Unexpected city names

[c4c6]

Depends usually on the used operating system etc. You can try that:

Hold down the ALT-key and then type the character code. Then release the ALT-key.
ALT+0228 = ä
ALT+0246 = ö
ALT+0252 = ü
ALT+0223 = ß
ALT+0196 = Ä
ALT+0214 = Ö
ALT+0220 = Ü

As one has to remember the codes, for seldom usage it is probably the simplest solution to just have a tiny file with all the wanted characters (eg. french, scandinavian too ...) and then just select the needed and move it by copy & paste (ctrl-c/ctrl-v).

 

[nzcamel]

Shift + " + the letter you want to use. äëïöüÿ.

Depends usually on the used operating system etc. You can try that:

Hold down the ALT-key and then type the character code. Then release the ALT-key.
ALT+0228 = ä
ALT+0246 = ö
ALT+0252 = ü
ALT+0223 = ß
ALT+0196 = Ä
ALT+0214 = Ö
ALT+0220 = Ü

As one has to remember the codes, for seldom usage it is probably the simplest solution to just have a tiny file with all the wanted characters (eg. french, scandinavian too ...) and then just select the needed and move it by copy & paste (ctrl-c/ctrl-v).

Thanks Guys

"ß" is an especially good one to know.

 

[c4c6]

"ß" is an especially good one to know.

Indeed, as in Gießen, Großbottwar, Lößnitz, Meißen, Meßkirch, Roßleben, Staßfurt, Süßen, Unterschleißheim, Weißenfels, Weißensee, Weißenthurm ...

[Straßburg is cognate to "street" and "borough" (French: Strasbourg) is now the official seat of the European Parliament and other European institutions, such as the Council of Europe and the Eurocorps etc.]

 

[soundwaveuk]

Can they be added from your everyday English QWERTY keyboard...? I mean the dots?

The dots are called an "umlaut". It's pronounced something like oom-lowt.

You don't have to use an umlaut, and can instead just write the letter plus an e. Example, ä can become ae, and this is perfectly acceptable. This also gives a hint as to the pronunciation of the word - example, eisbär/eisbaer = polar bear!

Also, ß is known as an eszett, and can instead be written simply as "ss".

I much prefer to use ß and umlauts though because it just looks way cooler.

 

[Leyrann]

The dots are called an "umlaut". It's pronounced something like oom-lowt.

You don't have to use an umlaut, and can instead just write the letter plus an e. Example, ä can become ae, and this is perfectly acceptable. This also gives a hint as to the pronunciation of the word - example, eisbär/eisbaer = polar bear!

Also, ß is known as an eszett, and can instead be written simply as "ss".

I much prefer to use ß and umlauts though because it just looks way cooler.

Imo using an e instead of an umlaut looks really, really bad.

 

[Siptah]

Imo using an e instead of an umlaut looks really, really bad.

Depends what you are used to. In Switzerland we didn't use capital umlaut letters until a few decades ago and always used Ae, Oe or Ue instead. And we don't use ß either, we always use ss, which of course changes the fact that pronunciation is easy and completely regular in German. You get used to it.

 

[God of Kings]

For Mac, to type ä ë ï ö ü, it's Opt + u, then lift fingers, then type the desired letter.

 

[unpossible251]

theres a city in (real) Australia called Ballarat, but the spelling in civ is way off. Anyone know why that might be? i assume its a typo but there might be a story there.

hey, you know what might be a nice addition? if after you conquered a city, you keep the name, more or less, but the city gets a prefix of some sort. so if spain starts rolling over china, you get "los beijing" and "los nanjing", and so on. france attacks india, and takes over "nuveau delhi", england takes "new moscow" over Russia... and so on.

 

[Leyrann]

theres a city in (real) Australia called Ballarat, but the spelling in civ is way off. Anyone know why that might be? i assume its a typo but there might be a story there.

hey, you know what might be a nice addition? if after you conquered a city, you keep the name, more or less, but the city gets a prefix of some sort. so if spain starts rolling over china, you get "los beijing" and "los nanjing", and so on. france attacks india, and takes over "nuveau delhi", england takes "new moscow" over Russia... and so on.

But what sense would nouveau/new/whatever make? Typically it was used when colonists founded a new city: Dutch colonists from Amsterdam founded New Amsterdam, French colonists from Orleans founded New Orleans, etc.

 

[c4c6]

If you translate Eis-bär with "ice bear" it sounds quite similar ... the best result you receive of course, if you pronounce it quickly as in "Icebear".

You don't have to use an umlaut, and can instead just write the letter plus an e [...] and this is perfectly acceptable. Also, ß is known as an eszett, and can instead be written simply as "ss".

Yes, kind of. But a, e, i, o, u, ä, ö, ü are base vowels (without any movement in the mouth) and ai, ei, au, eu etc. are compound vowels (with movement in the mouth, like sliding on the string of a guitar) ... so ae, oe, ue pretends something what isn't really there. On the other hand: what can you do on an old mechanical (English) typewriter?!

So I'd say "süß" (meaning sweet) tastes like sugar - and "suess" tastes like artificial sweetener.

[And then the English colonists renamed Neu-Amsterdam / Nieuw Amsterdam in New York.]

 

[Superhai]

hey, you know what might be a nice addition? if after you conquered a city, you keep the name, more or less, but the city gets a prefix of some sort. so if spain starts rolling over china, you get "los beijing" and "los nanjing", and so on. france attacks india, and takes over "nuveau delhi", england takes "new moscow" over Russia... and so on.

Historically when other countries occupies cities, they tend to either rename them entirely (very often in honor of some king, relation or other fame), keep the current name (but adapt it to their own language), or use the name they themselves have used historically. To be honest "Los Beijing" sounds silly, it would be like if the British acquired Beijing, but called it "The Beijing". More naturally would be that it would be named "San Felipe" "Villa Felipe"; "Pekin" "Pequin"; or "La Capital del Norte" or something like that.

 

[soundwaveuk]

Yes, kind of. But a, e, i, o, u, ä, ö, ü are base vowels (without any movement in the mouth) and ai, ei, au, eu etc. are compound vowels (with movement in the mouth, like sliding on the string of a guitar) ... so ae, oe, ue pretends something what isn't really there. On the other hand: what can you do on an old mechanical (English) typewriter?!

So I'd say "süß" (meaning sweet) tastes like sugar - and "suess" tastes like artificial sweetener.

Ah that's interesting. I'll bear that in mind as I advance in learning the language. I only have a basic grasp at the moment.

As an aside - I chose Eisbär because it's one of the words I really like the sound of . Also, I find Köln a really difficult word to say for some reason. Don't know why.

 

[Superhai]

So I'd say "süß" (meaning sweet) tastes like sugar - and "suess" tastes like artificial sweetener.

The question would not be how it may sound to a German-speaker, but how a city name should be localized in a game when the localization language is English. How are umlauts in English orthography? Some larger and famous place names are assimilated, like Munich and Brussels. Some are not. Some names have long history in older English and French, like Aachen which would be Aix-la-Chapelle.

 

[Siptah]

The question would not be how it may sound to a German-speaker, but how a city name should be localized in a game when the localization language is English. How are umlauts in English orthography? Some larger and famous place names are assimilated, like Munich and Brussels. Some are not. Some names have long history in older English and French, like Aachen which would be Aix-la-Chapelle.

My wish would be to keep it in the local language. Cities of the German civ in German, of the French civ in French etc. City names in Chinese, Arabic etc. use the official transliteration if possible.

 

[God of Kings]

Not just that, but Rome would be called Roma in all languages.

 

[Guandao]

I'm very dissatisfied with the Chinese city-list. It's too focused on the Qin Dynasty, hence a lack of cities in the southern parts of China (except for Guangzhou). Plus some of the available city names weren't actual cities. Who did they hired to come up with this list? I feel like Southern China is being ignored once again

I dislike Artaxata and Artashat as names in the Roman and Persian lists. It robs a city name from a potential Armenian civ.
I'm pretty critical of Persia's list, as its focused on the Achaemenid empire. Where are Ctesiphon, Gondeshapur, Tabriz, Mashhad, Shiraz? And I don't think Sparda (aka Sardis) and Gordian (aka Gordium) should be founded that early. I feel like it and China's list should incorporate historically important cities from all of their history.
Teotihuacan is once again an Aztec city . I'm waiting for Tiwanaku to show up in the Inca city list, and Tiflis/Hsia/Sanchu in the Mongol list.

 

[c4c6]

The question would not be how it may sound to a German-speaker, but how a city name should be localized in a game when the localization language is English.

I'd say the English speaking players are those, who can decide best how foreign names should be localized when the localization language is English.

My wish for the game _I play_ would be to keep it all in the local languages (eg. Fernão de Magalhães) or an appropriate representation. (eg. Hànyǔ Pīnyīn, the official romanization system for Standard Chinese) Ie. BĕiJīng, GuăngZhōu, ShàngHăi etc.
(The Civilopedia is a famous place for explaining names of local assimilation - eg. Ferdinand Magellan)

[Btw, it felt strange to see in older CIV versions the localization into German texts surrounding names from the "German city list": Nuremberg / Cologne / Munich instead of Nürnberg / Köln / München ...]

 

[Superhai]

My wish would be to keep it in the local language. Cities of the German civ in German, of the French civ in French etc. City names in Chinese, Arabic etc. use the official transliteration if possible.

Yes that is all well and good. I imagine you don't mean the German cities in (oral) "German", but rather how it is written in "Hochdeutsch". Civilization is mostly a game where you read the name, and don't need to pronounce them so it may not matter much.

The issue will be that most English-speakers will treat Köln the same as Koln, which is why the English orthography would be better off with Koeln, even tough it still would be weird. It is also good that we don't have a Swiss civilization, but the city state of Zurich has four official written names on the national level; "Zürich", "Zurich", "Zurigo", and "Turitg". However on city level, the German variant is the common.

Greek has not one official Greek->English transliteration convention, but there are several. Arabic do have the same problem. Chinese is mostly fine as they (at least for the Han-Chinese) have implemented their official transliteration, but for anything in the western part of the country you are stepping deep into contested waters. India would be a mess you really do not want to get into, but they are usually quite satisfied with the names the English gave, unless you are a hindu-nationalist.

 

[nzcamel]

Imo using an e instead of an umlaut looks really, really bad.

The question would not be how it may sound to a German-speaker, but how a city name should be localized in a game when the localization language is English. How are umlauts in English orthography? Some larger and famous place names are assimilated, like Munich and Brussels. Some are not. Some names have long history in older English and French, like Aachen which would be Aix-la-Chapelle.

As someone who's German extends pretty much to "Ich spreche kein Deutsch" for me, I am less concerned with correct spelling in the original languages; and more interested in getting the pronunciation correct.

Don't get me wrong, I'm very grateful to those of you who have pointed out how to add the umlaut etc on an English keyboard. I will get around to using them eventually.
In terms of combining better immersion with game play; I think individuals will respond based on where they are at in terms of understanding any foreign language.

 

[Siptah]

Yes that is all well and good. I imagine you don't mean the German cities in (oral) "German", but rather how it is written in "Hochdeutsch". Civilization is mostly a game where you read the name, and don't need to pronounce them so it may not matter much.

The issue will be that most English-speakers will treat Köln the same as Koln, which is why the English orthography would be better off with Koeln, even tough it still would be weird. It is also good that we don't have a Swiss civilization, but the city state of Zurich has four official written names on the national level; "Zürich", "Zurich", "Zurigo", and "Turitg". However on city level, the German variant is the common.

Greek has not one official Greek->English transliteration convention, but there are several. Arabic do have the same problem. Chinese is mostly fine as they (at least for the Han-Chinese) have implemented their official transliteration, but for anything in the western part of the country you are stepping deep into contested waters. India would be a mess you really do not want to get into, but they are usually quite satisfied with the names the English gave, unless you are a hindu-nationalist.

It's one if the drawbacks of English being the globalized language that the anglo-saxon countries never even try to pronounce anything non-english halfway correctly. So it doesn't help to go for pronounciation imho, because English speakers will pronounce cities like Paris or Berlin incorrect - that's why I think orthography would be a better way. Not that it would ever happen.
Where at least one transliteration exists, it is possible. And swiss cities are no problem, we may have 4 national languages, but only a few really bilingual cities exist: Biel/Bienne, Freiburg/Fribourg and Sitten/Sion come to my mind. All others could be referred to in the local language.