UNGY7 We'll do it by ourself

[SnowlyWhite]

obviously

now, real questions:

- stop the war?
- declare on any of the two sides? declare before or after an eventual war stop?(all those assuming declaration only - not sending something overseas or anything like that)
- stick to our religion or fr?

 

[Dirk1302]

No to all atm i'd think. Maybe declaring on Izz is a temporarily good gambit with Boudica, i can't think of any problem with that as Izz's useless and harmless. I'd like to know more of the rest of the world before i'd give Boudica techs or switch out of a religion which is very profitable atm. It's not necessary now either, we can switch once peace/vassalization has happened to Izz/Boudica.

Declaring on Boudica is a very bad plan imo, would never occur to me to do that. After astro she'll be a pain, we'll have to watch her constantly. So much easier to mobilize ourselves to fight an effective war against those unknown ais than fight fruitless wars against Boudica.

 

[SnowlyWhite]

hmm, then I'll use 2 of the gms as explorers due to no ob...

 

[Duckweed]

I'd send them all to the best commercial city to support researching steel as soon as possible, caravels can do the same scouting jobs, we don't need to know the inland map, winning navigation is important.

 

[ungy]

I'd definately get 2 caravels up ASAP going for the bonus--Boudica has optics so we are not a cinch for the circumnav--and a third to shuttle GMs, meet the other AI quicker. We're a bit hamstrung until we get a better lay of the land.
Definately no to any DOW and I also wouldn't give Boudica any techs until we get more info.

 

[SnowlyWhite]

well, guess that sums what everyone currently around thinks.

Then will probably take it tomorrow.

 

[SnowlyWhite]

turn 190

switch bank to caravel in orleans

turn 191

harbor in marseilles
whip caravel in orleans; ToA is in Edirne, so that's where the mission should go

turn 192

hrmph - peace between boudica and izzy. Both are annoyed with us... very funny
for some wierd reason we build grocers without havin' any resource for them instead of harbors. Switch to harbors where there's pollution.

turn 193

gamble... and lose

turn 194

astro in; lose 1 happy from monument. Up culture at 10.
Of all things, hbr is next... sorry, but flanking units are too good to pass up in a defensive war.

turn 195

construction - 1 turn; want catas too... sorry, but collateral is almost as good as flanking
put a filler city near paris since it's no way we can have paris work it's tile given the current SG limitations.

turn 196

whip grocer in ny
start on gunpowder
whip salon in boston
fish to izzy for 8g
sheep to boudica for 18g
boudica has 16 cities. BAD!

turn 197

gg bifal
stable ordered in washington

turn 198

notice we can't sell resources either to the ai; will cancel the selling in 8 turns.

but we can gift so... always happy to help
We're boudica's worst enemy

turn 199

meet monty and willy... obviously willy kinda gets beaten by monty
boudica is wheohrn so... guess who given the peace treaty with izzy didn't expire yet Us or willy... I say us

start he in washington

turn 200

right... and what else? send her packing. Definitelly we'll have a very nice relation with this lady
gunpowder in, start on eng - chemistry

turn 201

turn 202

caravel in rheims for surveillance, walls next
racks in boston, musketer next

turn 203

he in washington, knight next
racks in toulose(toulon... no clue, musketer next)
theatre in orleans, walls next
gm finally finds edirne, cash in 2100g
sully ain't boudica's vassal anymore

turn 204

guess it's not willy
salon finally done in paris, slider goes 100, 3 to chemistry

turn 206

circ. won
settler and galleon are for hopefully some unknown land mass. Rest it's musketer for defence in minor cities, catapults in paris and knights in washington
we get a gs in washington

turn 207

stop after playing it. Most workers are idling.
Could do a fast whipping round of trebs. - 4 turns to steel, then upgrade them. Don't know the target however and boudica is coming.

Don't forget to cancel the resource selling. Thought we can sell as long as we don't trade; sorry, my mistake. And don't forget to cancel the sheep we're paying tribute to monty.

 

[Dirk1302]

Looks good, was surprised at the 10% culture but it's indeed clearly best. Not sure who Boudica is going for but could well be us. Well she doesn't have astro yet so we have time to prepare. We seem to have a comfortable techlead already

 

[ungy]

OK-- I've got it.

We're cruising along nicely--but I'm a bit confused as to how to proceed.

A few housekeeping matters--we should put our EP's I think to Boudica and we have 2 gold deals we need to cancel.

Obviously Boudica is the only AI that can beat us. If we can keep peace with her we can take out the other continent and then we'll be able to handle her. Trouble I see is that we'll need to play some defense. My best guess is that she is going for Iz again--she got an event or AP peace (2 turn war). We can easily get her to cautious if we ditch the religion.

We're teching very well so my inclination would be to go steel-rifling-MT and build globe in NY--although with such a good capital maybe nat isn't worth it. In any case I think we should get rifles as we'll face lots of knights. As I see it we're not in a hurry up mode--we have a big tech lead but we'll face a lot of units so we need a large force. So I wouldn't build cats or trebs planning upgrade--we're almost to steel anyway.

Questions:

1. Should we build the globe and run nat? I'm leaning for it.

2. Once steel is in I would build several drydocks. If Boudica doesn't tech astro, should we build privateers to harass her and thin our her navy? I also lean towards it--we should get some life out of privateers here and that may get us a medic which would be pretty useful to send off with our invasion force.

3. Do you agree with tech path?

 

[SnowlyWhite]

well, yes, but we have 2 other gms(ok, one currently serving as explorer )

trebs. to cannons always seemed a bargain to me; rifles would indeed be best, problem is we're on the wrong path. I'd still go for boudica 1st and seal the game, but that's just me.

I think 99% it's us since she was wheoorn when she couldn't declare on izzy yet(still peace) and willy is on the other side and was the only other ai she knew.

1. 70/30 nat/bureau
2. hmm... yes, guess we could.
3. I'd go MT, attack boudica(no rifling). But I assume I"m in minority with boudica 1st. Trouble with monty/willy is their continent is 10 turns away from us or so...

basically - my reasoning is - everyone is founder of their own religion; there aren't same personalities. so probably half of the SG limitation won't affect us too much - they won't trade with each other. Their fav. civics don't have similarities either - ergo, it'll be much war. The only one who can actually win something is boudica. Monty is always too stupid, izzy is crap at war, willy already lost and sully... hmm, sully would be the other option. Another thing that could tip my balance is who builds/built(no clue, didn't check) Versailles - so we can postpone sci. meth some more.

Plus, again, from what I know, ai's don't check war targets with nations on whom they can't declare. So Boudica goes for us(I don't get it why there's no fleet of galleys waiting to get to galleons in the barb. city, but normally we're the target).

 

[ungy]

Plus, again, from what I know, ai's don't check war targets with nations on whom they can't declare. So Boudica goes for us(I don't get it why there's no fleet of galleys waiting to get to galleons in the barb. city, but normally we're the target).

didn't know that--if anyone can confirm that would be great.

That would be more reason for privateering

 

[ungy]

3. I'd go MT, attack boudica(no rifling). But I assume I"m in minority with boudica 1st. Trouble with monty/willy is their continent is 10 turns away from us or so...

I'm not at all sure we should attack the far continent. As you point out, if we can defeat Boudica we win. Sending our army across the globe with a tough warmonger nearby is risky.

But as for no rifling, I disagree there. If we go for Boudica, we need a large force and it'll take some time to accumulate that anyway. We can build the other units while we tech rifling. My problem with MT is that we will run into lots of knights and knights vs grennies are 20-30% w/o collat while knights vs rifles 5-10%. Plus of course the drafting possibility (although we are poorly positioned for drafting IMHO). I'd continue on to cav and bring along a few of those.

 

[bestsss]

>>didn't know that--if anyone can confirm that would be great.

^ confirmed

if (isHasMet((TeamTypes)iI))
{
[B]	if (canDeclareWar((TeamTypes)iI))[/B] //returns false during forced peace
	{
		if (iNoWarRoll >= AI_noWarAttitudeProb(AI_getAttitude((TeamTypes)iI)))
....

So it's safe to assume she is after you...

 

[SnowlyWhite]

well, we could attack with plain cuirassiers as stack defense; or grens. Obviously, rifles are the best, but it's 3 techs away. On the other hand, yeah, probably we won't be ready too soon. At least with the killing part - the collateral part we can muster fast enough.

 

[Dirk1302]

we have a big tech lead and will reach rifles cannons first. If we prebuild units and upgrade some to rifles/cannons later we can't go wrong i think we can just steamroll Boudica from there.

 

[SnowlyWhite]

GA - 8 rounds of drafting(muskets to rifles), back to bureau, cannons, pew pew. Should've saved the last GS for GA(firing it with a GM would be subpar since it's such a sweet great person later ingame); we could wait for next gs, shrug

and I wanted to save him, but then got carried away...

 

[Duckweed]

I am wondering why Boudica was not given a free tech to make her at least cautious, but the useless Izzy got the free tech and this further annoyed Boudica.

The situation is severe now, defending Rheims with land units is hard, so the better way is navy. I'd start building frigates and privateers immediately and research MS after Steel and build SoLs to kill everything in the sea. Boudica should be researching Astro and Chemistry now. Time is urgent, whipping the coastal cities for navies.

If we can control the sea, then Rifling can be delayed, I'm more interested in the free GSpy and GS after MS. I think we can run 2 or 3 golden ages if we can win the 2 GPs and hence GT will become very useful with the free civic change.

 

[SnowlyWhite]

well, boudica was in wheoorn already, we had 0 military, we were/are 99% the target and the tech she wanted was the one needed to reach us... is that good enough?

and defending rheims is perfectly doable - there's no hill near it, so we should be able to flank/collateral to oblivion...

 

[bestsss]

@Duckweed
if you remember the discussion in AW thread the AI might for the undefended cities in the north if you fortify (add more units in) Rheims, esp. if she doesn't assemble the fleet in Cherokee.
While Rheims is defendable, she has cuirassiers if I read the tech. screen well.

Btw, I suppose you meant to give her some freebie tech. to make her cautious, not to give in the demand.

Also I am not sure but if you declare her 1st and kill some caravels she might be willing to sign peace after some turns.

 

[Duckweed]

well, boudica was in wheoorn already, we had 0 military, we were/are 99% the target and the tech she wanted was the one needed to reach us... is that good enough?

and defending rheims is perfectly doable - there's no hill near it, so we should be able to flank/collateral to oblivion...

Boudica was in war mode before her demand, really? A very important message, but you did not mention. However, my opinion of giving Boudica a free tech is something like paper very early, probably by the time we meet all AIs in her continent.

Are you kidding? what do you have to flank/collateral a big stack of Cuir. While navy battle let you kill 1 galleon + 3 land unit in the same time. I was not saying Rheims is not defensible, but the cost would be high whether we go offensive defense since we don't have dominant units. Navy is a cheaper way to defend.

One good thing is that Boudica does not have many navies for now so we should have enough time for war preparation and I still think we should not land Boudica's continent, her units is too many, we should join one side on Monty's continent.