Unique Ability Elimination Thread

Scholars of the Jade Hall 6
Arachnaid Legacy 9.

Seriously, I have no idea how Persias UA is still in the top two, its ok but really not that great. I just hate wasting GPs on golden ages, Id rather settle or use their abilities.

Koreas UA is unbelievably strong for both Science and Culture games, too many people however don't seem to understand how to grow 4-6 20+ pop cities and having them fill up every specialist slot. I can reach over 2000 BPT with 5-6 cities by 1700 AD using Koreas UA.
 
I'd like to give my opinion on more than just the remaining two options:

Firstly Great Andean Road - this UA is no where near as situational as most down voters consider it to be. Even with few hills, you still save over 50% on road costs, also if you add the commerce policy you are saving over 75% (there will always be some hill tiles to build your trade routes through). The UA is far more powerful than Incas UU and UB, and easily my second strongest after SOTJH.

Aztecs - I'm very surprised to see their UA ranking so high, and even more surprised that they only ranked 17th for overall civs. With start bias you should always start near freshwater. Don't ever think that just because you have no lakes the UB is junk - A size 40+ OCC capital by 1000 AD is not junk. In a recent game I played I had a size 30 capital plus 4 size 10 cities by 1000 AD. No one else can do this, that 15% food bonus is the strongest UB in the game, even if it needs river / lake side cities. Combine it with temple of Artemis, hanging gardens, fertility rites, feed the world, maybe even 15% while not at war (seriously try playing Monty as a pacifist and go tall), and fill out Tradition and your cities will be pop booming super fast (The UA fills tradition faster, I take Tradition plus right side of Honor for monty, as you get lots of extra happiness (and culture) from garrisons and defensive buildings). Still there are lots of better UAs.
 
Scholars of the Jade Hall 3 -3 lets face it, it's the weakest left and the golden age bonus neutralises a tech advantage
Arachnaid Legacy 10 +1 Enough to let a rifleman on defense stand up to a mech infantry!
 
Scholars of the Jade Hall: 0
Achaemenid Legacy: 11

-3 Scholars of the Jade Hall. I love this UA, especially because I do enjoy tall empires, but it is just not my top vote for the science based UA's.

+1 "Arachnid" Legacy: For the moment you research artillery, pump out/buy a few, and use that great artist in waiting to get the extra movement.

EDIT: Well I guess that's it. I was going to try setting someone else up for the final vote.

Now that the elimination threads are over...what can we all argue about?

@Gucu, very interesting info on the last few pages!
 
It's still running. Breaking rules on prev page and bhavv messed somthing. I wonder how list would look like if there where no such thing.

Scholars of the Jade Hall: 3
Achaemenid Legacy: 12

So go on and get rid of AL..;)
 
Scholars of the Jade Hall: 0 (-3)
Achaemenid Legacy: 13 (+1)

I just think AL is better than SotJH in my opinion, if AL is played right it is unstoppable.

SotJH is a great science UA nothing bad to say about it really I just prefer AL.
 
Gucumatz said:
And as the two lists had the same number of entries I just weighted the two equally and added their averages to produce a "putty" effect to compare overall in these cases.

I didn't include UUs in the sample combo or UBs/UIs because I would have to create a different weighting formula because would take 1. Too long 2. Be more subject to discrepancies.
Click to expand...

Sorry but this is rubbish experimental data mining. UA is already taken into account in the civ el.thread, so no need to count it more than once which you did. Your resulting ranking has no meaning ....especially not as a civ ranking which was already done before.
 
Karmah said:
Sorry but this is rubbish experimental data mining. UA is already taken into account in the civ el.thread, so no need to count it more than once which you did. Your resulting ranking has no meaning ....especially not as a civ ranking which was already done before.
Click to expand...

i actually found it interesting to see the ranking that resulted, it was also interesting to see the wide disparity that resulted between the ua and the civ elmination threads based on 'smaller sample size' for the ua thread. who would have thought that sacrificial captives would reach top 3 in ua thread and ingenuity out relatively early, when in the civ thread it was very different.. which doesn't make a lot of sense, considering for babylon their only good thing *is* their UA, while for the aztecs their ub and uu are really what make them a well-rounded and strong civ, far more than their ua in isolation.
 
bhavv said:
I'd like to give my opinion on more than just the remaining two options:

Firstly Great Andean Road - this UA is no where near as situational as most down voters consider it to be. Even with few hills, you still save over 50% on road costs, also if you add the commerce policy you are saving over 75% (there will always be some hill tiles to build your trade routes through). The UA is far more powerful than Incas UU and UB, and easily my second strongest after SOTJH.
Click to expand...

i've had too many games as the incas where i end up in some really desolate spot, a couple mountains, a few hills near my capital and not a lot beyond that for my other cities. what that equated to was playing with a civ which only got to build two snow terrace farms with one mountain (2 food per tile) and barely any 'free roads in hills' (like maybe 3), so I ended up essentially playing as a civ that got half price roads and a slinger UU (which I actually kind of like, but isn't gamechanging in any way). I think that's why incas are said to be 'situational', unless you get a very hilly/mountainous starting location (which you should with start bias.. but too often don't) you essentially miss out on 90% of the civs benefits (terrace farms/UA).
 
Skibbi said:
Scholars of the Jade Hall 3 -3 lets face it, it's the weakest left and the golden age bonus neutralises a tech advantage
Arachnaid Legacy 10 +1 Enough to let a rifleman on defense stand up to a mech infantry!
Click to expand...

really? a +10% combat bonus can do that? that must make china or ethiopia invincible.. that 10% bonus must be why maori warriors are such beasts.. or wait..
 
I guess we could do a civ elimination thread next, or has that already been done?
 
I'm quite shocked at the placement of nearly every single UA, I must admit. Of the top 10 we got, MAYBE 3 would make it in my top 10, and at least two of the bottom 10 would make my top 10.

In fact, I'll consider it and do my top 10...

1. Phoenician Heritage (9)
2. Glory of Rome (12)
3. Patriarchate of Constantinople (32)
4. Manifest Destiny (19)
5. Hellenic League (7)
6. Sacrificial Captives (3)
7. Father Governs Children (15)
8. Population Growth (34)
9. Long Count (22)
10. Furor Teutonicus (33) (the UA is so linked to this that it can't very well not be considered, or this might lose a spot or two)

I'm really not sure what happened to some of these. PoC, in particular, got hit hard seemingly for not having a UB to help, but in a thread about UA's, it's silly to discount one due to the rest of the civ, unless a part of that civ is VERY tied to the UA (such as hills for the Inca or Ethiopia's crazy defense between Spirit of Adwa and their UU).

I wasn't surprised that Population Growth went first, but it's an insane UA, and obviously more unappreciated than I had imagined.

Furor Teutonicus and PoC going back to back, and low, drove me crazy for the rest of the thread. Germany gets a UU that allows them to upgrade all those barb spearmen they'll get into a formidable force with virtually no investment. PoC is absolutely amazing if it is a contest of civs without any UU's or UB's. Both falter if looked at from the opposite direction however (FT is bad without UU's, while PoC gets a lower pick for religion if we count other unique parts), but I was shocked to see them both go so early, and I think very highly of both.

I'm starting to think I play this game all wrong :crazyeye:
 
1. Achaemenid Legacy
2. Scholars of the Jade Hall
3. Sacrificial Captives
4. Great Andean Road
5. Nobel Prize
6. Sun Never Sets
7. Hellenic League
8. Art of War
9. Phoenician Heritage
10. Siberian Riches

Interesting final result! My personal one (based on strength, playing feel, sp and mp) would have been:

1. Archaemenid Legacy
2. Great Andean Road
3. Ingenuity
4. Scholars of the Jade Hall
5. Nobel Prize
6. Art of War
7. Sacrificial Captives
8. Sun Never Sets
9. Patriarchate of Constantinople (Oh yes!)
10. Seven Cities of Gold
 
POC can potentially be very powerful but the potential to fail to found a religion on higher levels is so high that it really is a knock against it. Dromons are pretty great however and I think a lot of people who have never used them don't realize that they are more than 'just a stupid trireme replacement'.
 
my top five would be:

1. Hellenic League - I love patronage and the city state game
2. Great Andean Road - under proper conditions very strong
3. Scholars of Jade Hall - ensures your science will be in good shape
4. Great War Path - amazing on defense/great synergy with ub/uu/good gold savings
5. Wayfinding - super fun and under the right conditions very powerful.. mostly fun though
 
woodshadows said:
i actually found it interesting to see the ranking that resulted, it was also interesting to see the wide disparity that resulted between the ua and the civ elmination threads based on 'smaller sample size' for the ua thread. who would have thought that sacrificial captives would reach top 3 in ua thread and ingenuity out relatively early, when in the civ thread it was very different.. which doesn't make a lot of sense, considering for babylon their only good thing *is* their UA, while for the aztecs their ub and uu are really what make them a well-rounded and strong civ, far more than their ua in isolation.
Click to expand...

In the civ thread, Ingenuity got a lot of talk and a lot of support from the very start, as the key to Babylon.

Here, it didn't get the massive support...in fact, it got very little. There seemed to be one or two votes for it every day, which allowed it to stay around...then the sky fell in and tons of votes went against it.

Here, it was much more about theory, as well, I felt. Some UA's can't be taken in a vacuum, but others can, and there was no restriction to voting against UA's from civs you don't have.

In the civ thread, I wanted to vote down the DLC I didn't have based on the idea that anything that affects my game is better than something that does not, but the person that made it requested that people not do that, and I know I talked with a few people that thought it was unfair and wanted to hit some of the DLC civs they didn't have, and at least one person did.

Here, without such a restriction, UA's that aren't thought of so highly could be taken down, and down votes weren't forced onto certain other options due to the restriction.

For instance, I don't think much of Persia, but they are certainly ahead of Denmark and Polynesia for me in the civ elimination thread. I still downvoted them before either of those two were eliminated, with my 2nd vote, due to not being able to hit those two (or one or two others either).

It's also a matter of how you take each category. I think that this thread was considering how a human uses it, while the civ thread was more about playing with or against those civs for many people, hence the difference in how Austria did as a civ and with the UA.
 
woodshadows said:
i've had too many games as the incas where i end up in some really desolate spot, a couple mountains, a few hills near my capital and not a lot beyond that for my other cities. what that equated to was playing with a civ which only got to build two snow terrace farms with one mountain (2 food per tile) and barely any 'free roads in hills' (like maybe 3), so I ended up essentially playing as a civ that got half price roads and a slinger UU (which I actually kind of like, but isn't gamechanging in any way). I think that's why incas are said to be 'situational', unless you get a very hilly/mountainous starting location (which you should with start bias.. but too often don't) you essentially miss out on 90% of the civs benefits (terrace farms/UA).
Click to expand...

I havnt had much like that, anyone can get a bad spot. I mostly use Inca on Earth Maps where the bias almost always gets them starting out on the western north America, middle eastern vast mountain ranges. Even then, their UU is pretty junk, and the Terrace Farm isn't too good - for every mountain tile you have you lose out on a base tile that would normally produce more resources than a mountain buffs some hill tiles, unless ots boarding at least 4 hills.

On any map setting, and with a comparable city layout, no other civ can rake in as much GPT as Inca do.

Arachnaid Legacy is nowhere near as good as it used to to be before production during Golden ages got nerfed, though its still easilly a good top ten UA, neither that nor sacrificial captives really make the top 5 if you compare each UA under identical situations. 50% longer golden ages ... Anyone else can build Chichen Itza and have that. Sure in single player you would prioritize this wonder as Persia, but on Emperor / Deity you can still lose it several times, and GPs do a lot more for your empire either settled or with their abilities.

If you are using Arachnaid Legacy for any type of military rush, Ingenuity and sotjh will always get you to your planned rush techs faster than any other trait.

My top 5 would really be:

SOTJH
GAR
Ingenuity
Father Governs Child
Phonecian Heritage.

And an honorable mention goes to Long Count.

Regardless of which of those are actually better, they tend to provide the greatest economic boosts.
 
Came here to upvote AL, it seems that has already been done for me :)

I'm also surprised with the results. After playing Persia yesterday, I changed my mind. My top ten would be something close to this:

1. Achaemenid Legacy
2. Nobel Prize
3. Phoenician Heritage
4. Hellenic League
5. Siberian Riches
6. Sacrificial Captives
7. Patriarchate of Constantinople
8. Ingenuity
9. Dutch East India Company
10. Viking Fury
 
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