Unique Ability Elimination Thread

[shaglio]

That's funny! You get an extra today.

Sacrificial Captives: 25
Ingenuity: 11
Phoenician Heritage: 24
Art of War: 24
Sun Never Sets: 23
Ancien Regime: 19
Hellenic League: 20
Great Andean Road: 29
Scholars of the Jade Hall: 18
Dutch East India Company: 20
Achaemenid Legacy: 32
The Glory of Rome: 26
Siberian Riches: 20
Father Governs Children: 13
Nobel Prize: 24

Ancien Regime: Nearly impossible to get to Rationalism as your 7th policy unless you ICS.

Dutch East India Company: and are critical in the early game. This UA does both.

I think you skipped my post.

 

[Seabastian Civ]

Sacrificial Captives: 26
Ingenuity: 11
Phoenician Heritage: 24
Art of War: 24
Sun Never Sets: 23
Ancien Regime: 19
Hellenic League: 20
Great Andean Road: 29
Scholars of the Jade Hall: 18
Dutch East India Company: 20
Achaemenid Legacy: 32
The Glory of Rome: 23
Siberian Riches: 20
Father Governs Children: 10 (-3) A great UA when coupled with the +20 patronage policy... free, easy culture, soldiers, and faith. But the least great one left, imo, partly because of Coup Spam late game.
Nobel Prize: 25 (+1) Fantastically versatile.

 

[Petiscator]

Sacrificial Captives: 26
Ingenuity: 11
Phoenician Heritage: 24
Art of War: 24
Sun Never Sets: 23
Ancien Regime: 19
Hellenic League: 20
Great Andean Road: 29
Scholars of the Jade Hall: 18
Dutch East India Company: 20
Achaemenid Legacy: 32
The Glory of Rome: 20
Siberian Riches: 21
Father Governs Children: 10
Nobel Prize: 25

Damn. I like all those UAs left.

Siberian Riches: the production from strategic resources is really great early in the game and can turn a city into a production powerhouse if you find a nice spot with, lets say, 2 horse tiles.+1 production doesn't seem much, but it might be the difference between getting that Chichen Itza or not. The nice part about this is that, when I play Russia, I tend to enhance the bonus production with stables/forge and things like that, so it can turn amazingly good production tiles into better ones, as the percentage modifier from the production buildings enchance their ability. About the double resources: early in the game, you don't need that many horses/iron (unless you have 1 tile with 2 iron, lets say), so you can use this to trade with other empires without losing your own happiness. You also don't need a rich partner, as you can trade, lets say, 2 horses with Siam, 2 with Persia and 1 with India, so you won't have to wait for the AI to get te money to trade, you can have a lot of poor friends. The uranium is for bombing, no trades here, but that gold early in the game is great, the production bonus is even nicer. You don't have to play peacefuly: sell your horses before warring and your extra iron too. Siberian Riches often gets Russia more wonders than Egypt.

Glory of Rome: I hate to downvote this, hate hate hate, but I like the other bonuses so much more TT_TT Ok, I'll compare with Russia: lets say you found city 2, but it has a horse tile on grassland (2 food 1 prod for Rome, 2 food 2 prod for Russia). You are, at 1 pop, generating 2 base production with Rome, and 3 base production with Russia. Nice. Then, you start building a.. building (sounds redundant): 2.5 production for Rome, and 3 production from Russia. I agree that the Roman production FOR BUILDINGS might become greater than for Russia, but as said, it only applies to buildings and they have to be built in the capital already. I prefer Russia's +1 per strat bonus, as it applies to a reasonable amount of tiles (specially on strategic balance), but I agree that Glory of Rome is awesome. I didn't want to downvote this, really...

 

[Snoopaloop]

So tired of hearing people downvote something because "its boring" or " has no flavor." There were so many on the last page. Try to give some actual constructive reasoning people; like Petiscator's last post about the Glory of Rome for example.

 

[Crafty Bison]

Sacrificial Captives: 26
Ingenuity: 12
Phoenician Heritage: 24
Art of War: 24
Sun Never Sets: 23
Ancien Regime: 19
Hellenic League: 20
Great Andean Road: 29
Scholars of the Jade Hall: 18
Dutch East India Company: 20
Achaemenid Legacy: 32
The Glory of Rome: 20
Siberian Riches: 18
Father Governs Children: 10
Nobel Prize: 25

We're at the point where I don't think any of the remaining ones are bad, but some suit my palying style more than others, and some are more interesting than others.

SR: Not really sure how I play them any differently from normal other than just going wide (maybe caring a little more about diplo so I can trade away strategics), which diesn't really make it an interesting UA for me. I dunno, I just don't find passive production/gold bonuses that interesting. If anything, it takes away part of the game which is finding alternative means if securing strategics for war. Strong UU, but I don't like how the game plays with it.

Ingenuity: Very strong, but mostly I like the way it doesn't have to be used for a science vc cos it comes so early. Could be a warring science game which no-one else does so well, could be used to get key techs early on other victory paths. Versatile UA, and makes planning the game interesting imo.

 

[Seabastian Civ]

Just arranging the remaining UAs into their respective categories, I find the mix interesting. I know many of these are more mutli-faceted than others (Pho. Heritage, Ingenuity, Nobel Prize, Andean Road, etc.), but it is just surprising that such a variety of UAs remain. I predict the scientific UAs win out, given the power of science compared to other traits in CiV. I think one take away from this mix is how strong Art of War is. One would think a pure combat strength bonus, as opposed to a movement bonus, wouldn't survive this long, but lo and behold, there it is.

Production Bonuses: The Glory of Rome, Siberian Riches
War Bonuses: Art of War, Sun Never Sets, Achaemenid Legacy
Cultural Bonuses: Sacrificial Captives, Ancien Regime
Scientific Bonuses: Ingenuity, Scholars of the Jade Hall
City State Bonuses: Father Governs Children, Hellenic League, Nobel Prize
Economic Bonuses: Phoenician Heritage, Great Andean Road, Dutch East India Company

 

[Princeofnigeria]

+1 to great Andean road (30)
-3 to achaemanid Legacy (29)
I find the bonus to the great Andean road to be long lasting, benefitial in all eras, and allows for a wide array of stratagies.
I never really fell in love with Legacy. I felt that it was a self defeating ability (go to war, conquer city, lose happiness, less golden ages) and it makes me do things I wesn't entirely comfortable doing (going to war while I have the bonus rather than when I have the man power). I also feel that early on +10% CB is negligible. +1 speed is very nice though.

 

[Crafty Bison]

Just arranging the remaining UAs into their respective categories, I find the mix interesting. I know many of these are more mutli-faceted than others (Pho. Heritage, Ingenuity, Nobel Prize, Andean Road, etc.), but it is just surprising that such a variety of UAs remain. I predict the scientific UAs win out, given the power of science compared to other traits in CiV. I think one take away from this mix is how strong Art of War is. One would think a pure combat strength bonus, as opposed to a movement bonus, wouldn't survive this long, but lo and behold, there it is.

Production Bonuses: The Glory of Rome, Siberian Riches
War Bonuses: Art of War, Sun Never Sets, Achaemenid Legacy
Cultural Bonuses: Sacrificial Captives, Ancien Regime
Scientific Bonuses: Ingenuity, Scholars of the Jade Hall
City State Bonuses: Father Governs Children, Hellenic League, Nobel Prize
Economic Bonuses: Phoenician Heritage, Great Andean Road, Dutch East India Company

Not sure about this, for some UA's it works fine, but for others not so much. Also what do you mean by economic? Is it just gold? hapiness as well? Does it include the production from Carthages harbours? I'd be tempted to include Russia in economic as well. Also England, whose workers and settlers move around faster than normal on water maps. I'd also say Incas get a war bonus too, and that Nobel prize, while best for CS's, could also be used as a babylon style science bonus or a cultural bonus. I don't even want to get started on Persia, which could be in the cultural, production, economic (faster workers or gold) or war bonus section. To me it seems odd to pigeonhole them; wasn't the whole idea of the thread to see the UA's in ways you hadn't before by looking at the comments of others?

 

[SnowKomodo]

So tired of hearing people downvote something because "its boring" or " has no flavor." There were so many on the last page. Try to give some actual constructive reasoning people; like Petiscator's last post about the Glory of Rome for example.

I disagree. Some people put a heavy emphasis on flavor. Nobody has the duty to provide constructive reasoning if their reasoning truly is solely based on flavor for a particular civ. But at the same time, yeah, I definitely agree that if someone can find something more to say then they should definitely say it

 

[Petiscator]

One thing I'm notticing here is people underestimating Ingenuity. It isn't about being able to normaly generate a good number of great scientists, as some have stated, but about enchancing a lot that number and getting a good lead on early technologies. Boring? Ok, it is not as fun as 7 Cities of Gold, Achaemenid Legacy or Patriarchate of Constantinople, but it is really powerful. I find it nice to get such an early GP, and, by the end game, generating a GS every 10-12 turns is something hard to achieve with any other civ but Babylon (or Sweden)

(I didn't upvote this yet because I really really really like those other UAs, and am still trying to enchance my Scientifical Victories - my last game as Babylon ended in the shameful turn of 363. As Carthage, I've done far better, but this is because it was actually my first time playing Babylon and got it by random)

 

[Seabastian Civ]

. . . for some UA's it works fine, but for others not so much. . .

Yep, that's what I said. Its interesting that some of the single-minded ones are still around, which speaks to their strength through focus.

 

[Snoopaloop]

I disagree. Some people put a heavy emphasis on flavor. Nobody has the duty to provide constructive reasoning if their reasoning truly is solely based on flavor for a particular civ. But at the same time, yeah, I definitely agree that if someone can find something more to say then they should definitely say it

You're confusing me here!

I never stated that people have the "duty to provide constructive reasoning" or meant to imply their points are invalid because of it. Just that I hoping people might give explanations or criticisms about their up/down votes, so we can possibly learn something for it.

 

[Rooftrellen]

Sacrificial Captives: 26
Ingenuity: 9
Phoenician Heritage: 25
Art of War: 24
Sun Never Sets: 23
Ancien Regime: 19
Hellenic League: 20
Great Andean Road: 29
Scholars of the Jade Hall: 18
Dutch East India Company: 20
Achaemenid Legacy: 32
The Glory of Rome: 20
Siberian Riches: 18
Father Governs Children: 10
Nobel Prize: 25

I don't think I'm underestimating the skill. Getting a few more scientists, including one dang early, is all good and well, but I can't imagine it being game changing. It's a big boost early, but it dies off hard late as GP become harder to make. Comparing to Nobel Prize, the boost to GS is nice (depending on map size, between much better and slightly worse), but there's no way to get ANY other GP without throwing away your UA AND there's no extra way to use ANY GP. Give me the flexibility.

Phoenician Heritage is proof that not all early boons die out. It kicks in from the first sea resource tile near a coastal city, then gets better with the Wheel, gets better if you get Machu Piccu, gets better with railroad...

 

[Gucumatz]

Just arranging the remaining UAs into their respective categories, I find the mix interesting. I know many of these are more mutli-faceted than others (Pho. Heritage, Ingenuity, Nobel Prize, Andean Road, etc.), but it is just surprising that such a variety of UAs remain. I predict the scientific UAs win out, given the power of science compared to other traits in CiV. I think one take away from this mix is how strong Art of War is. One would think a pure combat strength bonus, as opposed to a movement bonus, wouldn't survive this long, but lo and behold, there it is.

Production Bonuses: The Glory of Rome, Siberian Riches
War Bonuses: Art of War, Sun Never Sets, Achaemenid Legacy
Cultural Bonuses: Sacrificial Captives, Ancien Regime
Scientific Bonuses: Ingenuity, Scholars of the Jade Hall
City State Bonuses: Father Governs Children, Hellenic League, Nobel Prize
Economic Bonuses: Phoenician Heritage, Great Andean Road, Dutch East India Company

A lot of these UAs fit in multiple categories like you said

Ill put them in multi categories just for fun

Production Bonuses: The Glory of Rome, Siberian Riches, Phoenician Heritage
War Bonuses: Art of War, Sun Never Sets, Achaemenid Legacy, Great Andean Road, Phoenician Heritage
Cultural Bonuses: Sacrificial Captives, Ancien Regime
Scientific Bonuses: Ingenuity, Scholars of the Jade Hall
City State Bonuses: Father Governs Children, Hellenic League, Nobel Prize
Economic Bonuses: Phoenician Heritage, Great Andean Road, Dutch East India Company, Achaemenid Legacy

Which means in addition to the 2 Science UAs - Phoenician Heritage, Great Andean Road, and Archaemenid Legacy have the most uses. And I thats a pretty fair assesment.

Top 5 UAs right there ^

 

[Udey1]

I don't think I'm underestimating the skill. Getting a few more scientists, including one dang early, is all good and well, but I can't imagine it being game changing.

You don't imagine getting a free scientist at writing is game changing???

It would be easy to fill a page expounding on how much CHANGE this does in fact make possible, but maybe a difficulty disconnect is the issue - either that or you are forgetting you should -settle- this scientist in almost all cases, not bulb.




Ingenuity: 10 +1 - hugely game changing, jump in tech lead, pursue multiple strategies without being hindered by science, go to war advanced early, ect ect ect ect ect....

Siberian Riches: 15 -3 - passive bonus is passive. Sure it is nice, but I will have to make the "flavor" argument against this one.

Ingenuity to me gives flavor when one game I can bash science with Babylon, and the next i can bash heads- all while jumping out to the lead in tech since ancient era. Science is the name of the game, and early > late.

 

[woodshadows]

Sacrificial Captives: 26
Ingenuity: 9
Phoenician Heritage: 25
Art of War: 24
Sun Never Sets: 23
Ancien Regime: 19
Hellenic League: 20
Great Andean Road: 29
Scholars of the Jade Hall: 18
Dutch East India Company: 20
Achaemenid Legacy: 32
The Glory of Rome: 20
Siberian Riches: 18
Father Governs Children: 7
Nobel Prize: 26

nobel prize - fun and interesting, pushes you in different directions than you'd normally be pushed.

father governs children - not very useful on higher levels of play / boring

 

[maurcus]

Sacrificial Captives: 26
Ingenuity: 9
Phoenician Heritage: 25
Art of War: 24
Sun Never Sets: 23
Ancien Regime: 19
Hellenic League: 21
Great Andean Road: 29
Scholars of the Jade Hall: 18
Dutch East India Company: 20
Achaemenid Legacy: 32
The Glory of Rome: 20
Siberian Riches: 18
Father Governs Children: 4
Nobel Prize: 26

i posted behind woodshadow

(-3) father governs children
(+1) hellinic league

alright here are the stats if both sides have say 50 influence with a food CS that means siam gets 3 for 20 turns while greece gets 2 for 30 turns
if both sides had a religion and the patronage opener than it would be siam getting 3for 40 turns while greec gets 2 indefinitely! no that is what i call a UA.

 

[Lordleoz]

Sacrificial Captives: 26
Ingenuity: 10
Phoenician Heritage: 25
Art of War: 24
Sun Never Sets: 23
Ancien Regime: 19
Hellenic League: 21
Great Andean Road: 29
Scholars of the Jade Hall: 18
Dutch East India Company: 20
Achaemenid Legacy: 32
The Glory of Rome: 21
Siberian Riches: 15
Father Governs Children: 1
Nobel Prize: 26

+the Glory of Rome: adds flavor, and is very useful and practical.

-Father Governs Children: to get that double bonus, you should first be an ally or friend with that city state, which is not an easy thing to do.

 

[Lordleoz]

You don't imagine getting a free scientist at writing is game changing???

It would be easy to fill a page expounding on how much CHANGE this does in fact make possible, but maybe a difficulty disconnect is the issue - either that or you are forgetting you should -settle- this scientist in almost all cases, not bulb.




Ingenuity: 10 +1 - hugely game changing, jump in tech lead, pursue multiple strategies without being hindered by science, go to war advanced early, ect ect ect ect ect....

Siberian Riches: 15 -3 - passive bonus is passive. Sure it is nice, but I will have to make the "flavor" argument against this one.

Ingenuity to me gives flavor when one game I can bash science with Babylon, and the next i can bash heads- all while jumping out to the lead in tech since ancient era. Science is the name of the game, and early > late.

Plz copy the whole list next time

 

[Gucumatz]

acrificial Captives: 26
Ingenuity: 11 (+1) - I personally don't like to use Babylon much, because I think its so powerful. But it is a great UA. +8 science as soon as you get writing is huge. +50% Great Scientist Production is also huge. Getting those great scientists early and quickly for a ton of academies allows for fast growth and fast tech speeding. It just provides too much power and momentum to be this low
Phoenician Heritage: 25
Art of War: 24
Sun Never Sets: 23
Ancien Regime: 19
Hellenic League: 21
Great Andean Road: 29
Scholars of the Jade Hall: 18
Dutch East India Company: 17 (-3) Once again nearly entirely negated in multiplayer. And if you are going to have a UA that has no effect whatsoever in an entire sphere of the game - it better make up for it in singleplayer - and it doesn't do enough to do that.
Achaemenid Legacy: 32
The Glory of Rome: 21
Siberian Riches: 15
Father Governs Children: 1
Nobel Prize: 26