that won't happen.

Catacombs now have to be detailed in so that 10% chance makes sense.

Underwater cities will have to deal with that contiental shelf thing, which makes them far let useful than you seem to think.

I thought that the reason you could attack those in underwater tunnels is that they actually haveislands/skyscrapers to the surface so you don't have everyone die whenever a fan turns off... like 17 mile long one in the Chesapeak (sp?) Bay? Having the only air source be on both ends is a logistic nightmare and a deeply questionable idea. Seriously, anytime you have to crawl over a traffic jam so you can due any mantience the workers should go postal while sufficating.

Have fun making above ground and below the surface culture maps.
 
Necratoid said:
A few issues I don't see covered. Sinkholes from improper mining. The issue is this is not going to let city get nuked by nature... which is already vetoed by the modders. Though that would be an intresting optional mode that won't happen.

Catacombs now have to be detailed in so that 10% chance makes sense.

Underwater cities will have to deal with that contiental shelf thing, which makes them far let useful than you seem to think.

I thought that the reason you could attack those in underwater tunnels is that they actually haveislands/skyscrapers to the surface so you don't have everyone die whenever a fan turns off... like 17 mile long one in the Chesapeak (sp?) Bay? Having the only air source be on both ends is a logistic nightmare and a deeply questionable idea. Seriously, anytime you have to crawl over a traffic jam so you can due any mantience the workers should go postal while sufficating.

Have fun making above ground and below the surface culture maps.
Click to expand...

I still can't see a tank or horse get in through those vents, nor elephants or mammoths. ;)
 
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