Unique Units elimination thread

[Seabastian Civ]

Camel Archer 19
Carolean 18
Chu-Ko-Nu 42 I accidently said 2 but i only added 1.
Janissary 43
Keshik 28
Longbowman 39
Minutemen 29
Ship of the Line 18

 

[Crafty Bison]

Camel Archer 19
Carolean 18
Chu-Ko-Nu 38
Janissary 43
Keshik 29
Longbowman 39
Minutemen 29
Ship of the Line 18

CKN - I'd like it if it wasn't a lot weaker than a crossbowman (hidden by UA). My core crossbows get logistics at about the time of upgrade anyway, so CKNs can be translated directly to a much weaker longbow in this situation. Might even prefer the standard crossbow lineage for my old units. OK not quite, but it's fairly close.

Keshik - Too fast. And kites. On land. Best blitzkrieg unit in the game. Not fair on everyone else.

 

[Dreadnought]

Camel Archer 19
Carolean 18
Chu-Ko-Nu 38
Janissary 43
Keshik 28
Longbowman 39
Minutemen 30 (+1)
Ship of the Line 14 (-4)

SotL: The weakest of the remaining UUs, I'm afraid.

Minuteman: Free Drill I makes buying them practical, and the mobility bonus to take important terrain during a battle is invaluable.

 

[mintcandy]

CKN - I'd like it if it wasn't a lot weaker than a crossbowman (hidden by UA). My core crossbows get logistics at about the time of upgrade anyway, so CKNs can be translated directly to a much weaker longbow in this situation. Might even prefer the standard crossbow lineage for my old units. OK not quite, but it's fairly close.

Chu Ko Nu were a lot less desirable in vanilla for this reason. Namely, that their weakness compared to Crossbows compounded with the fact that they upgraded directly into a melee unit.

When playing as the Chinese, I don't pick up Logistics for my Archer units, because I know I'll get it for free when I upgrade them. It allows my experienced Chinese Archers to be a lot more survivable, for what it's worth.

Ordinarily, I'd upvote the Chu Ko Nu, but I've already voted for or against all the remaining units and I really don't like voting again.

 

[Dogmouth]

Camel Archer 19
Carolean 18
Chu-Ko-Nu 39 (+1)
Janissary 43
Keshik 28
Longbowman 39
Minutemen 30
Ship of the Line 10 (-4)

CKNs basically get double experience straight out of the gate. You should be able to have CKNs with range way before you have Longbowmen with logistics. I don't care that your upgraded units might already have tons of experience. You should be churning out new CKNs in a way that you never did with compound bowmen. In a recent game as China, I had 9 CKNs with range and logistics when I made the transition to gats. Three of those CKNs also had march. These sorts of numbers are not unusual. I've never had anything like that as England.

SoL is a great ship, but it's not a game changer. Frigates by themselves do the trick well enough.

 

[Crafty Bison]

Chu Ko Nu were a lot less desirable in vanilla for this reason. Namely, that their weakness compared to Crossbows compounded with the fact that they upgraded directly into a melee unit.

When playing as the Chinese, I don't pick up Logistics for my Archer units, because I know I'll get it for free when I upgrade them. It allows my experienced Chinese Archers to be a lot more survivable, for what it's worth.

Ordinarily, I'd upvote the Chu Ko Nu, but I've already voted for or against all the remaining units and I really don't like voting again.

Yes they got stronger with GnK which was why I only started downvoting CKNs in the last 10.

You didn't pick logistics but you could have if you needed. Compared to the crossbowman CKN would still get an extra promotion, but it would be translated (probably to range, see longbowman).


Usually most civ gets lots of archers to counter early rushes, and then goes comp bowmen heavy cos it's great to get early rushes, after which the unit distribution can balance out. it's a personal preference that I like balanced armies by the mid/late game and continuing with china yet again with churning out the crossbowmen throughout the reneissance as well doesn't feel right to me. Just a personal preference. (Yes I would prefer for comp bowmen to be weaker (y they remove the cities penalty for ranged?), but that's a little off topic).

 

[Petiscator]

Camel Archer 19
Carolean 18
Chu-Ko-Nu 39
Janissary 44
Keshik 28
Longbowman 39
Minutemen 26
Ship of the Line 10

Janissary: the heal upon kill is awesome, so is the +25% bonus on attack

Minutemen: It is good, I just find it the worse unit on this list

 

[Tabarnak]

Camel Archer 19
Carolean 18
Chu-Ko-Nu 39
Janissary 44
Keshik 29
Longbowman 39
Minutemen 26
Ship of the Line 6

Time for the last sea unit to get out from the list. Great run for the SotL but it's time to go sleep now. Keshik rules the flatlands. ''Pangaeaesque'' unit

 

[Snoopaloop]

Camel Archer 19
Carolean 18
Chu-Ko-Nu 39
Janissary 44
Keshik 29
Longbowman 39
Minutemen 27
Ship of the Line 2

-4 SotL - First the dromon, then the beggar, lastly it's time to rid the list of sea units. A great unit, but not as useful as any of these land units.

+1 Minuteman - I'de take the minuteman over the other musket/rifle line units left. I find the extra mobility the most valuable. Pillaging those hill tiles will be a nice bonus after the patch

 

[Skibbi]

Camel Archer 19
Carolean 18
Chu-Ko-Nu 39
Janissary 44
Keshik 21 As I said before, weaker and as fast as companion cavalry! And if Companion Cavalry strikes first, it's all over!
Longbowman 40 Extra range makes it a killer if it can keep the enemy at a distance. And a Gattling Gun or Machine Gun with 2 range would be awesome!
Minutemen 27
Ship of the Line 2 Sorry, Ship of the line! Your time has come. If I upvote it and someone down votes it, you're gone!

 

[El Caballerion]

Camel Archer 19
Carolean 19 (+1)
Chu-Ko-Nu 39
Janissary 44
Keshik 29
Longbowman 39
Minutemen 27
Ship of the Line 0 (-4)

I killed the Dromon. I will kill the SotL. Naval units are not as important as land in most maps. Lo siento...

Caroleons are actually kinda nice. Around the time they come in is when I usually have an excess of gold to spend on spamming units and dominating. Before then, I usually turtle and stay peaceful.

 

[mintcandy]

Keshik As I said before, weaker and as fast as companion cavalry! And if Companion Cavalry strikes first, it's all over!

That's a pretty big if.

El Caballerion's votes

Camel Archer 19 - 4 = 15
Carolean 19 + 1 = 20
Chu-Ko-Nu 39
Janissary 44
Keshik 29
Longbowman 39
Minutemen 27

Downvote: I love you, Camel Archer, but you only have 4 movement points a turn (which makes Logistics much less desirable for the Camel Archer) and NO experience bonus. In my mind, that makes you inferior to the Keshik, despite your greater Ranged Strength and Combat Strength. The weakness is even more pronounced in vanilla, when you only have 3 movement points a turn. I'd much rather have 3 movement points to move in and out of range than 2.

Upvote: Even though I've never played Gods and Kings, March is a very expensive promotion to acquire, especially for melee units that just can't gain experience at the same rate that ranged units can. It's a promotion that lessens downtime between city assaults and makes a meat shield's gradual advance toward an enemy city much more survivable. I think I've made my case. Yay for Caroleans, although I'd have upvoted it sooner if it was a Musketman or Pikeman replacement.

 

[Snoopaloop]

Camel Archer 15
Carolean 20
Chu-Ko-Nu 39
Janissary 44
Keshik 25
Longbowman 40
Minutemen 27

Skibbi's votes, though he subtracted a bit more than 4 from the Keshik accidently.

 

[Udey1]

Camel Archer 19
Carolean 18
Chu-Ko-Nu 39
Janissary 44
Keshik 21 As I said before, weaker and as fast as companion cavalry! And if Companion Cavalry strikes first, it's all over!
Longbowman 40 Extra range makes it a killer if it can keep the enemy at a distance. And a Gattling Gun or Machine Gun with 2 range would be awesome!
Minutemen 27
Ship of the Line 2 Sorry, Ship of the line! Your time has come. If I upvote it and someone down votes it, you're gone!

I'm sorry, have you played as mongols yet?

 

[Skibbi]

Played Mongols scenario... it got pwned by a spearman belonging to a city state!

 

[mintcandy]

Played Mongols scenario... it got pwned by a spearman belonging to a city state!

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The whole point of Keshiks is that they can move after making a ranged attack. Keshiks can kill Spearman and Pikeman units without taking any damage and without support from other units. Can Companion Cavalry say the same?

Even if a Spearman survives a Keshik attack, the Keshik can move away from the Spearman, if the Keshik still has leftover movement points. If a Keshik gets killed by a City State Spearman, it's because the player wasn't budgeting the Keshik's movement points effectively, not because the Keshik sucks.

Besides, similar things would happen to Companion Cavalry if the player was using them in the same way he lost the Keshiks.

 

[Udey1]

Played Mongols scenario... it got pwned by a spearman belonging to a city state!

I don't think you grasp how Keshiks are supposed to operate. The unit is built for hit and run tactics. Movement ability after attack means if you got caught by a spearman, you did something wrong, not the Keshik.

 

[Seabastian Civ]

Played Mongols scenario... it got pwned by a spearman belonging to a city state!

One time I kept shooting and shooting at a city that had zero health and eventually the city killed my Chu Ko Nu. Chu Kno Nus SUCK!!!!!!

 

[whyidie]

Camel Archer 15
Carolean 20
Chu-Ko-Nu 39
Janissary 36
Keshik 26
Longbowman 40
Minutemen 27

Up - Keshik shouldn't be this low. Could use a restatement so here we go. Combat and ranged strength are not off the charts. Can hit and run, but so can the camel archers. What makes them great ? 50% more XP. Plus, generates great generals at a greater rate. Not just run of the mill great generals, but great generals that heal units in adjacent tiles without expending the great general. Whats that mean ? That means your already effective Keshiks are going to live longer. So ? The 50% more XP is going to to be used even more. End result ? Insanely promoted units. Promotions you likely won't see with any other unit on this list now with the B1 gone.

Down - Janissarys are great but they need some leveling for the final rounds. Positioning them for the kill adds some additional tactical planning, makes for interesting gameplay, but not OP. With battles occurring near cities and troops withdrawing effectively straight melee attacks are rare in SP. I'll take march which happens regardless of whether I'm approaching and taking heat from a ranged unit, retreating, or on the attack vs a unit which I may not kill.

 

[Lordleoz]

Camel Archer 15
Carolean 16
Chu-Ko-Nu 39
Janissary 36
Keshik 26
Longbowman 41
Minutemen 27

lbm: I found longbowman a bit better than chu-ko-nu. Lbm can fire at cities without being attacked. Also, don't forget that chu-ko-nu has a -4 strength penalty.

Carolean: march is useful, but it's not as significant as the rest UU.