UNGY-03 The Gods of the Aztec

[Rusten]

Don't know whether we're going to give up, but I decided to give the game a little run for myself up until 800-900 AD from ungy's 300 AD save as the current situation saddens me. I needed to bring the Aztec civ out of this hole, at least for myself if not for the SG.

Let's just say that things are going much better. I don't think we should use my save, but I might upload it and make a short summary if you want to see how we should've done things--it might be educational.

 

[silverbullet]

I would definitely like to see your save, but more specifically, can you point the main mistakes we have made?

 

[Rusten]

Basically just being too slow. When I go to war on immortal and deity my power graph is usually still lower than that of my opponent when I declare. This game our graph was higher than our opponent so splitting the attack forces into 2 shouldn't be a problem at all with some smart play.

Too much whipping. I wouldn't think I'd see myself type this to someone, but a city like Tlatelolco really shouldn't get brought down all the way to size 2--it has so many great tiles that one should work! There is such a thing as too big of an army--you usually don't want more than you need for the task at hand.

Spoiler :

To be able to compare the games I decided to declare war the same turn as we did in our SG, so no difference there. I made less units (still way more than SB had though) and attacked Chaco Canyon and Mound City at the same time. I went for the same trading plan and self-researched CS.

In my game the AP is Hindu, but I had more than 5 spare happy faces in most of my cities and the possibility to move units there so it wouldn't have mattered if I faced the vote.

I played to 900 AD and just completed the UoS (1 turn) in Tenochtitlan to boost research the coming turns, I have a lot of monasteries and temples already. I took Poverty Point to make sure I had stone--will probably give it back to SB in some turns (or right away).

Zara got liberalism 840 AD or something and has Boudica as a vassal while QSH is getting Economics--their research is impressive.

Currently ahead of everyone except for Zara and QSH in research (Boudica doesn't count--got gifted everything).


Traded for machinery, feudalism, engineering, theology and metal casting.

 

[mystyfly]

I'd also like to see that save.

I think overall, we were in a tough position from the start, surrounded by QSH and SB, two protective civs. Also the buddhist world made the techspeed faster and thus the window of opportunity for a certain unit narrower. I'd like to see with what solution you came up, Rusten.

 

[Atropos]

Wow, that's certainly an impressive save. I guess that the biggest mistake was that I whipped too many units when I should have been working on infrastructure, and should have split forces to attack SB's capital and Mound City at the same time. Also, I should have defied the AP. Is that correct?

If you guys are willing to have me for the rematch, I would like to have the opportunity to correct my mistakes.

 

[Rusten]

This game is getting pretty painful so I wouldn't oppose to either re-roll or start another with a different variant. I prefer something else as this game has been going on for a while as it is.

It was still very winnable at 300 AD as you can see from my alternate save, but now it's looking much worse.

I don't fancy another theme game with tons of rules.

Same here. I had a good grip on the rules when we started, but the game went on pretty slowly so I forgot about the rules all the time eventually.

 

[mystyfly]

I prefer another game. Any ideas? I don't fancy another theme game with tons of rules. Probabely a not-so-much restricted game on deity?

 

[pigswill]

Lurking

Its worth checking out Sisiutil's previous ALC game (on Immortal). He was at war with Monte and defied the AP 3 or 4 times and still won that game.

If there's a space on the roster for the next game I'd like to be considered even though I still haven't won solo immortal (and haven't played civ for the last month (I tend to give civved out from time to time)).

 

[mystyfly]

Its worth checking out Sisiutil's previous ALC game (on Immortal). He was at war with Monte and defied the AP 3 or 4 times and still won that game.

I think it was 5 times

ungy? are you there?

 

[silverbullet]

I also prefer to start a new game with less rules.

 

[Rusten]

I don't mind a big restriction/variant as long as the rules are simple. Not too excited about an unrestricted or similar deity game but whatever the majority decides I'll follow, I'll have fun either way.

RE: AP
- you should always defy even if you think it will get voted down. If the vote doesn't have enough votes it will be as if you voted no and you won't suffer the consequences from defying. At least that's how it works with the UN IIRC--dunno about the AP but I have a hard time seeing them making it differ regarding voting.

 

[silverbullet]

RE: AP
- you should always defy even if you think it will get voted down. If the vote doesn't have enough votes it will be as if you voted no and you won't suffer the consequences from defying. At least that's how it works with the UN IIRC--dunno about the AP but I have a hard time seeing them making it differ regarding voting.

Yes, it's the same for AP. If you defy the resolution fails. If the vote had enough yes votes to pass, you suffer penalties, otherwise, no penalties.

 

[ungy]

I'm around--just been away a bit and needed to catch up a bit.

I'm happy to try another--although when I get the chance I may try and play the 300AD save to get some pointers out of Rusten's game.

I think we had a difficult start, and we needed to play a tighter game than we did.

As for a variant--what do you guys think of no GP? Problem is that takes away a pretty interesting piece of the game but I'm a little curious how it would work.

 

[mystyfly]

No GP = no Caste =
= no academy
= no bulbing
= no catchup after crushed eco
= (nearly) no corps? (GPs from techs are banned, too?)
= no shrines
= no trade missions for mass upgrading

Sounds cool I'd really like to try that. I agree, GPs are a very interesting part of the game, but OTOH, struggling to keep up without them is hard too. We've got to go space me thinks

Another thing: Are specs banned too?

 

[pigswill]

No GPs also means no wonders (not even national). That could be challenging. It also means no golden ages.

 

[mystyfly]

If we're allowed to pop GPs but have to delete them, we can build wonders. A game with no GPs, nat and big wonders I think ungy meant we just can't use GPs to bulb, for GAs, etc.

May I suggest a financial civ? Probabely Wang?

 

[ungy]

If we're allowed to pop GPs but have to delete them, we can build wonders. A game with no GPs, nat and big wonders I think ungy meant we just can't use GPs to bulb, for GAs, etc.

May I suggest a financial civ? Probabely Wang?

I was thinking we couldn't keep any--we might get some from captured wonders--so we just have to delete any that come along. So nat wonders would be OK.
I'd definately think a financial civ--Mansa also comes to mind as I like playing spiritual civs in SG's (although spiritual w/o caste or pacifism may not be so good).
I'd say not Liz, Vic, Darius (too strong), HC (quecha=broken IMHO).
So that leaves Willem, Ragnar, Wang, Mansa, Hannibal--am I missing anyone?

Anyway don't really care which--I would put Willem and Hannibal as the strongest.

 

[Rusten]

Think you're missing Pacal which would get my vote, but spiritual is my favourite trait so Mansa is fine too.

I like the variant idea--consider me excited!

Another thing: Are specs banned too?

No real point running them if we don't get to use GPP.

 

[mystyfly]

I was thinking of specs for emergency-money (merchants), additional production when size 20+ (engineers) or in border cities (artists). Also we might find a spot with 3+ food resources where we need some way of stagnating growth...

I also love spiritual but dunno about MM... I'd have liked a game with wang for a change (never played him).

So are we starting?

 

[Rusten]

I'd like to veto Wang Kon (or at least only pick him if he's the clear 1st choice with everyone else). I really hate playing protective civs but it's not because it bothers me that it's a weak trait--I just can't stand the micro-management of whipping walls/castles with overflow and stone, it's so silly.