Unique Unit Elimination Thread

[cpm4001]

N. Elephant: amazingly strong unit. It just... rapes the enemy's army. 25 strenght is huge for Medieval Era! Think of it as a stronger musketman with +1 movement and that has bonus against mounted units. Really, this is a tough one to kill, also, doesn't require horses, AFAIK. Not really boring, don't know what was that about.

The problem with the N. Elephant (I'm going to use your abbreviation, because I can't spell the first name properly) is that it doesn't fit in super well with how their UA "guides" Siam - the N. Elephant works fantastically for a mid-game aggressor, but with Siam you'll want to play a bit more diplomatically, taking full advantage of the benefits from City-States. If you're going for a Diplo victory, you're not going to want to annoy other Civs by attacking them, lest they kill you before you win.
So, the N. Elephant: Yeah, I shouldn't have described it as boring (it isn't when it's used, but I rarely do use it when playing Siam for the reasons given above), it's just kind of "mismatched" with Siam. More usable in my opinion if you get it gifted from a Militaristic City-State.

 

[Petiscator]

The problem with the N. Elephant (I'm going to use your abbreviation, because I can't spell the first name properly) is that it doesn't fit in super well with how their UA "guides" Siam - the N. Elephant works fantastically for a mid-game aggressor, but with Siam you'll want to play a bit more diplomatically, taking full advantage of the benefits from City-States. If you're going for a Diplo victory, you're not going to want to annoy other Civs by attacking them, lest they kill you before you win.
So, the N. Elephant: Yeah, I shouldn't have described it as boring (it isn't when it's used, but I rarely do use it when playing Siam for the reasons given above), it's just kind of "mismatched" with Siam. More usable in my opinion if you get it gifted from a Militaristic City-State.

Hmm, now I understand what you mean Yeah, it is true. But still, they are machines on defense as well, because of the unusually high strenght. Even then, when I play Siam, I usually look for a reason to use these, guys, even if I'm planning for diplomacy - I mean, sometimes Ramesses got the Forbidden Palace. I wouldn't go on a rampage, but I would definitely try to take a city or two. Well, it is a matter of playstile, I guess. I also like to get them from CS: back in GnK, my Byzantine game was entirely defended by an army of 5 or 6 N. Elephants. Those are some nasty beasts XD

 

[Matthew.]

Having a UU doesn't mean aggressor. Just a quick glance at Civs like Korea should be proof enough.

Siam has a solid defense all the way from medieval through industrial due to its UU. Can stand toe-to-toe with cavalry, and the 3 movement makes a significant difference for manipulating the battlefield against regular infantry and ranged units.

The idea is that a unit from the medieval era is solid enough to allow you to stick to the top of the tech tree and infrastructure while having adequate defense against opposing Renaissance and industrial military tech.

Works well for the AI, too. Siam is one of the better coded AI, purposely taking advantage of CS's (one of the more powerful strategies). If he begins to runaway in the mid-game, it is a pain to try and stop him with walls of elephant spam.

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

African Forest Elephant 18
B17 21
Battering Ram 23
Berber Cavalry 21
Berserker 17
Carolean 30
Cataphract 19 (22-3)
Chu-Ko-Nu 33
Companion Cavalry 18
Conquistador 23
Cossack 24
Dromon 5
Horse Archer 21
Hussar 22
Hwacha 24
Immortal 17
Impi 26
Jaguar 26 (25+1)
Janissary 25
Keshik 32
Legion 23
Longbowman 34
Minutemen 22
Mohawk Warrior 21
Musketeer 15
Naresuan's Elephant 20
Nau 19
Norwegian Ski Infantry 11
Pathfinder 26
Pictish Warrior 19
Samurai 9
Sea Beggar 24
Ship of the Line 27
Siege Tower 27
Sipahi 12
Tercio 23
Turtle Ship 11
War Elephant 9
Winged Hussar 26


Jaguar +1 - I've got the moooves like Jaguar, I've got the moooves like Jaguar-
Much greater to the Warrior. It would be a very crappy UU if not for the fact that units you upgrade from it keep ALL the promotions. Powerful promotions. Useful promotions. And they work great as a scout replacement - why build a scout (unless a lot of hills) when you can build another Jaguar?

Cataphract -3 - Why is this travesty so high up? It's basically a swordsman with +1 movement speed that doesn't give you anything on upgrade. Also it's with Byzantium, where you need to focus your early game on faith or deal with bad beliefs. Early game is, in other words, the Time When Cataphract Is Supposed To Be Used. It doesn't achieve anything special, it's just weak. Also, completely doesn't fit it's era (it being a knight replacement would fit much more, preferably one gotten at Theology instead of Monarchy).

Wanted to vote Dromon instead, but I believe it'll fall down next anyway, so I'll just start kicking the cataphract in hope others start doing the same.


Join mah crusade against Byzantium UU's, it's absolutely supported by the Pope. After they both leave the competition, you'll be able to proudly say "it was I that brought down the heretical tyranny of the daemonical Cataphract! All in the Holy Name of Sid Meier! Thanks to my accomplishments, after death I'll go to Eternal Civilizations, becoming one with the leaderheads that face future generations of players. And later on, alien players, after they take the Earth with Giant Death Robot spam"

It's all legit. You won't get excommunicated for that or anything, so don't fear boyos and get those crappy Byzantium uniques down! Eternal rewards await the courageous voters, and Civ damnation (with legions of Alexes and Ramkhamhaengs and other pleasant leaders waiting for the unruly there) or purgatory (with one Elizabeth constantly screaming at you to do the dishes and denouncing you for anything you do) is on the way of the Unholy Defenders of ByzantiUU. The vile Byzantiese uniques, both of them truly bad, unfitting and heavily overrated, shall fall, and I will be able to easily say - I saw it coming, and I myself foresaw, nay - machinated their demise.

 

[jlim201]

African Forest Elephant 18
B17 21
Battering Ram 23
Berber Cavalry 21
Berserker 17
Camel ArcherCamel Archer 29 These were left out for a few votes. I also upvoted it. It is a better Keshik, and everyone knows how good keshiks are.
Carolean 30
Cataphract 19
Chu-Ko-Nu 33
Companion Cavalry 18
Conquistador 23
Cossack 24
Dromon 5
Horse Archer 21
Hussar 22
Hwacha 24
Immortal 17
Impi 26
Jaguar 26
Janissary 25
Keshik 32
Legion 23
Longbowman 34
Minutemen 22
Mohawk Warrior 21
Musketeer 15
Naresuan's Elephant 21- A few of these can defend your entire empire for many years.
Nau 19
Norwegian Ski Infantry 11
Pathfinder 26
Pictish Warrior 19
Samurai 9
Sea Beggar 24
Ship of the Line 27
Siege Tower 27
Sipahi 12
Tercio 23
Turtle Ship 11
War Elephant 9
Winged Hussar 26

 

[VicRatlhead5199]

African Forest Elephant 18
B17 21
Battering Ram 23
Berber Cavalry 21
Berserker 17
Camel ArcherCamel Archer 29
Carolean 30
Cataphract 19
Chu-Ko-Nu 33
Companion Cavalry 18
Conquistador 23
Cossack 24
Dromon 5
Horse Archer 21
Hussar 22
Hwacha 24
Immortal 17
Impi 26
Jaguar 26
Janissary 25
Keshik 33-May not be as strong as the CA but the quick study ability will get them logistics quicker and their higher mobility allows them to use both attacks every turn while still being able to retreat.
Legion 23
Longbowman 34
Minutemen 22
Mohawk Warrior 21
Musketeer 15
Naresuan's Elephant 21
Nau 16 Just got done playing Portugal, these were really kind of boring. I usually only build a couple caravels in any game. Privateers are more useful.
Norwegian Ski Infantry 11
Pathfinder 26
Pictish Warrior 19
Samurai 9
Sea Beggar 24
Ship of the Line 27
Siege Tower 27
Sipahi 12
Tercio 23
Turtle Ship 11
War Elephant 9
Winged Hussar 26

 

[Peaceful Civ]

How do you play?

 

[VicRatlhead5199]

Just copy and paste the last post. Votes are +1 -3 and you can vote once a day. It's been pretty interesting to see what people think of the UUs. Looks like it's going to be between the CKNs and longbows with the Keshik as the dark horse. I'm just surprised to see which ones are being eliminated and which ones are hanging on.

 

[Jampine]

African Forest Elephant 18
B17 21
Battering Ram 23
Berber Cavalry 21
Berserker 17
Camel ArcherCamel Archer 29
Carolean 30
Cataphract 16- Oh look a horseman that more damage to cities.....umm? Who really uses horsemen, or any unit of that line for attacking? I'll use knights or tanks to snipe a city that on low health, but that about it. Also, if you're using horsemen, you're 90% likely to not be involved in any wars, nor will you be for some time.
Chu-Ko-Nu 33
Companion Cavalry 18
Conquistador 23
Cossack 24
Dromon 5
Horse Archer 21
Hussar 22
Hwacha 24
Immortal 17
Impi 26
Jaguar 26
Janissary 25
Keshik 33
Legion 23
Longbowman 34
Minutemen 22
Mohawk Warrior 21
Musketeer 15
Naresuan's Elephant 21
Nau 16
Norwegian Ski Infantry 11
Pathfinder 26
Pictish Warrior 19
Samurai 9
Sea Beggar 24
Ship of the Line 28- Yeah, we all know longbow men are awesome, but don't forget the SoL! Getting frigates first is a massive power boost to you, but getting ones with extra damage, speed sight and range, and that are CHEAPER?! yes please! (quit whining about England's lackluster UA, it has two of the best UU's in the game!)
Siege Tower 27
Sipahi 12
Tercio 23
Turtle Ship 11
War Elephant 9
Winged Hussar 26

 

[Pepo]

African Forest Elephant 18
B17 21
Battering Ram 23
Berber Cavalry 21
Berserker 17
Camel ArcherCamel Archer 29
Carolean 30
Cataphract 16
Chu-Ko-Nu 33
Companion Cavalry 18
Conquistador 23
Cossack 24
Dromon 5
Horse Archer 21
Hussar 22
Hwacha 24
Immortal 17
Impi 26+1=27 a really good replacemnt for the pikemen.the extra attack makes it gain upgrades really fast.and when you use it with zulu bonus,they are beast
Jaguar 26
Janissary 25
Keshik 33
Legion 23
Longbowman 34
Minutemen 22
Mohawk Warrior 21
Musketeer 15
Naresuan's Elephant 21
Nau 16
Norwegian Ski Infantry 11
Pathfinder 26
Pictish Warrior 19
Samurai 9-3=6 longswordmen mens are useless,they get obsolote to fast.and uu that replaces then are a waste
Sea Beggar 24
Ship of the Line 28
Siege Tower 27
Sipahi 12
Tercio 23
Turtle Ship 11
War Elephant 9
Winged Hussar 26

 

[chumchu]

African Forest Elephant 18
B17 21
Battering Ram 23
Berber Cavalry 21
Berserker 17
Camel Archer 29
Carolean 30
Cataphract 13
Chu-Ko-Nu 33
Companion Cavalry 18
Conquistador 23
Cossack 24
Dromon 6
Horse Archer 21
Hussar 22
Hwacha 24
Immortal 17
Impi 27
Jaguar 26
Janissary 25
Keshik 33
Legion 23
Longbowman 34
Minutemen 22
Mohawk Warrior 21
Musketeer 15
Naresuan's Elephant 21
Nau 16
Norwegian Ski Infantry 11
Pathfinder 26
Pictish Warrior 19
Samurai 6
Sea Beggar 24
Ship of the Line 28
Siege Tower 27
Sipahi 12
Tercio 23
Turtle Ship 11
War Elephant 9
Winged Hussar 26

Cataphract has no special promotions, is not that much better than horsemen with the lower speed, and is not on the tech path for Byzantines (theology beeline).

Dromon however is miles ahead of the trireme. Naval ranged units are so much more useful than naval melee units early on as they can attack land units, embarked units and cities without losing hp. Upgrades beautifully into high xp galleys and frigates.

 

[Sake]

African Forest Elephant 18
B17 21
Battering Ram 23
Berber Cavalry 21
Berserker 14
Camel Archer 29
Carolean 30
Cataphract 13
Chu-Ko-Nu 33
Companion Cavalry 18
Conquistador 23
Cossack 24
Dromon 6
Horse Archer 21
Hussar 22
Hwacha 24
Immortal 17
Impi 27
Jaguar 26
Janissary 25
Keshik 33
Legion 23
Longbowman 34
Minutemen 22
Mohawk Warrior 21
Musketeer 15
Naresuan's Elephant 21
Nau 16
Norwegian Ski Infantry 11
Pathfinder 26
Pictish Warrior 19
Samurai 6
Sea Beggar 24
Ship of the Line 28
Siege Tower 28
Sipahi 12
Tercio 23
Turtle Ship 11
War Elephant 9
Winged Hussar 26

Berserker: If extra movement would carry through upgrade, this unit would be top 10 unit. But since it doesn't, berserkers are pretty bad. 3 movement is very nice but longswordmen go obsolete so fast that you don't really get time to enjoy that ability all that much. You could go for steel and then research some other techs and not pick muskets, but if you are into war (which you should, since you are playing Danes) you're kinda gonna want to get chemistry at some point, and problem is, chemistry is behind gunpowder. Other thing is, delaying gunpowder will cause other civs that have gunpowder to have stronger infrantry than you do. Berserkers are cool units, but they lose their movement when upgrading to muskets.

Siege tower: Battering Ram 2.0 - enchanted edition. That's all to say about siege towers. They hit cities hard, give 50% bonus to your comb bows and other melee units and start with cover.

 

[TreYs]

African Forest Elephant 18
B17 21
Battering Ram 23
Berber Cavalry 21
Berserker 14
Camel Archer 29
Carolean 30
Cataphract 13
Chu-Ko-Nu 33
Companion Cavalry 18
Conquistador 23
Cossack 24
Dromon 6
Horse Archer 21
Hussar 22
Hwacha 24
Immortal 17
Impi 27
Jaguar 26
Janissary 25
Keshik 33
Legion 23
Longbowman 34
Minutemen 22
Mohawk Warrior 21
Musketeer 15
Naresuan's Elephant 21
Nau 16
Norwegian Ski Infantry 11
Pathfinder 26
Pictish Warrior 19
Samurai 3 It's by no means a bad unit, but it gets obsolete fairly quickly due to the musketman, and even still, it lies on an unconventional tech route in the early-mid game.
Sea Beggar 24
Ship of the Line 28
Siege Tower 29 Gotta love the attack on cities bonus this thing has, and it even carries over when upgraded. Also, with a barracks, you can acquire both cover promotions when building one.
Sipahi 12
Tercio 23
Turtle Ship 11
War Elephant 9
Winged Hussar 26

 

[Jamesson]

African Forest Elephant 18
B17 21
Battering Ram 23
Berber Cavalry 21
Berserker 14
Camel Archer 29
Carolean 30
Cataphract 13
Chu-Ko-Nu 33
Companion Cavalry 18
Conquistador 23
Cossack 24
Dromon 3
Horse Archer 21
Hussar 22
Hwacha 24
Immortal 17
Impi 27
Jaguar 26
Janissary 25
Keshik 33
Legion 23
Longbowman 34
Minutemen 22
Mohawk Warrior 21
Musketeer 15
Naresuan's Elephant 21
Nau 16
Norwegian Ski Infantry 11
Pathfinder 26
Pictish Warrior 19
Samurai 3
Sea Beggar 24
Ship of the Line 29
Siege Tower 29
Sipahi 12
Tercio 23
Turtle Ship 11
War Elephant 9
Winged Hussar 26

Maybe if the dromon was a galleass replacement it might be useful. As such, it comes too early and city attacks destroy it.

SOTL on the other hand is the best ship in the game. Getting to these first as England means every civ with a coastal capital goes down.

 

[TheLohoped]

African Forest Elephant 18
B17 21
Battering Ram 23
Berber Cavalry 21
Berserker 14
Camel Archer 29
Carolean 30
Cataphract 10
Chu-Ko-Nu 33
Companion Cavalry 18
Conquistador 23
Cossack 24
Dromon 4
Horse Archer 21
Hussar 22
Hwacha 24
Immortal 17
Impi 27
Jaguar 26
Janissary 25
Keshik 33
Legion 23
Longbowman 34
Minutemen 22
Mohawk Warrior 21
Musketeer 15
Naresuan's Elephant 21
Nau 16
Norwegian Ski Infantry 11
Pathfinder 26
Pictish Warrior 19
Samurai 3
Sea Beggar 24
Ship of the Line 29
Siege Tower 29
Sipahi 12
Tercio 23
Turtle Ship 11
War Elephant 9
Winged Hussar 26

Cataphract may be powerful but it suffers from horse resource requirement. Byzantines have much work to do at the beginning of the game so if you don't have horses in your capital - you may never have a cataphract in your game.

Dromon, however, is a beast! Build many of them early, fight with them while using them wisely to avoid lost units and by the time frigates arrive your ex-dromons will be the most experienced naval killing machines!

 

[MantaRevan]

African Forest Elephant 18
B17 21
Battering Ram 23
Berber Cavalry 21
Berserker 14
Camel Archer 29
Carolean 30
Cataphract 10
Chu-Ko-Nu 33
Companion Cavalry 18
Conquistador 23
Cossack 24
Dromon 4
Horse Archer 21
Hussar 22
Hwacha 24
Immortal 17
Impi 27
Jaguar 26
Janissary 25
Keshik 33
Legion 23
Longbowman 34
Minutemen 22
Mohawk Warrior 21
Musketeer 15
Naresuan's Elephant 21
Nau 13
Norwegian Ski Infantry 11
Pathfinder 27
Pictish Warrior 19
Samurai 3
Sea Beggar 24
Ship of the Line 29
Siege Tower 29
Sipahi 12
Tercio 23
Turtle Ship 11
War Elephant 9
Winged Hussar 26

I find difficulty understanding how the Nau's one-time gold bonus justifies it's own maintenance, I mean if you're building caravels anyway then I guess it's whatever, but the change is pretty underwhelming.

Okay seriously, who wouldn't want a scout with the strength of a warrior that can pick his bonuses and upgrade to a composite bowman? These guys can help you found a pantheon or a religion, give you a cultural boost, composites as early a turn 1, free techs, you name it.

 

[redwings1340]

African Forest Elephant 18
B17 21
Battering Ram 23
Berber Cavalry 21
Berserker 14
Camel Archer 29
Carolean 30
Cataphract 7 - From what I can tell, this thing gets no promotions on upgrade, moves slower than a horseman, and is a replacement for a terrible unit. A horseman is good at pillaging and really not much else, and this thing is even worse at that! I forgot this unit existed before now, but it looks pretty terrible to me.
Chu-Ko-Nu 33
Companion Cavalry 18
Conquistador 23
Cossack 24
Dromon 4
Horse Archer 21
Hussar 22
Hwacha 24
Immortal 17
Impi 27
Jaguar 26
Janissary 25
Keshik 33
Legion 23
Longbowman 34
Minutemen 22
Mohawk Warrior 21
Musketeer 15
Naresuan's Elephant 21
Nau 13
Norwegian Ski Infantry 11
Pathfinder 28 - Useful every game as long as ruins are on. It gives you a huge early advantage which can snowball throughout the entire game.
Pictish Warrior 19
Samurai 3
Sea Beggar 24
Ship of the Line 29
Siege Tower 29
Sipahi 12
Tercio 23
Turtle Ship 11
War Elephant 9
Winged Hussar 26

 

[Js_9001]

African Forest Elephant 18
B17 21
Battering Ram 23
Berber Cavalry 21
Berserker 14
Camel Archer 29
Carolean 30
Cataphract 7
Chu-Ko-Nu 33
Companion Cavalry 18
Conquistador 23
Cossack 24
Dromon 1
Horse Archer 21
Hussar 22
Hwacha 24
Immortal 17
Impi 27
Jaguar 26
Janissary 25
Keshik 34
Legion 23
Longbowman 34
Minutemen 22
Mohawk Warrior 21
Musketeer 15
Naresuan's Elephant 21
Nau 13
Norwegian Ski Infantry 11
Pathfinder 28
Pictish Warrior 19
Samurai 0
Sea Beggar 24
Ship of the Line 30
Siege Tower 29
Sipahi 12
Tercio 23
Turtle Ship 11
War Elephant 9
Winged Hussar 26

Fixed the Dromon and Keshik numbers from the last post (one before the last now), they were wrong.

Ship of the Line +1: Frigates are already really strong, and these are even stronger. It's easy to take cities with 4 of these and a caravel/ironclad/privateer.

Samurai -3: Its abilities aren't very good, and it replaces the longswordsmam, which I almost never use since muskets come so soon after them.

 

[redwings1340]

whoops, I used the UA elimination rules (put -3 instead of -2). The Cataphract should be at 8 instead of 7

 

[DarthSheldonPhD]

Question: Did they fix the OP "ranged-mounts-that-can-retreat(move after attack)" in BNW? If not, evaluation of UU's is easy: on a scale from 1 to 100:

Camel Archer = 100
Keshik = 98
Everything else = 5 or less