Underwater Cities Development

[rightfuture]

Thought this was cool enough to post.

Gorgeous Concept Designs for Underwater Cities
http://io9.com/gorgeous-concept-designs-for-underwater-cities-492111757

and this

 

[Azurian]

What is the progress for underwater cities, do we have the ability to do it?

The Tech Abyss Colonolization in Late Transhuman is basically colonizing the very bottom (abyss zone) of the ocean.

 

[Koshling]

What is the progress for underwater cities, do we have the ability to do it?

The Tech Abyss Colonolization in Late Transhuman is basically colonizing the very bottom (abyss zone) of the ocean.

None, and no currently.

 

[GiuseppeIII]

Could we at least make water cities. When a settler goes onto water after researching the appropriate tech they could activate a water city. And why can't we do underwater cities, would it require multi maps?

 

[Koshling]

Could we at least make water cities. When a settler goes onto water after researching the appropriate tech they could activate a water city. And why can't we do underwater cities, would it require multi maps?

It causes problems with units on the plot - is it considered land or sea? Can boats pass over it without noticing it's there? (if they don't have the appropriate tech). If it's considered to be creating an island (so a sea city, but NOT an underwater one) AND it does NOT connect two land masses (i.e. - it must be in ocean not on a coastal tile), then we could do it without too much difficulty. HOWEVER, getting the AI to use them or to attack them would require a LOT more work.

 

[strategyonly]

It causes problems with units on the plot - is it considered land or sea? Can boats pass over it without noticing it's there? (if they don't have the appropriate tech). If it's considered to be creating an island (so a sea city, but NOT an underwater one) AND it does NOT connect two land masses (i.e. - it must be in ocean not on a coastal tile), then we could do it without too much difficulty. HOWEVER, getting the AI to use them or to attack them would require a LOT more work.

I wonder if it would be like FfH had with Water Walking??

Spoiler :

        <PromotionInfo>
            <Type>PROMOTION_WATER_WALKING</Type>
            <Description>TXT_KEY_PROMOTION_WATER_WALKING</Description>
            <Sound>AS2D_IF_LEVELUP</Sound>
            <TechPrereq>TECH_NEVER</TechPrereq>
            <bAmphib>1</bAmphib>
            <bRiver>1</bRiver>
            <Button>Art/Interface/Buttons/Promotions/Waterwalking.dds</Button>
            [B]<bWaterWalking>1</bWaterWalking>[/B]
            <iAIWeight>100</iAIWeight>
            <iMinLevel>-1</iMinLevel>
        </PromotionInfo>

 

[Civ4newbie]

are you people saying there is a possibility that there will be no sea cities? I hope that is wrong. if there is sea cities then really I don't mind if they are going to be exactly like sea cities in the genetic era mod that represent underwater cities, I don't like the floating sea cities idea but if those are the only kind of water cities that are going to be in c2c then I guess they will have to do.

 

[Koshling]

are you people saying there is a possibility that there will be no sea cities? I hope that is wrong. if there is sea cities then really I don't mind if they are going to be exactly like sea cities in the genetic era mod that represent underwater cities, I don't like the floating sea cities idea but if those are the only kind of water cities that are going to be in c2c then I guess they will have to do.

No, it just means they won;t happen until we get around o making DLL changes to address the issues they cause. Not never, just not real soon.

 

[Athmos]

It causes problems with units on the plot - is it considered land or sea? Can boats pass over it without noticing it's there? (if they don't have the appropriate tech). If it's considered to be creating an island (so a sea city, but NOT an underwater one) AND it does NOT connect two land masses (i.e. - it must be in ocean not on a coastal tile), then we could do it without too much difficulty. HOWEVER, getting the AI to use them or to attack them would require a LOT more work.

How is it done in the Planetfall mod ? It is very fun to play with in that mod.

 

[Hydromancerx]

So I was looking through both the Genetic Era Mod and Planetfall mods and they have a special sea settler type unit that makes cities. When looking through the code on the unit it has some sort of custom AI for sea settlers. As far as I can tell they may use different code than each other. I wish primem0ver was here to help explain it.

I have not seen it in game for the Genetic Era Mod since its for warlords, but for Planetfall I have and from what I have seen it has like the city on a platform. This explains how they got around the land/sea layer problem because its at the same Z axis level as land cities. However from a realistic point of view these cities would be more like oil rigs and not like underwater cities.


(A Sea City from Planetfall mod)

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

The basic problem is not with the graphics for underwater cities but with how said cities (and routes) interact with units on the surface of the ocean. Cavalry on a transport at the surface of the water can attack an underwater city or disembark onto a tunnel for example.

 

[Faustmouse]

The basic problem is not with the graphics for underwater cities but with how said cities (and routes) interact with units on the surface of the ocean. Cavalry on a transport at the surface of the water can attack an underwater city or disembark onto a tunnel for example.

As for the graphics problem, you could simply not display the whole underwarter part of the city. The only thing that would be visible are some pipes and maybe the upper part of an elevator.

 

[Hydromancerx]

The basic problem is not with the graphics for underwater cities but with how said cities (and routes) interact with units on the surface of the ocean. Cavalry on a transport at the surface of the water can attack an underwater city or disembark onto a tunnel for example.

Well the example above is not really an "Underwater" city but a "Surface" or "Floating" or "Stilt" city. I would think such a city could make sense since it would not need special treatment and work more or less as an artificial island. And it would make sense for units from transports to attack the city.

As for routes. That's a whole other issue. We would either need to solve that problem or just have no tunnels.

But what about bridges? One would assume that both land and sea units could attack each other on bridges. Or the fact they are interacting with each other messes up stuff?

 

[Athmos]

The basic problem is not with the graphics for underwater cities but with how said cities (and routes) interact with units on the surface of the ocean. Cavalry on a transport at the surface of the water can attack an underwater city or disembark onto a tunnel for example.

That is the way it work in planetfall. I don't see why it would be a problem. The "land" unit are attacking through the floating platform above the city. You just need to acknowledge that sea cities will have to have some ways to exchange with the atmosphere, people, resources, air, C02, probably use of waves and solar energy, etc... the platform above the surface is where the attackers will strike.

Are sea cities not in the game yet ? I thought they were... (I'm only in my first game, reaching the industrial era)

 

[Hydromancerx]

Are sea cities not in the game yet ? I thought they were... (I'm only in my first game, reaching the industrial era)

We have Submerged Towns which are like Cottages for the sea, but not actual cities in the ocean/coast.

 

[Athmos]

Well, reading back some of the thread I realise that the way it's done in Planetfall might not be entirely satisfying to the whole C2C team, as they are not FULLY underwater cities (with no communication with the surface), but they work very well in the game. There are no tunnels or road equivalent underwater in Planetfall.

Maybe a similar implementation could be achieved in C2C ? Such cities could be understood as either floating cities, stilt cities, or underwater cities with a platform overhead. Maybe they could be one type of sea cities, and later on maybe there could be fully underwater cities with additional features, as some were mentioning before (can only be accessed by submarine).

I'll have to add that stealth city (saw that mentioned previously) don't make much sense to me. Hiding millions of people isn't exactly easy... Stealth as in "hard to target" could be sensible (could probably be implemented as defence buildings), but stealth as in "didn't notice it was there" sounds pretty much absurd to me.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

If there is no need of the tunnels then I have no problems. It was the disembarking of units into the tunnels that was the problem for me.

 

[Pepo]

These are my ideas for water cities and some mechanics:
-stilts are the earlier unlocked.work like an artificial island.it doesn't have big advantages compare to other water cities.they can be connected to land with brigdes (i was thinking on fort mechanics-water units can enter then an create passes)ships can pillage then to kill an invading force.i don't think is hard to implend this idea except for coding ia
-flotating cities can be placed on oceans.they are also needed for underwater cities(explain later)the city works like a normal city only that in the ocean.i think that ships should be allow to attack and capture then.they also have some differences from normal cities:they gain a minor culture bonus(due to being in the middle of the sea is more attractive from a tourism point of view) but also a minor unhappines bonus(due relative isolation).they can be connected througth underwater tunnels to land.
I don't think is too hard to implent
Under water cities and tunnels:i have think some new mechanics for tunnels and underwater cities.tunnels now go underwater in a parallel map and can't be pillage by ships.this make unit movement easier and not dangerous(and even realistic).units can either go to underwater cities througth then or go up to flotating cities.this tunnels can be started in coast cities or flotating cities and are build by sumergible workers(new unit)underwater cities are buid by an special settler that can only be build at flotating cities.this settlers are slower than normal ones and can only move five titles in total before settling down.once an empire has created enougth tunnels,this units will be useless.underwater cities gain a major bonus on culture but also a major unhappines (i thinking on rapture)attacking underwater cities is difficult ,depending on the tunnels.there is also a need for new units for underwater warfare (submergoble and underwater transport)to make siege easier.underwater cities can't be place under flotating cities.other nations are unable to see then from surface,so they would make perfect hidden bases to place in alien planets

 

[Daedwartin]

So I was looking through both the Genetic Era Mod and Planetfall mods and they have a special sea settler type unit that makes cities. When looking through the code on the unit it has some sort of custom AI for sea settlers. As far as I can tell they may use different code than each other. I wish primem0ver was here to help explain it.

I have not seen it in game for the Genetic Era Mod since its for warlords, but for Planetfall I have and from what I have seen it has like the city on a platform. This explains how they got around the land/sea layer problem because its at the same Z axis level as land cities. However from a realistic point of view these cities would be more like oil rigs and not like underwater cities.


(A Sea City from Planetfall mod)

that city is likely not far off from being one, as it's Morgan Industries.

yeah, it's way of doing it doesnt seem to be what this mod wants.

but if all else fails, its is a route we can take.

 

[Athmos]

Well, in Planetfall sea cities are a very interesting feature, really adds to the gameplay and i must say i was a bit disapointed not to be able to build any in a game as huge as C2C (I thought I would be able to build water cities in a game with such advanced sci-fi concepts)...

I would love to have simillar city implemented in the game, even if fully underwater cities were to come only at a later stage of developement. It is certainly much better than nothing in my opinion. Then again, I am not skilled in modding, and I am allready having a blast with C2C anyway (Thanks a lot for everyone who made this mod !), but I guess I felt like giving my opinion about this...