Unique Unit Elimination Thread

Camel archer 6
Mandekalu Cavalry 30
Cossack 13
Immortal 20
Legion 24
Foreign Legion 23
Longbowman 26
Naresuan elephant 27
Chu-Ko-Nu 38
Samurai 36
Janissary 39

sticking with my legion, and camel archer is only "relatively" weak as it's still a great unit.
 
Camel archer 6
Mandekalu Cavalry 30
Cossack 13
Immortal 20
Legion 22
Foreign Legion 24
Longbowman 26
Naresuan elephant 27
Chu-Ko-Nu 38
Samurai 36
Janissary 39

foreign > legion
 
Camel archer 7
Mandekalu Cavalry 30
Cossack 13
Immortal 20
Legion 20
Foreign Legion 24
Longbowman 24 (-2)
Naresuan elephant 28 (+1)
Chu-Ko-Nu 38
Samurai 36
Janissary 39
 
Camel archer 7
Mandekalu Cavalry 30
Cossack 11
Immortal 20
Legion 20
Foreign Legion 24
Longbowman 24 (-2)
Naresuan elephant 28 (+1)
Chu-Ko-Nu 38
Samurai 36
Janissary 40

Cossacks suffer from a very bad base unit...
 
Camel archer 7
Mandekalu Cavalry 30
Cossack 11
Immortal 20
Legion 20
Foreign Legion 25 (+1)
Longbowman 24
Naresuan elephant 28
Chu-Ko-Nu 38
Samurai 34 (-2)
Janissary 40
 
Oh, jeez, who's the weak link now...

I don't play w/the Cossacks, can't in fairness judge. argh, hard...

Let's ping a support unit. Cho-Ko-Nu is a good support unit, but it's got the typical support unit fragility. Camel Archers are getting pinged, but I think that might be because people are comparing it to the Keshiks, a DLC unit. Sorta unfair. Both Longbowmen and Camel Archers can stay out of trouble a bit better. Standoff wins over rate of fire. (maybe?)

(Plus, I think they're a leeetle high as things stand...)

And, of course, I just enjoy blitzing cities w/Mandys.

Camel archer 7
Mandekalu Cavalry 31
Cossack 11
Immortal 20
Legion 20
Foreign Legion 25 (+1)
Longbowman 24
Naresuan elephant 28
Chu-Ko-Nu 36
Samurai 34 (-2)
Janissary 40

Edit: in all these, it's more important who you ping than who you bump. Can someone make a case for Choko's? I just remember cutting a swath through them with blitz-enabled, half-strength Mandys a few weeks ago, but they're so high a lot of people must love them. (I'm partial to melee units until Arty comes down the pipe.)
 
So, let's compare the remaining units.

Camel archer (7) - Replaces the Knight. They have 3 less strength but can do the move foward, shoot, and retreat bit, with more effect and less strength then the DLC Mandys. Personally? I don't really like them. In general, more ranged units is bad, simply because when they upgrade to Cavalry, half of their promotions become useless. I predict they are next to cut.

Mandekalu Cavalry (31) - Same strength as the Knight, but they get a massive +33% bonus against cities instead of a -25% cut. Chivalry is harder to RA block then Steel, but more useful too, given that the two techs right under it - Economy and Education - are very important builder techs. Combined with the Songhai bonus for pillaging cities, you'll want to build a large Mandekalu army, a couple Longswords and/or Pikes, and then rush down cities like no tommorow. Upgraded Cav fare better against cities, actually, as well, but the ability is really corroded by the later negatives. I predict 4th.

Cossack 11 - Hmm. Cossacks get a bonus against wounded units. Can't say much about them b/c I haven't played with them significantly, but their UA doesn't seem like such a deal breaker in a pitched battle. Still, they must be monstrous at cleanup and sniping the wounded. I predict second-to-next to cut.

Immortal 20 - Get 2 heal in outside territory, 4 in friendly, which means that, as long as they're not facing down a teched-down or walled-out capital, they can camp down cities and shug off whatever the enemy throws down. Not an aggressive unit overall, but great for defending against over-militaristic AIs, esp. on Diety. Also have 1 more strength. I predict 8th.

Legion 20 - Get 2 more damage and can build roads. Classical rush with 5 Legions, nuff said. Like Swordsmen but better basically. I predict 6th.

Foreign Legion 25 - Aggressive Riflemen with a bonus on enemy territory. War war war, basically. Imperialism ftw! I predict 6th.

Longbowman 24 - Get 1 more range. Helpful for sniping units down, defending your territory. Insures they won't get run over by Knights without having their fair share. I predict 7th.

Naresuan elephant 28 - Super heavy Seige engines. I remember MadDjinn pointing out somewhere that it was mathematically pointless to upgrade them to Cavalry. :crazyeye: They have one less move but 4 more attack then Knights, AND get a 100% bonus against other mounted units. Almost break even with Pikes, actually. I predict 3rd.

Chu-Ko-Nu 36 - Double fire Crossbows that can thus actually attack cities with some affect, but are much frailer to direct attack. Also good at finishing critically wounded units. Build a whole bunch of them and enslave the world. Biggest con is the fact that their promotion path goes through the Ranged promos, which, once upgraded, are useless. I predict 5th.

Samurai 34 - Get Great Generals at 3x speed, also start with Shock I. With an Armory, that means you can get STARTING Samuri with Shock I, Shock II, and Shock III right out of the gate. The jump to 60 experience isn't so bad, another 6 battles I think, but jumping all the way to 100 is hard, something like 8 battles on top of that. That basically means that Samurai get March/Blitz a faster then regular Long-swords. Plus, they are in that critical area when you just have enough resources to start uber-warmongering. Plus, they form the backbone of your army for the rest of your game. Plus the Japanese UA pumps them up even more. Methinks, 2nd.

Janissary 40 - They heal fully when they chew down on another unit. They would be overpowered, 'xcept for the fact that the rest of the Ottomans is totally worthless :rolleyes: Jannies can smash through attacks again and again, without having to heal. The tradeoff is of course the fact that you have to hard-build them, because those pesky Musketmen don't upgrade from anything. Shucks. Obviously 1st.

Now to sit back and see how my predictions roll out. :popcorn:
 
Mandekalu Cavalry (31) - Same strength as the Knight, but they get a massive +33% bonus against cities instead of a -25% cut. Chivalry is harder to RA block then Steel, but more useful too, given that the two techs right under it - Economy and Education - are very important builder techs. Combined with the Songhai bonus for pillaging cities, you'll want to build a large Mandekalu army, a couple Longswords and/or Pikes, and then rush down cities like no tommorow. Upgraded Cav fare better against cities, actually, as well, but the ability is really corroded by the later negatives. I predict 4th.

Looks pretty accurate overall.

re: upgrading Mandys & "corroded" - yep, the fact that upgraded Cav's are a bit better vs. cities is almost irrelevant. (And a Mandy is better than Mandy->Cav vs. cities and doesn't have the "vs. mounted" negative.) It's another unit, like Naresan's Elephants, that you need to really think before upgrading to Cav. But then - ex-Mandy Tanks and Modern Armor, they're city-busters. Or were, because...

Unless I'm wrong, they nerfed Mandys in the last patch. Someone check me, but they dropped the city bonus to 10%. (Still a 43% swing above Knights, but a major downgrade.)

I was unhappy. :)

ps - again, someone check me, I've got a lot of edits to my files now, could have fat-fingered it myself.
 
the muslim cavalry do have +10%. that makes them 19.8 vs cities, or 23.4 with a gg, or 26.1 with gg + morale, or 32.4 with gg + morale + siege (via chariot archer) + adjacent friendly unit policy.

if you stack these multipliers cavalry do still end up a solid upgrade. even just with gg they end up at -3% vs cities, so 24.25 vs mandekalu's 23.4, and they cap out with all possible multipliers at 36.75... modern armor get up to 117.6. who needs gdrs?
 
That 33% to 10% nerf is what's making it worthwhile, Vexing. ie, since the last patch.

Even then, unless I have at least Professional Army, preferably Pentagon too, I'll still hold off on a case-by-case basis. The marginal combat power gain often isn't worth the $$ upgrade outlay. (switch from mandy-based to inf/arty based for awhile.)

Of course, unlike you guys I have long periods of peace. :) Waiting is more feasible for my playstyle.
 
Cossack 11 - Hmm. Cossacks get a bonus against wounded units. Can't say much about them b/c I haven't played with them significantly, but their UA doesn't seem like such a deal breaker in a pitched battle. Still, they must be monstrous at cleanup and sniping the wounded. I predict second-to-next to cut.


Try to Play Russia when you want Domination Next time. I'm playing Russia at King and I can say they are very good at defending cities from Infantry(remember that Infantry is from Industrial Era and Cossack is from Renaissance era). Just do a little damage,then send your cossacks to crush these units.It also works very well agaisnt artillery.It's a lame that many people underestimate this outstanding unit. and their UA is pretty decent if you lack iron or horse(it might happen at early eras,because the ai loves to ics everywhere). While with other civs you only have 2 iron to use in catapults,with russia you have 3 iron to use in catapults and 1 to use at meele or you can use all of them in catapults.
 
Genjikhan, what is the damaged unit bonus? Ie, can you load up a save game and hover the mouse over an enemy and tell us? All the civ says is "bonus", doesn't give us any detail, ie, no percentage value.

Also - that's a common thing, it's hard to have played every civ. I try not to ping them if I haven't played them, but it's just human nature if you're ignorant of a unit's benefits.
 
Legion 20 - Get 2 more damage and can build roads. Classical rush with 5 Legions, nuff said. Like Swordsmen but better basically. I predict 6th.

Foreign Legion 25 - Aggressive Riflemen with a bonus on enemy territory. War war war, basically. Imperialism ftw! I predict 6th.

How do you have two in 6th place?
 
Genjikhan, what is the damaged unit bonus? Ie, can you load up a save game and hover the mouse over an enemy and tell us? All the civ says is "bonus", doesn't give us any detail, ie, no percentage value.

Also - that's a common thing, it's hard to have played every civ. I try not to ping them if I haven't played them, but it's just human nature if you're ignorant of a unit's benefits.

+50% to wounded units. it means that the strengh of cossack goes from 25 to 37,5 when fighting a wounded unit. A Infantry has 35 strenght iirc. with other promotions and attacking them in plains,the damage will increase even more.
 
Camel archer 5
Mandekalu Cavalry 31
Cossack 11
Immortal 21
Legion 20
Foreign Legion 25
Longbowman 24
Naresuan elephant 28
Chu-Ko-Nu 36
Samurai 34
Janissary 40
 
Camel archer 5
Mandekalu Cavalry 31
Cossack 11
Immortal 19
Legion 20
Foreign Legion 25
Longbowman 24
Naresuan elephant 29
Chu-Ko-Nu 36
Samurai 34
Janissary 40
 
Camel archer 5
Mandekalu Cavalry 31
Cossack 11
Immortal 19
Legion 20
Foreign Legion 25
Longbowman 22 (-2)
Naresuan elephant 29
Chu-Ko-Nu 36
Samurai 35 (+1)
Janissary 40
 
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