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Unique Units elimination thread

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Tabarnak, Aug 27, 2012.

  1. Mesix

    Mesix One of Porg

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2006
    Messages:
    4,359
    Location:
    Ahch-To
    Atlatlist 12 (-2)
    Ballista 15
    Battering Ram 20
    Berserker 14
    Camel Archer 16
    Carolean 27
    Cataphract 5
    Chu-Ko-Nu 37 (+1)
    Companion Cavalry 24
    Conquistador 17
    Dromon 10
    Foreign Legion 19
    Horse Archer 23
    Hussar 16
    Hwach'a 12
    Immortal 13
    Jaguar 24
    Janissary 33
    Keshik 32
    Landsknecht 14
    Legion 23
    Longbowman 38
    Minutemen 29
    Mohawk Warrior 23
    Musketeer 15
    Naresuan's Elephant 14
    Pictish Warrior 13
    Samurai 13
    Sea Beggar 34
    Ship of the Line 29
    Tercio 18
    War Elephant 22

    Atlatlist is pretty lame. It comes earlier so can be used to rush an enemy earlier, but the lower :c5strength: means that they do not last long and require more units to siege a city. Not to mention that the the CB comes very quickly and makes them obsolete. Really, the CB addition to G&K is a pretty lame design flaw IMHO. Early archery units should be tough to defend up until the Medieval period and Archery UU should be good units for a longer period of the game (I'm looking at you Bowman).

    The Chinese CKN is simply a beast. 2 shots leads to quick promotions. It was already strong, but with G&K providing a viable promotion path in later eras, the CKN is simply amazing!
     
  2. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak R.I.P.

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,960
    Location:
    Québec
    Atlatlist 11
    Ballista 15
    Battering Ram 20
    Berserker 14
    Camel Archer 16
    Carolean 27
    Cataphract 5
    Chu-Ko-Nu 37
    Companion Cavalry 24
    Conquistador 17
    Dromon 10
    Foreign Legion 19
    Horse Archer 23
    Hussar 16
    Hwach'a 12
    Immortal 13
    Jaguar 24
    Janissary 33
    Keshik 32
    Landsknecht 14
    Legion 23
    Longbowman 38
    Minutemen 29
    Mohawk Warrior 23
    Musketeer 15
    Naresuan's Elephant 14
    Pictish Warrior 13
    Samurai 13
    Sea Beggar 34
    Ship of the Line 29
    Tercio 18
    War Elephant 22
     
  3. Mesix

    Mesix One of Porg

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2006
    Messages:
    4,359
    Location:
    Ahch-To
    Oh...we are deducting 3 points...sorry

    Thanks for the correction.
     
  4. duhu

    duhu Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2011
    Messages:
    91
    Atlatlist 11
    Ballista 15
    Battering Ram 20
    Berserker 14
    Camel Archer 16
    Carolean 27
    Cataphract 5
    Chu-Ko-Nu 37
    Companion Cavalry 24
    Conquistador 17
    Dromon 10
    Foreign Legion 19
    Horse Archer 23
    Hussar 16
    Hwach'a 12
    Immortal 13
    Jaguar 25
    Janissary 33
    Keshik 32
    Landsknecht 14
    Legion 23
    Longbowman 38
    Minutemen 29
    Mohawk Warrior 23
    Musketeer 15
    Naresuan's Elephant 11
    Pictish Warrior 13
    Samurai 13
    Sea Beggar 34
    Ship of the Line 29
    Tercio 18
    War Elephant 22

    Jag gets bonus in woods and healing bonus, for a warrior that's pretty good. Makes for a good very early rush. The elephant gets a bonus vs mounts and a movement penalty. The bonus vs mounts is pointless. We have spearmen and pikemen for that.
     
  5. Carl5872

    Carl5872 Prince

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2008
    Messages:
    772
    Location:
    Mentor, Ohio
    Atlatlist 11
    Ballista 15
    Battering Ram 20
    Berserker 11 (-3)
    Camel Archer 16
    Carolean 27
    Cataphract 5
    Chu-Ko-Nu 37
    Companion Cavalry 24
    Conquistador 17
    Dromon 10
    Foreign Legion 19
    Horse Archer 23
    Hussar 16
    Hwach'a 12
    Immortal 13
    Jaguar 25
    Janissary 33
    Keshik 33 (+1)
    Landsknecht 14
    Legion 23
    Longbowman 38
    Minutemen 29
    Mohawk Warrior 23
    Musketeer 15
    Naresuan's Elephant 11
    Pictish Warrior 13
    Samurai 13
    Sea Beggar 34
    Ship of the Line 29
    Tercio 18
    War Elephant 22

    The Berserker just doesn't do anything for me. Pillaging is weak compared to just being able to hit harder. The gold from pillaging is not nearly worth the time you must spend rebuilding a city after its captured. Also the movement from water to land costing 1 point only is nice, but again I would prefer something that hits harder or fires from farther away.

    Now Keshik! That's what I'm talking about! He hits and has the ability to run after that. Gets promotions faster, and when he gets to logistics or the +1 range then they become obscene. They can even go toe to toe with units a tech level ahead.
     
  6. Gucumatz

    Gucumatz JS, secretly Rod Serling

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2011
    Messages:
    6,181
    Just a quick note Mesix - the atlatlist doesn't have lower str than other archers. It is slightly cheaper to build/buy than the archer it replaces.

    But yea I can understand the dislike of the Atlatlist
     
  7. Gucumatz

    Gucumatz JS, secretly Rod Serling

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2011
    Messages:
    6,181
    Atlatlist 11
    Ballista 15
    Battering Ram 20
    Berserker 11
    Camel Archer 17 (+1) This unit shouldn't be anywhere under 20 points. It is basically a Keshik (it has had its movement increased, str increased, but most importantly it is on a more balanced civ). The Camel Archer is a great unit - and while shouldn't be as high as the Keshik shouldn't be this low
    Carolean 27
    Cataphract 5
    Chu-Ko-Nu 37
    Companion Cavalry 24
    Conquistador 17
    Dromon 10
    Foreign Legion 19
    Horse Archer 23
    Hussar 16
    Hwach'a 12
    Immortal 13
    Jaguar 25
    Janissary 33
    Keshik 33
    Landsknecht 14
    Legion 23
    Longbowman 38
    Minutemen 29
    Mohawk Warrior 23
    Musketeer 15
    Naresuan's Elephant 11
    Pictish Warrior 13
    Samurai 10 (-3) Helping expediate the Samurai a bit down. Since the berserker is dropping quickly might as well knock out the other longswordmen replacement. The Berserker Sea Beggar 34
    Ship of the Line 29
    Tercio 18
    War Elephant 22
     
  8. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak R.I.P.

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,960
    Location:
    Québec
    Atlatlist 11
    Ballista 15
    Battering Ram 20
    Berserker 11
    Camel Archer 17
    Carolean 27
    Cataphract 5
    Chu-Ko-Nu 37
    Companion Cavalry 24
    Conquistador 17
    Dromon 10
    Foreign Legion 19
    Horse Archer 23
    Hussar 16
    Hwach'a 12
    Immortal 13
    Jaguar 25
    Janissary 33
    Keshik 33
    Landsknecht 15
    Legion 23
    Longbowman 38
    Minutemen 29
    Mohawk Warrior 23
    Musketeer 12
    Naresuan's Elephant 11
    Pictish Warrior 13
    Samurai 10
    Sea Beggar 34
    Ship of the Line 29
    Tercio 18
    War Elephant 22

    Musketeer : Ranged units still shining during that time. Extra strength is nice but really not powerful enough.

    Landsknecht : Anyone who never tried this UU rush should really try this at least once...
     
  9. kamikazees

    kamikazees Warlord

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2012
    Messages:
    266
    Atlatlist 11
    Ballista 15
    Battering Ram 20
    Berserker 11
    Camel Archer 17
    Carolean 27
    Cataphract 5
    Chu-Ko-Nu 37
    Companion Cavalry 24
    Conquistador 17
    Dromon 10
    Foreign Legion 19
    Horse Archer 23
    Hussar 16
    Hwach'a 12
    Immortal 13
    Jaguar 25
    Janissary 33
    Keshik 33
    Landsknecht 15
    Legion 23
    Longbowman 38
    Minutemen 29
    Mohawk Warrior 24
    Musketeer 12
    Naresuan's Elephant 11
    Pictish Warrior 13
    Samurai 10
    Sea Beggar 34
    Ship of the Line 29
    Tercio 18
    War Elephant 19

    Mohawk Warrior: In one of my first games, as France, I saw the Iroquis had massed a whole bunch of these guys. I DoW'd them, thinking at first they were just warrior replacements. When he wiped my ranged units I switched to thinking if I found his iron deposits I could cripple all his melee units... I never made that mistake again.

    War Elephant: 25% more :c5production: for a ranged unit with 1 less :c5moves: that upgrades to a melee unit. No thanks.
     
  10. Seabastian Civ

    Seabastian Civ King

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2012
    Messages:
    608
    Atlatlist 8 (-3) A ranged warrior, that takes a punch like an archer. And you can get regular archers faster than other civs thanks to Pyramids? Pass. Ballista 15
    Battering Ram 20
    Berserker 11
    Camel Archer 17
    Carolean 27
    Cataphract 5
    Chu-Ko-Nu 37
    Companion Cavalry 24
    Conquistador 17
    Dromon 10
    Foreign Legion 19
    Horse Archer 23
    Hussar 16
    Hwach'a 12
    Immortal 13
    Jaguar 25
    Janissary 34 (+1) Janissaries crush through units when they show up on the scene, plus they can power through a barrage of ranged hits, crack the crossbowmen who were shooting them, and full heal. Unstoppable renaissance unit. Keshik 33
    Landsknecht 15
    Legion 23
    Longbowman 38
    Minutemen 29
    Mohawk Warrior 24
    Musketeer 12
    Naresuan's Elephant 11
    Pictish Warrior 13
    Samurai 10
    Sea Beggar 34
    Ship of the Line 29
    Tercio 18
    War Elephant 19
     
  11. Awsome Sause

    Awsome Sause Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2012
    Messages:
    68
    Atlatlist 8
    Ballista 15
    Battering Ram 20
    Berserker 11
    Camel Archer 17
    Carolean 27
    Cataphract 5
    Chu-Ko-Nu 37
    Companion Cavalry 24
    Conquistador 17
    Dromon 11
    Foreign Legion 19
    Horse Archer 23
    Hussar 16
    Hwach'a 12
    Immortal 13
    Jaguar 25
    Janissary 34
    Keshik 33
    Landsknecht 15
    Legion 23
    Longbowman 38
    Minutemen 29
    Mohawk Warrior 24
    Musketeer 12
    Naresuan's Elephant 11
    Pictish Warrior 13
    Samurai 7
    Sea Beggar 34
    Ship of the Line 29
    Tercio 18
    War Elephant 19

    Samurai: Not a huge improvement over the long sword.

    Dromon: I like early warfare and having such an early ranged melee unit makes a big difference.
     
  12. Petiscator

    Petiscator King

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2012
    Messages:
    785
    Location:
    Brazil
    Atlatlist 8
    Ballista 15
    Battering Ram 20
    Berserker 11
    Camel Archer 17
    Carolean 27
    Cataphract 6
    Chu-Ko-Nu 37
    Companion Cavalry 24
    Conquistador 17
    Dromon 11
    Foreign Legion 19
    Horse Archer 23
    Hussar 16
    Hwach'a 12
    Immortal 13
    Jaguar 25
    Janissary 34
    Keshik 33
    Landsknecht 15
    Legion 23
    Longbowman 38
    Minutemen 29
    Mohawk Warrior 21
    Musketeer 12
    Naresuan's Elephant 11
    Pictish Warrior 13
    Samurai 7
    Sea Beggar 34
    Ship of the Line 29
    Tercio 18
    War Elephant 19

    Ok, Cataphracts might not be the best unit in the game, but I think they are awesome. Having +1 strenght than a swordsman and +3 strenght than the regular horseman, its defensive bonuses make it a huge fast fortress! This awesomely flavoured unit is just perfect for me, as I don't normally find a good use for mounted units.

    My dislike goes for the Mohawk Warrior, because, although the Woodsman + no strategic needed are nice, I find them one of the worst units of the above.
     
  13. pensivepeppers

    pensivepeppers Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2012
    Messages:
    66
    Atlatlist 8
    Ballista 15
    Battering Ram 20
    Berserker 11
    Camel Archer 18 (+1)
    Carolean 27
    Cataphract 6
    Companion Cavalry 24
    Conquistador 17
    Dromon 11
    Foreign Legion 19
    Horse Archer 23
    Hussar 16
    Hwach'a 12
    Immortal 13
    Jaguar 25
    Janissary 34
    Keshik 33
    Landsknecht 15
    Legion 23
    Longbowman 38
    Minutemen 29
    Mohawk Warrior 21
    Musketeer 12
    Naresuan's Elephant 11
    Pictish Warrior 13
    Samurai 4 (-3)
    Sea Beggar 34
    Ship of the Line 29
    Tercio 18
    War Elephant 19

    Camel Archer = Keshik on steroids.
    Samurai = wimpy wimpy wimpy
     
  14. duhu

    duhu Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2011
    Messages:
    91
    Atlatlist 8
    Ballista 15
    Battering Ram 20
    Berserker 11
    Camel Archer 18
    Carolean 27
    Cataphract 6
    Chu-Ko-Nu- 34
    Companion Cavalry 24
    Conquistador 17
    Dromon 11
    Foreign Legion 19
    Horse Archer 23
    Hussar 16
    Hwach'a 12
    Immortal 13
    Jaguar 25
    Janissary 34
    Keshik 33
    Landsknecht 16
    Legion 23
    Longbowman 38
    Minutemen 29
    Mohawk Warrior 21
    Musketeer 12
    Naresuan's Elephant 11
    Pictish Warrior 13
    Samurai 4
    Sea Beggar 34
    Ship of the Line 29
    Tercio 18
    War Elephant 19

    The Chu I feel is a bit OP to the point where it becomes boring to use. More and better Great generals, two attacks, more promotions= ridiculous, especially late game. The Landsknecht gets my vote for being cheap, and if you go straight to Chivalry you can just spawn those things like crazy for a quick large army of decent strength.
     
  15. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak R.I.P.

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,960
    Location:
    Québec
    Atlatlist 8
    Ballista 15
    Battering Ram 20
    Berserker 11
    Camel Archer 18
    Carolean 27
    Cataphract 6
    Chu-Ko-Nu- 34
    Companion Cavalry 24
    Conquistador 17
    Dromon 11
    Foreign Legion 19
    Horse Archer 23
    Hussar 16
    Hwach'a 12
    Immortal 13
    Jaguar 25
    Janissary 34
    Keshik 33
    Landsknecht 16
    Legion 23
    Longbowman 38
    Minutemen 30
    Mohawk Warrior 21
    Musketeer 12
    Naresuan's Elephant 11
    Pictish Warrior 13
    Samurai 4
    Sea Beggar 34
    Ship of the Line 29
    Tercio 15
    War Elephant 19

    Tercio : 50% against mounted units? But who fear mounted units? Keshiks and Camels? And how do you catch them if they retreat hmm? Downvote!

    Minutemen : Free movement in rough terrain. Now i will catch some horse units! Give march to them and conquer!
     
  16. Seabastian Civ

    Seabastian Civ King

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2012
    Messages:
    608
    Atlatlist 8
    Ballista 15
    Battering Ram 20
    Berserker 11
    Camel Archer 18
    Carolean 28 (+1) Love these guys, and they upgrade oh so well. Riflemen + March. GW + March. Infantry + March. Mech Inf. + March. Those are all rock-solid offensive units.
    Cataphract 6
    Chu-Ko-Nu- 34
    Companion Cavalry 24
    Conquistador 17
    Dromon 11
    Foreign Legion 19
    Horse Archer 23
    Hussar 16
    Hwach'a 12
    Immortal 13
    Jaguar 25
    Janissary 34
    Keshik 33
    Landsknecht 16
    Legion 23
    Longbowman 38
    Minutemen 30
    Mohawk Warrior 21
    Musketeer 12
    Naresuan's Elephant 11
    Pictish Warrior 13
    Samurai 1 (-3) Steel comes too late, Samurai don't upgrade well, and don't have any meaningful promotions. Plus, this unit seems best if you spam it, whereas real samurai were the noble elite. Doesn't make sense.
    Sea Beggar 34
    Ship of the Line 29
    Tercio 15
    War Elephant 19
     
  17. Vopros

    Vopros Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2012
    Messages:
    7
    Atlatlist 8
    Ballista 15
    Battering Ram 20
    Berserker 11
    Camel Archer 18
    Carolean 28
    Cataphract 6
    Chu-Ko-Nu- 34
    Companion Cavalry 24
    Conquistador 17
    Dromon 11
    Foreign Legion 19
    Horse Archer 23
    Hussar 16
    Hwach'a 12
    Immortal 13
    Jaguar 25
    Janissary 34
    Keshik 33
    Landsknecht 17 Cheap and strong
    Legion 23
    Longbowman 38
    Minutemen 30
    Mohawk Warrior 21
    Musketeer 12
    Naresuan's Elephant 11
    Pictish Warrior 13
    Samurai 0 Nothing interesting about this unit
    Sea Beggar 34
    Ship of the Line 29
    Tercio 15
    War Elephant 19
     
  18. glaivemaster

    glaivemaster Prince

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2008
    Messages:
    463
    Location:
    Leeds, United Kingdom
    Atlatlist 8
    Ballista 15
    Battering Ram 20
    Berserker 11
    Camel Archer 18
    Carolean 28
    Cataphract 6
    Chu-Ko-Nu- 34
    Companion Cavalry 24
    Conquistador 17
    Dromon 11
    Foreign Legion 19
    Horse Archer 23
    Hussar 16
    Hwach'a 12
    Immortal 13
    Jaguar 25
    Janissary 35 (+1) Let's push this guy to the top, where he should be.
    Keshik 33
    Landsknecht 14 (-3) honestly I find it dull. Dull dull dull.
    Legion 23
    Longbowman 38
    Minutemen 30
    Mohawk Warrior 21
    Musketeer 12
    Naresuan's Elephant 11
    Pictish Warrior 13
    Sea Beggar 34
    Ship of the Line 29
    Tercio 15
    War Elephant 19
     
  19. maurcus

    maurcus Warlord

    Joined:
    May 24, 2012
    Messages:
    245
    Atlatlist 8
    Ballista 15
    Battering Ram 17 (-3) utterly useless for my strategies
    Berserker 11
    Camel Archer 18
    Carolean 28
    Cataphract 6
    Chu-Ko-Nu- 34
    Companion Cavalry 24
    Conquistador 17
    Dromon 11
    Foreign Legion 19
    Horse Archer 23
    Hussar 16
    Hwach'a 12
    Immortal 13
    Jaguar 25
    Janissary 35
    Keshik 33
    Landsknecht 14
    Legion 23
    Longbowman 38
    Minutemen 31 (+1) ever gotten one with woodsman it gets four moves on forest in other words as fast as on a road.
    Mohawk Warrior 21
    Musketeer 12
    Naresuan's Elephant 11
    Pictish Warrior 13
    Sea Beggar 34
    Ship of the Line 29
    Tercio 15
    War Elephant 19
     
  20. Infiltrator

    Infiltrator Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2009
    Messages:
    293
    Atlatlist 8
    Ballista 15
    Battering Ram 17
    Berserker 11
    Camel Archer 18
    Carolean 28
    Cataphract 3
    Chu-Ko-Nu- 35
    Companion Cavalry 24
    Conquistador 17
    Dromon 11
    Foreign Legion 19
    Horse Archer 23
    Hussar 16
    Hwach'a 12
    Immortal 13
    Jaguar 25
    Janissary 35
    Keshik 33
    Landsknecht 14
    Legion 23
    Longbowman 38
    Minutemen 31
    Mohawk Warrior 21
    Musketeer 12
    Naresuan's Elephant 11
    Pictish Warrior 13
    Sea Beggar 34
    Ship of the Line 29
    Tercio 15
    War Elephant 19

    Cataphract does not have enough bonuses to offset his weaknesses. You get horses for the speed, not defensive bonuses. Even if he didn't move more slowly, the bonus str is negligable and his specialties do not carry over, which means once his time is gone you are left with nothing of value to pass onto further upgrades.

    Chu-Ko-Nu is top 3 easily after G&K. Amazing on both defense and offense, skyrocketing through promotions, not even fast units can stop you once you reach critical mass with them.
     

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