pigswill
fly (one day)
Haven't looked at the save recently (and I'm posting from work instead of working...). If we're going for calendar and paper how does that fit in with GS production for educ and lib?
UNGY5 Let's keep it simple!
- Thread starter ungy
- Start date
silverbullet
King
It should. We will probably detour for aesthetics drama after paper if we don't have the GS to bulb it yet. Ideally we will be able to trade for guilds/machinery and only need to self research banking before lib, but we might have to self research some more if the AIs aren't nice enough.
silverbullet
King
@Dirk: Just found DanF's original explanation regarding the 8 bordering tiles
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7190899&postcount=84
When you reach 8 bordering tiles with a civ you become a land target (LT). This means you are much more likely to become the chosen victim once they decided to go to war. It doesn't seem to have any effect on whether they make an initial decision to go to war.
As long as you are not a LT (but still on the same continent so not LH), you will only be considered in pass 3 of a TOTAL WAR victim search (and never for limited war or dogpile war).
The exact calculation is complicated, but it seems like a useful rule of thumb to avoid 8 bordering tiles when you want to minimize chances of early DoW.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=7190899&postcount=84
When you reach 8 bordering tiles with a civ you become a land target (LT). This means you are much more likely to become the chosen victim once they decided to go to war. It doesn't seem to have any effect on whether they make an initial decision to go to war.
As long as you are not a LT (but still on the same continent so not LH), you will only be considered in pass 3 of a TOTAL WAR victim search (and never for limited war or dogpile war).
The exact calculation is complicated, but it seems like a useful rule of thumb to avoid 8 bordering tiles when you want to minimize chances of early DoW.
Very useful information--thanks
Dirk1302
Deity
100AD - 275AD
100 AD
------
Trade feud for mc + 70
I generally put forges on in cities where i don't have a clear other build.
125 AD
------
whip a worker in Nicomededia
road some squares leaving prechopped forests for UOS later.
Take the barbarian city, no HE unlocked, it was too late to
get the wounded 9xp axe there. Too bad since one of my swords died
leaving the city an easy prey. I'm going to heal this axe now, then send it on
explorations hoping to meet another barb somewhere.
150 AD
------
whip worker in antioch which has 2 workers now
CS in.
Gift monarchy to izzy for 70 gold, not enough to boost relations.
We lose friendly with Ramses (not due to this gift), too bad.
switch to buro/caste/pacifism. One turn growth in Thes than specs.
175 AD
------
1 turn into Cal and now Wk will trade it. I had 2 options here
- get cal/aest for cs
- get cal/aest/construction for cs + 200
second option is just bad but i think about the first. Ultimately
i decide against it, it's only 3 turns to cal, i don't need it right now since
i need to road/chop the resources. aest'd be good too but we're in caste so we can run specs. It's not only the monopoly on CS, also wfyabta. Maybe not so important here since we'll probably get Wong and Ramses to friendly in the future.
Can also gift currency to izz for 90, would get her to cautious probably
(i really have to look up the formula for this). But currency also helps her a lot, she has 3 ob's. She's backward but also quite higg in score, i don't want to get her started techwise so decide against this too.
200 AD
-----
Assign 4 specs in thes working all the 3 foods but leaving all the 1/2 food tiles.Move some workers to towards the cal resources, some workers begin chain irrigation to the northern corn. Switch forge in Adrianople to research for 1 turn to get cal next turn. Izzy begins to research feud 8 turns, her research rate resembles ours. I think i'll gift it once she's 3-4 turns from finishing.
225 AD
------
Calender in
Izzy makes peace with Asoka and it seems she has exorted Feud. She also has currency now. Well maybe i should have gifted it to her. Leaves us with the problem that we can only gift CS and Phil to her atm and she's still annoyed....So what happened here,
I think she extorted feud from Asoka and since i researched Calender this turn she was willing to trade this tech to Wang now. If i'd have been really sharp i might have seen this coming and gifted currency prev turn.It's a lot of work though to foresee all possible tech trades and it's never sure if the ais will actually make a deal once it comes up.
There were now some options regarding Izz,
-Leave it as it is taking our chances, checking the diplo screen frequently
-gift her CS or Philo. We have a monopoly on CS, not on Philo anymore. Kong has it and he's pleased with Izzy.
-Trade CS + 40 to aest with Wang and go for drama next Kong is apparently researching CS, we could trade CS a rush to drama could also work, in this
I think going for the third option, trading for aest, is best , we need it anyway and it's our last chance to get it in trade for some time. So i trade CS + 40 to aest setting research to drama.
250 AD
------
Manipulate tiles and set everything to research + some specs so as to get drama next turn.Workers are busy with the calender resources.
275 AD
------
Drama in and exchange for 50 gold with Izz. She's cautious now and she doesn't like us enough to declare on anyone which is ok for now.She still has to be checked every turn but i think she'll have a go at one of the others now.
Switch forges to hippo's in the border cities. Despite no libraries/academy we have 183 bpt which is ok. Paper'll be in in 5 turns. We're well on our way with the calender resources.
This is a nice time to stop, there are some issues to be discussed,
-Capital's unhealthy with next grow, are we going to run scientists there?
-Do we go paper now (guess so)
-Are we save enough regarding Izz
If you're lookin' for our 9xp axe, it's wandering through izzy's land looking for barb spots in the north.
100 AD
------
Trade feud for mc + 70
I generally put forges on in cities where i don't have a clear other build.
125 AD
------
whip a worker in Nicomededia
road some squares leaving prechopped forests for UOS later.
Take the barbarian city, no HE unlocked, it was too late to
get the wounded 9xp axe there. Too bad since one of my swords died
leaving the city an easy prey. I'm going to heal this axe now, then send it on
explorations hoping to meet another barb somewhere.
150 AD
------
whip worker in antioch which has 2 workers now
CS in.
Gift monarchy to izzy for 70 gold, not enough to boost relations.
We lose friendly with Ramses (not due to this gift), too bad.
switch to buro/caste/pacifism. One turn growth in Thes than specs.
175 AD
------
1 turn into Cal and now Wk will trade it. I had 2 options here
- get cal/aest for cs
- get cal/aest/construction for cs + 200
second option is just bad but i think about the first. Ultimately
i decide against it, it's only 3 turns to cal, i don't need it right now since
i need to road/chop the resources. aest'd be good too but we're in caste so we can run specs. It's not only the monopoly on CS, also wfyabta. Maybe not so important here since we'll probably get Wong and Ramses to friendly in the future.
Can also gift currency to izz for 90, would get her to cautious probably
(i really have to look up the formula for this). But currency also helps her a lot, she has 3 ob's. She's backward but also quite higg in score, i don't want to get her started techwise so decide against this too.
200 AD
-----
Assign 4 specs in thes working all the 3 foods but leaving all the 1/2 food tiles.Move some workers to towards the cal resources, some workers begin chain irrigation to the northern corn. Switch forge in Adrianople to research for 1 turn to get cal next turn. Izzy begins to research feud 8 turns, her research rate resembles ours. I think i'll gift it once she's 3-4 turns from finishing.
225 AD
------
Calender in
Izzy makes peace with Asoka and it seems she has exorted Feud. She also has currency now. Well maybe i should have gifted it to her. Leaves us with the problem that we can only gift CS and Phil to her atm and she's still annoyed....So what happened here,
I think she extorted feud from Asoka and since i researched Calender this turn she was willing to trade this tech to Wang now. If i'd have been really sharp i might have seen this coming and gifted currency prev turn.It's a lot of work though to foresee all possible tech trades and it's never sure if the ais will actually make a deal once it comes up.
There were now some options regarding Izz,
-Leave it as it is taking our chances, checking the diplo screen frequently
-gift her CS or Philo. We have a monopoly on CS, not on Philo anymore. Kong has it and he's pleased with Izzy.
-Trade CS + 40 to aest with Wang and go for drama next Kong is apparently researching CS, we could trade CS a rush to drama could also work, in this
I think going for the third option, trading for aest, is best , we need it anyway and it's our last chance to get it in trade for some time. So i trade CS + 40 to aest setting research to drama.
250 AD
------
Manipulate tiles and set everything to research + some specs so as to get drama next turn.Workers are busy with the calender resources.
275 AD
------
Drama in and exchange for 50 gold with Izz. She's cautious now and she doesn't like us enough to declare on anyone which is ok for now.She still has to be checked every turn but i think she'll have a go at one of the others now.
Switch forges to hippo's in the border cities. Despite no libraries/academy we have 183 bpt which is ok. Paper'll be in in 5 turns. We're well on our way with the calender resources.
This is a nice time to stop, there are some issues to be discussed,
-Capital's unhealthy with next grow, are we going to run scientists there?
-Do we go paper now (guess so)
-Are we save enough regarding Izz
If you're lookin' for our 9xp axe, it's wandering through izzy's land looking for barb spots in the north.
Looking good. 
I'm really happy Izzy made peace with Asoka. With 3.17 vassal states are a pain and Izzy has almost twice the score of Asoka making it a real threat. We would have to interfere before she got feudalism.
I still don't like specialists in our capital -- we still have 2 good tiles waiting (grassland hill and plains hill). Screw the unhealthiness, the bureaucracy bonus makes up for it. Even so, I notice that we're exporting (our only source of) sheep to Charlemagne, so cancelling that deals allows the capital to grow another time before hitting unhealthiness. We could run an engineer after the mines as it will get boosted by bureaucracy and we might want the GE GPP later on even if it won't be a GP in the short run.
Things to do for the next player:
Assign a second artist to pop border in Harappan 1 turn sooner.
Switch this grassland farm to iron tile. This might push growth to 3 turns, but the sugar is up the next turn so we can then switch to the sugar to grow in 2 turns (from now) anyway but getting much more production.
Hire more scientists in our GP farm (picture below). This puts it at -5 food, but when the remaining dye tiles and the banana is ready it will only be at -1. If you can't get to it in time run a farm a turn or two, but that shouldn't be necessary.
Chop/mine the grassland hill these workers are standing on into the UoS. I think the workers should help out with Thessa first.
After this plantation I'd send 2 workers to the cow and the other ones towards Thessa (move towards the dye with jungle -> plantation -> cancel action same turn -> move towards the riverside dye -> plantation -> after finishing the riverside one move back to the jungle one -> finish plantation -> chain irrigate or mine eastwards). The banana can be dealth with using the 4 workers west of Thessa.
Cancel the action of the worker doing the plantation and instead chop the jungle the next turn. This way our incoming workers won't lose a turn while moving onto the sugar (cancel the go-to order).
I think 16 workers is more than what we want, but as you see I tend to manage their mobility actively which makes up for having less of them.
P.S. No point working cottages that we'll farm over soon anyway -- coast is simply better.
We could opt to starve our GP farm some more (remove farmed dye for instance) and then do 5 turns of slavery once the food basket is empty. We can use the 5 turns of slavery to add 1 population.
I'm really happy Izzy made peace with Asoka. With 3.17 vassal states are a pain and Izzy has almost twice the score of Asoka making it a real threat. We would have to interfere before she got feudalism.
I still don't like specialists in our capital -- we still have 2 good tiles waiting (grassland hill and plains hill). Screw the unhealthiness, the bureaucracy bonus makes up for it. Even so, I notice that we're exporting (our only source of) sheep to Charlemagne, so cancelling that deals allows the capital to grow another time before hitting unhealthiness. We could run an engineer after the mines as it will get boosted by bureaucracy and we might want the GE GPP later on even if it won't be a GP in the short run.
Things to do for the next player:
Assign a second artist to pop border in Harappan 1 turn sooner.
Spoiler :
Switch this grassland farm to iron tile. This might push growth to 3 turns, but the sugar is up the next turn so we can then switch to the sugar to grow in 2 turns (from now) anyway but getting much more production.
Spoiler :
Hire more scientists in our GP farm (picture below). This puts it at -5 food, but when the remaining dye tiles and the banana is ready it will only be at -1. If you can't get to it in time run a farm a turn or two, but that shouldn't be necessary.
Spoiler :
Chop/mine the grassland hill these workers are standing on into the UoS. I think the workers should help out with Thessa first.
Spoiler :
After this plantation I'd send 2 workers to the cow and the other ones towards Thessa (move towards the dye with jungle -> plantation -> cancel action same turn -> move towards the riverside dye -> plantation -> after finishing the riverside one move back to the jungle one -> finish plantation -> chain irrigate or mine eastwards). The banana can be dealth with using the 4 workers west of Thessa.
Spoiler :
Cancel the action of the worker doing the plantation and instead chop the jungle the next turn. This way our incoming workers won't lose a turn while moving onto the sugar (cancel the go-to order).
Spoiler :
I think 16 workers is more than what we want, but as you see I tend to manage their mobility actively which makes up for having less of them.
P.S. No point working cottages that we'll farm over soon anyway -- coast is simply better.
We could opt to starve our GP farm some more (remove farmed dye for instance) and then do 5 turns of slavery once the food basket is empty. We can use the 5 turns of slavery to add 1 population.
Dirk1302
Deity
I agree about most of your post, working cottages is force of habit 
, not much harm done, most of the time the city was at size 2.
Your idea with Thes is to assign extra specs now, return them to banana, dye when these tiles are ready? So we have more specs running in this time when we are actually working farms and less when we can work really good tiles.
Actually since we can really run a lot later it could have been a good idea to let the capital overtake Thes, then go all out in Thes. If we're not letting the capital overtake (the other cities'll be to late) then running them now is indeed best also since we may get over the health cap growing Thes further. With canceling of the sheep deal we're 2 under health cap now.
Harrapan indeed needs 2 artists, i hadn't seen it already had 2 culture so i thought it was always 2 turns. Nicomedia has a large food surplus, we're working 1 unimproved tile there atm, as it's a border city we could run artists there now unless it's going to be our second gp farm. In this case it needs to grow and it needs some more workers assigned. Antioch should run some artists too after sugar's up, it hasn't got enough food now. Alternatively this could be a gp farm too after sugar.
About workers:
I try to manage workers actively too meaning a worker should be working , not standing after it's turn. Jungle/forest/mine is an exception of course but if i have more workers in the neighbourhood i often road on such a tile first so the rest can move/work same turn later. The more workers you have, the easier this is. If we had only 8 workers for instance we'd be forced to move workers from for instance antioch back to the cal resources or wait longer for them to go up. So work would not be twice as slow but more. More workers not only mean more capacity to improve the tiles it also cuts down on loss of time due to movement. Now the right amount of workers is hard to calculate of course, maybe 12 would do, but i'm happy with 16. In the end there is also the human factor, while i certainly don't automate workers before any meaningful improvement is up there is a limit to the MM i like to invest in them. Exception is the start of the game where i calculate the optimal first 30 moves or so of the worker(s).
, not much harm done, most of the time the city was at size 2.Your idea with Thes is to assign extra specs now, return them to banana, dye when these tiles are ready? So we have more specs running in this time when we are actually working farms and less when we can work really good tiles.
Actually since we can really run a lot later it could have been a good idea to let the capital overtake Thes, then go all out in Thes. If we're not letting the capital overtake (the other cities'll be to late) then running them now is indeed best also since we may get over the health cap growing Thes further. With canceling of the sheep deal we're 2 under health cap now.
Harrapan indeed needs 2 artists, i hadn't seen it already had 2 culture so i thought it was always 2 turns. Nicomedia has a large food surplus, we're working 1 unimproved tile there atm, as it's a border city we could run artists there now unless it's going to be our second gp farm. In this case it needs to grow and it needs some more workers assigned. Antioch should run some artists too after sugar's up, it hasn't got enough food now. Alternatively this could be a gp farm too after sugar.
About workers:
I try to manage workers actively too meaning a worker should be working , not standing after it's turn. Jungle/forest/mine is an exception of course but if i have more workers in the neighbourhood i often road on such a tile first so the rest can move/work same turn later. The more workers you have, the easier this is. If we had only 8 workers for instance we'd be forced to move workers from for instance antioch back to the cal resources or wait longer for them to go up. So work would not be twice as slow but more. More workers not only mean more capacity to improve the tiles it also cuts down on loss of time due to movement. Now the right amount of workers is hard to calculate of course, maybe 12 would do, but i'm happy with 16. In the end there is also the human factor, while i certainly don't automate workers before any meaningful improvement is up there is a limit to the MM i like to invest in them. Exception is the start of the game where i calculate the optimal first 30 moves or so of the worker(s).
The Tessa screenshot has already assigned the extra specialists (suggestion). Ingame we only have 4 or something and are working a bunch of farms.
I forgot to mention the banana as health before, so the capital can grow twice before running into unhealthiness.
Judging by our crazy research rate (variant taken into consideration) we don't need that many GSs. While it's never a bad thing to get another GS we might want to squeeze in another GM instead. I imagine 1 GS for education and 1 for liberalism is more than enough. With that in mind we could run merchants in Thessa instead of scientists in not too long.
It depends on what we want I guess. We could get 4-5 GSs and lightbulb towards steel or we could get 2 GMs and upgrade more (much earlier attack). I see us winning with both approaches.
I forgot to mention the banana as health before, so the capital can grow twice before running into unhealthiness.
Judging by our crazy research rate (variant taken into consideration) we don't need that many GSs. While it's never a bad thing to get another GS we might want to squeeze in another GM instead. I imagine 1 GS for education and 1 for liberalism is more than enough. With that in mind we could run merchants in Thessa instead of scientists in not too long.
It depends on what we want I guess. We could get 4-5 GSs and lightbulb towards steel or we could get 2 GMs and upgrade more (much earlier attack). I see us winning with both approaches.
Dirk1302
Deity
Second approach's more exciting, since we don't have that much to build it's easier to build/whip a good fleet of units/spies. We'll have enough to trade to keep us going for a while, we'll have GM's to do the upgrades. So we can raise the slider/assign spies. It would be great if we could squeeze in constitution for jails so we get an extra multiplier. Don't think that fits in with an early war strat though. Nationalism could also work but with the slider at 100% spy for instance i think the buro bonus might still outproduce the 25% extra spy output. OTOH the empire is great for drafting too.
As it is we might even get lib here with self researching everything, 2GS is more than enough to get it.
As it is we might even get lib here with self researching everything, 2GS is more than enough to get it.
looking good!
what's our timeframe for offense?
Not necessarily the best strategy, but it would be nice to use the UU--maybe UU+drafted muskets.
I'm generally against the drafted rifle/cannon thing (not because it doesn't work--just seems like it's become a little tiresome)
what's our timeframe for offense?
Not necessarily the best strategy, but it would be nice to use the UU--maybe UU+drafted muskets.
I'm generally against the drafted rifle/cannon thing (not because it doesn't work
--just seems like it's become a little tiresome)Dirk1302
Deity
Agree with that Ungy, on deity i often go for AL first nowadays, it's often an extremely safe way to play but it gets tiresome too. So i'm all for experimenting with some mounted blitz attacks. Drafted muskets for these attacks are great to defend the conquered lands , if we don't get the spy points up in time we can use trebs. But once you use trebs you lose the lightning speed of purely mounted attacks.
Have to think about the time frame, would cataphracts be best or cuirassiers? We might get to mil trad earlier than guilds. Also as silver stated earlier cuirassiers ignore wall/castle defense.
Have to think about the time frame, would cataphracts be best or cuirassiers? We might get to mil trad earlier than guilds. Also as silver stated earlier cuirassiers ignore wall/castle defense.
pigswill
fly (one day)
Got it. Not sure if I'll play before Christmas, but I'm not sure I won't.
Understood most of Rusten's worker micro-management.
Will study the save a bit more to see if there's anything I can contribute to the discussion.
Understood most of Rusten's worker micro-management.
Will study the save a bit more to see if there's anything I can contribute to the discussion.
silverbullet
King
I am against drafting on this game. We should stay in bureaucracy all the time. If we need muskets, we can whip them, although CG2 longbows should be fine too.
I think we should use trebuchets and tech towards cannons so we can mass upgrade them.
I prefer to use the liberalism free tech for either economics (GM for upgrades) or something on the steel path. Nationalism seems like a waste here, especially since Madrid has pyramids so we can run representation regardless.
I think the tech plan should be roughly like this:
- Paper->education (1 bulb)-> liberalims (1 bulb+tech until 1 turn left).
- After lib bulb trade for machinery, guilds, engineering.
- Self research or trade for HBR, build stables and whip a lot of horse archers.
- Self research or trade for banking.
- Complete liberalism and take economics
- Mass upgrade to cataphracts
- Vassal Izzy and make her accept Judaism/theocracy to get her friendly.
- Tech to steel and vassal Ramesses.
- If we get 2 friendly vassals they can help us tech. With directed research and trade we should be able to keep up in tech until assembly line/artillery and kill everyone else.
Dirk1302
Deity
Why exactly? We're spiritual so we can switch in and out of civic easily. If we're going for mounted then buro and natio roughly cancel each other out at the moment we set the slider to 100% spy points. o drafting is possible in that scenario.
I agree that a plan with trebs, cataphracts and longbows will work btw.In this case you bombard with the trebs and attack with the cataphracts, i've done this with cuirassiers instead of cataphracts and it works fine as long as you build a lot of trebs ( more than you'd build cannons).
If natio isn't a good tech because we're not going miltrad (and we have no marble iirc) then we can make maybe make a direct run for steel. Really put on lots of scientists, continue to bulb pp (our capital will like that) , 1/2 bulb chem, take steel. Maybe then go for a GM but admittedly that won't be that easy anymore as gp's will have become expensive. Its' immortal in the end and apart from Kong these ais may take ages to tech to lib. Gunpowder is used in this scenario to trade for guilds/engineering etc...
I agree that a plan with trebs, cataphracts and longbows will work btw.In this case you bombard with the trebs and attack with the cataphracts, i've done this with cuirassiers instead of cataphracts and it works fine as long as you build a lot of trebs ( more than you'd build cannons).
If natio isn't a good tech because we're not going miltrad (and we have no marble iirc) then we can make maybe make a direct run for steel. Really put on lots of scientists, continue to bulb pp (our capital will like that) , 1/2 bulb chem, take steel. Maybe then go for a GM but admittedly that won't be that easy anymore as gp's will have become expensive. Its' immortal in the end and apart from Kong these ais may take ages to tech to lib. Gunpowder is used in this scenario to trade for guilds/engineering etc...
silverbullet
King
I can see the point of nationhood if we plan to use spy points, but I think it might be too expensive in this game. I think in 3.17 it's rarely good to go for spy city revolts without at least jails, and we are not allowed to build those.
I am reluctant to give up bureaucracy even for 5 turns because this is our only commerce multiplier, but perhaps it's worth it if we can get 15 muskets in return.
I wouldn't tech nationalism for this though, if we can trade for it I would consider it, otherwise we can stay in bureau.
I am not planning on being able to tech liberalism->steel (although it is possible). I hope we might be able to do liberalism->economics or liberalism->chemistry.
Steel is needed for our 2nd war, not the first, and after chemistry powered workshops we can get decent research by building research with a 25% modifier, effectively 6 beakers per grassland tile (with -1 food), which will help with the final push for steel.
In any case, that is my general suggestion. We can fine tune the tech path after education is done, or decide on a different path altogether depending on the AI.
What we know for sure is that we go now for paper->education->lib and build Sankore.
I am reluctant to give up bureaucracy even for 5 turns because this is our only commerce multiplier, but perhaps it's worth it if we can get 15 muskets in return.
I wouldn't tech nationalism for this though, if we can trade for it I would consider it, otherwise we can stay in bureau.
I am not planning on being able to tech liberalism->steel (although it is possible). I hope we might be able to do liberalism->economics or liberalism->chemistry.
Steel is needed for our 2nd war, not the first, and after chemistry powered workshops we can get decent research by building research with a 25% modifier, effectively 6 beakers per grassland tile (with -1 food), which will help with the final push for steel.
In any case, that is my general suggestion. We can fine tune the tech path after education is done, or decide on a different path altogether depending on the AI.
What we know for sure is that we go now for paper->education->lib and build Sankore.
Dirk1302
Deity
We're not in a hurry to decide, there are some factors in this game that make drafting great:
- we don't have much to build so we will build the hippo's and the GT rather early
- with the hippo's we could fight unhappiness from overdrafting rather easy
- since we're spiritual we can slip into natio and theo rather easyily, this means that the
musket's we'll draft get one promo out of the box
- we have lots of happiness resources iirc
So even 5 turns of natio could mean 5 muskets from GT, 1-2 from the other cities ~ 15-20 muskets almost for free. We can reserve the whipping for cataphracts and trebs in this case. Whatever we do, this can't be bad.
- we don't have much to build so we will build the hippo's and the GT rather early
- with the hippo's we could fight unhappiness from overdrafting rather easy
- since we're spiritual we can slip into natio and theo rather easyily, this means that the
musket's we'll draft get one promo out of the box
- we have lots of happiness resources iirc
So even 5 turns of natio could mean 5 muskets from GT, 1-2 from the other cities ~ 15-20 muskets almost for free. We can reserve the whipping for cataphracts and trebs in this case. Whatever we do, this can't be bad.
Yes I've rarely seen a setup this good for drafting for all those points.
Dirk1302
Deity
Maybe another round once we get to rifling and we have some gold multipliers 
.
.
pigswill
fly (one day)
Sorry for the short notice. I'd like to skip this round because I'm devoting my civ time to a noble walkthrough at the moment.
silverbullet
King
Ungy is back on Jan 2nd.
Is there anyone available to play a round before that? Vra?
Roster:
Dirk - just played.
pigswill - skip
Vra - up now
Rusten - on deck
Silverbullet
Ungy - on vacation until Jan 2nd
Is there anyone available to play a round before that? Vra?
Roster:
Dirk - just played.
pigswill - skip
Vra - up now
Rusten - on deck
Silverbullet
Ungy - on vacation until Jan 2nd
