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Unique Units elimination thread

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Tabarnak, Aug 27, 2012.

  1. andreas khan

    andreas khan Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2012
    Messages:
    3
    African Forest Elephant 20
    Atlatist 21
    B17 19
    Ballista 20
    Battering Ram 19
    Berserker 20
    Bowmen 20
    Camel Archer 22
    Carolean 23
    Cataphract 19
    Chu-Ko-Nu 26
    Companion Cavalry 20
    Conquistador 22
    Cossack 18
    Dromon 18
    Foreign Legion 21
    Hakkapeliitta 16
    Hoplite 18
    Horse Archer 23
    Hussar 18
    Hwach'a 19
    Immortal 20
    Jaguar 20
    Janissary 22
    Keshik 25(+1) (simply the best)
    Landsknecht 19
    Legion 22
    Longbowman 25
    Mandekalu Cavalry 16
    Mehal Sefari 18
    Minutemen 21
    Mohawk Warrior 22
    Musketeer 20
    Naresuan's Elephant 21
    Norwegian Ski Infantry 16
    Panzer 16 (-2)
    Pictish Warrior 21
    Quinquereme 18
    Samurai 18
    Sea Beggar 24
    Sipahi 20
    Ship of the Line 22
    Slinger 13
    Tercio 21
    Turtle Ship 14
    War Chariot 6
    War Elephant 21


    (tanks are useless in G K)
     
  2. Carl5872

    Carl5872 Prince

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2008
    Messages:
    772
    Location:
    Mentor, Ohio
    African Forest Elephant 20
    Atlatist 21
    B17 19
    Ballista 20
    Battering Ram 19
    Berserker 20
    Bowmen 20
    Camel Archer 22
    Carolean 23
    Cataphract 19
    Chu-Ko-Nu 26
    Companion Cavalry 20
    Conquistador 22
    Cossack 18
    Dromon 18
    Foreign Legion 21
    Hakkapeliitta 16
    Hoplite 18
    Horse Archer 23
    Hussar 18
    Hwach'a 19
    Immortal 20
    Jaguar 20
    Janissary 22
    Keshik 26(+1)
    Landsknecht 19
    Legion 22
    Longbowman 25
    Mandekalu Cavalry 16
    Mehal Sefari 16 (-2)
    Minutemen 21
    Mohawk Warrior 22
    Musketeer 20
    Naresuan's Elephant 21
    Norwegian Ski Infantry 16
    Panzer 16
    Pictish Warrior 21
    Quinquereme 18
    Samurai 18
    Sea Beggar 24
    Sipahi 20
    Ship of the Line 22
    Slinger 13
    Tercio 21
    Turtle Ship 14
    War Chariot 6
    War Elephant 21

    The only limiting factor once you have a few keshiks and a mele unit to conquering the world is happiness. A bonus tied to your capital city is just too limiting.
     
  3. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak R.I.P.

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,949
    Location:
    Québec
    African Forest Elephant 20
    Atlatist 21
    B17 19
    Ballista 20
    Battering Ram 19
    Berserker 20
    Bowmen 20
    Camel Archer 22
    Carolean 23
    Cataphract 19
    Chu-Ko-Nu 26
    Companion Cavalry 20
    Conquistador 22
    Cossack 18
    Dromon 19
    Foreign Legion 21
    Hakkapeliitta 16
    Hoplite 18
    Horse Archer 23
    Hussar 18
    Hwach'a 19
    Immortal 20
    Jaguar 20
    Janissary 22
    Keshik 26
    Landsknecht 19
    Legion 22
    Longbowman 25
    Mandekalu Cavalry 16
    Mehal Sefari 16
    Minutemen 21
    Mohawk Warrior 22
    Musketeer 20
    Naresuan's Elephant 21
    Norwegian Ski Infantry 16
    Panzer 16
    Pictish Warrior 21
    Quinquereme 18
    Samurai 18
    Sea Beggar 24
    Sipahi 20
    Ship of the Line 22
    Slinger 13
    Tercio 21
    Turtle Ship 12
    War Chariot 6
    War Elephant 21

    Dromon : His unique ability(ranged) makes him special and able to take cities with some support very early. Upgraded later, frigates with 50% bonuses vs other ships make them unstoppable for a while.

    Turtle Ship : I really hate the fact that they can't move outside. I also largely prefer mobile units.
     
  4. Monthar

    Monthar Emperor

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2004
    Messages:
    1,992
    Location:
    Elmendorf, Tx
    You lose the 50% vs naval bonus when you upgrade the dromon.

    Also, the Turtle ship's 36 melee strength is higher than the melee and ranged strength of all ships of the era. Until the ironclad's 50 melee strength comes into play this is the strongest ship available. The next strongest ship of the era is the Ship of the Line with its 35 ranged strength. Even though it can't enter ocean tiles outside your borders, it does still have the same 4 movement the caravel does.
     
  5. Elgalad

    Elgalad Bully!

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2004
    Messages:
    857
    Location:
    Land of the Free, Home of the Brave
    African Forest Elephant 20
    Atlatist 21
    B17 19
    Ballista 20
    Battering Ram 19
    Berserker 20
    Bowmen 20
    Camel Archer 22
    Carolean 23
    Cataphract 19
    Chu-Ko-Nu 26
    Companion Cavalry 20
    Conquistador 22
    Cossack 18
    Dromon 19
    Foreign Legion 21
    Hakkapeliitta 16
    Hoplite 18
    Horse Archer 23
    Hussar 18
    Hwach'a 19
    Immortal 20
    Jaguar 20
    Janissary 22
    Keshik 26
    Landsknecht 19
    Legion 22
    Longbowman 26
    Mandekalu Cavalry 16
    Mehal Sefari 16
    Minutemen 21
    Mohawk Warrior 22
    Musketeer 20
    Naresuan's Elephant 21
    Norwegian Ski Infantry 16
    Panzer 16
    Pictish Warrior 21
    Quinquereme 18
    Samurai 18
    Sea Beggar 24
    Sipahi 20
    Ship of the Line 22
    Slinger 11
    Tercio 21
    Turtle Ship 12
    War Chariot 6
    War Elephant 21


    I like to control the battlefield, not let my opponent do that for me. That's why longbows work so well ~ being able to have a front line of "tanks" and two back rows of "dps" just plain rock, but that's only one of Many useful formations that are available with long range units.

    Slingers are the opposite, because I can't be certain they'll stay where I put them if even one enemy rushes through the line, and once the route starts, it's hard to get the line back in shape again. Their added weakness to melee just plain makes them the worst ranged unit, period.


    -Elgalad
     
  6. Awsome Sause

    Awsome Sause Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2012
    Messages:
    68
    African Forest Elephant 20
    Atlatist 21
    B17 19
    Ballista 20
    Battering Ram 19
    Berserker 20
    Bowmen 20
    Camel Archer 22
    Carolean 23
    Cataphract 19
    Chu-Ko-Nu 26
    Companion Cavalry 20
    Conquistador 22
    Cossack 18
    Dromon 19
    Foreign Legion 21
    Hakkapeliitta 16
    Hoplite 18
    Horse Archer 23
    Hussar 18
    Hwach'a 19
    Immortal 20
    Jaguar 20
    Janissary 22
    Keshik 26
    Landsknecht 19
    Legion 22
    Longbowman 26
    Mandekalu Cavalry 16
    Mehal Sefari 16
    Minutemen 21
    Mohawk Warrior 22
    Musketeer 20
    Naresuan's Elephant 21
    Norwegian Ski Infantry 16
    Panzer 16
    Pictish Warrior 21
    Quinquereme 18
    Samurai 18
    Sea Beggar 24
    Sipahi 20
    Ship of the Line 22
    Slinger 11
    Tercio 21
    Turtle Ship 13
    War Chariot 4
    War Elephant 21

    Turtle Ship: Don't understand the hate for the turtle ship! I don't think any UU has almost double the strength of the unit it replaces, It makes such easy work of cities in that era, plus you can use scouts to explore instead.

    War Chariot: It isn't much better than what it replaces.
     
  7. mintcandy

    mintcandy King

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2012
    Messages:
    609

    African Forest Elephant 20
    Atlatist 21
    B17 19
    Ballista 20
    Battering Ram 19
    Berserker 20
    Bowmen 20
    Camel Archer 22
    Carolean 23
    Cataphract 19
    Chu-Ko-Nu 26
    Companion Cavalry 20
    Conquistador 22
    Cossack 18
    Dromon 19
    Foreign Legion 21
    Hakkapeliitta 16
    Hoplite 18
    Horse Archer 23
    Hussar 18
    Hwach'a 19
    Immortal 20
    Jaguar 20
    Janissary 22
    Keshik 26
    Landsknecht 19
    Legion 22 + 1 = 23
    Longbowman 26
    Mandekalu Cavalry 16
    Mehal Sefari 16
    Minutemen 21
    Mohawk Warrior 22
    Musketeer 20
    Naresuan's Elephant 21
    Norwegian Ski Infantry 16
    Panzer 16
    Pictish Warrior 21
    Quinquereme 18
    Samurai 18
    Sea Beggar 24
    Sipahi 20
    Ship of the Line 22 - 2 = 20
    Slinger 11
    Tercio 21
    Turtle Ship 13
    War Chariot 4
    War Elephant 21

    Another surprising upvote for me, considering I don't use the Romans that much. I wuved how the Civ IV Roman foot UU was as strong as a Maceman, but with less research...the Civ V Roman foot UU doesn't fail to disappoint, again being stronger than the unit it replaces AND their road building ability is great during peacetime...I hate having to escort workers. Faboo!

    The downvote isn't necessarily a criticism of the the unit I downvoted, but rather, a wish that the English could have had the Huscarl unit that they have in the Viking scenario. I was torn between downvoting the Berzerker and the Norwegian Ski Infantry for the same reason. Why didn't I feel the same way about the Longbowman? C'mon, the Huscarl is good, but not THAT good. :p
     
  8. Charlieguns

    Charlieguns Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    33
    Location:
    Lima, Peru
    African Forest Elephant 21 (+1)
    Atlatist 21
    B17 19
    Ballista 20
    Battering Ram 19
    Berserker 20
    Bowmen 20
    Camel Archer 22
    Carolean 23
    Cataphract 19
    Chu-Ko-Nu 26
    Companion Cavalry 20
    Conquistador 22
    Cossack 18
    Dromon 19
    Foreign Legion 21
    Hakkapeliitta 16
    Hoplite 18
    Horse Archer 23
    Hussar 18
    Hwach'a 19
    Immortal 20
    Jaguar 20
    Janissary 22
    Keshik 26
    Landsknecht 19
    Legion 23
    Longbowman 26
    Mandekalu Cavalry 16
    Mehal Sefari 16
    Minutemen 21
    Mohawk Warrior 22
    Musketeer 20
    Naresuan's Elephant 21
    Norwegian Ski Infantry 16
    Panzer 16
    Pictish Warrior 21
    Quinquereme 18
    Samurai 18
    Sea Beggar 24
    Sipahi 20
    Ship of the Line 20
    Slinger 11
    Tercio 21
    Turtle Ship 13
    War Chariot 2 (-2)
    War Elephant 21

    African Elephant: Very very very strong unit.
    War Chariot: I don't use chariots in civ 5. They expose to much after an attack.
     
  9. OmniPotent42

    OmniPotent42 King

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2012
    Messages:
    920
    African Forest Elephant 21
    Atlatist 21
    B17 19
    Ballista 20
    Battering Ram 19
    Berserker 20
    Bowmen 20
    Camel Archer 22
    Carolean 23
    Cataphract 19
    Chu-Ko-Nu 26
    Companion Cavalry 20
    Conquistador 22
    Cossack 18
    Dromon 19
    Foreign Legion 21
    Hakkapeliitta 16
    Hoplite 18
    Horse Archer 23
    Hussar 18
    Hwach'a 19
    Immortal 20
    Jaguar 20
    Janissary 22
    Keshik 26
    Landsknecht 19
    Legion 23
    Longbowman 26
    Mandekalu Cavalry 16
    Mehal Sefari 16
    Minutemen 21
    Mohawk Warrior 23 (+1)
    Musketeer 20
    Naresuan's Elephant 21
    Norwegian Ski Infantry 16
    Panzer 16
    Pictish Warrior 21
    Quinquereme 18
    Samurai 18
    Sea Beggar 24
    Sipahi 20
    Ship of the Line 20
    Slinger 11
    Tercio 21
    Turtle Ship 13
    War Chariot 0 (-2)
    War Elephant 21

    Eh...might as well kill it. Probably the most redundant UU, except for maybe Atlatists.
    Mohawk Warriors are great b/c your warriors upgrade into them, and because they don't require iron you can search for some iron (either from CS's or other Civs) when you want to research Steel. Best swordsman replacement IMO.
     
  10. Loucypher

    Loucypher King

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2012
    Messages:
    797
    African Forest Elephant 21
    Atlatist 21
    B17 19
    Ballista 20
    Battering Ram 19
    Berserker 20
    Bowmen 20
    Camel Archer 22
    Carolean 23
    Cataphract 19
    Chu-Ko-Nu 26
    Companion Cavalry 20
    Conquistador 22
    Cossack 18
    Dromon 19
    Foreign Legion 21
    Hakkapeliitta 16
    Hoplite 18
    Horse Archer 23
    Hussar 18
    Hwach'a 19
    Immortal 20
    Jaguar 20
    Janissary 22
    Keshik 26
    Landsknecht 19
    Legion 23
    Longbowman 26
    Mandekalu Cavalry 16
    Mehal Sefari 16
    Minutemen 21
    Mohawk Warrior 23
    Musketeer 20
    Naresuan's Elephant 21
    Norwegian Ski Infantry 16
    Panzer 16
    Pictish Warrior 21
    Quinquereme 18
    Samurai 18
    Sea Beggar 24 (+1)
    Sipahi 20
    Ship of the Line 20
    Slinger 11
    Tercio 21
    Turtle Ship 11 (-2)
    War Elephant 21

    +: Sea Beggar
    It instantly turns the Dutch sea force into something to behold. When these puppies get upgraded, or produced in a Barracks-having city...hoo boy.
    -: Turtle Ship
    While strong, it should be able to explore...which it can't. Honestly, it's a bit of a silly UU. It should at least like the Ironclad be able to explore albeit at reduced speeds.
     
  11. blackcatatonic

    blackcatatonic Queen of Meme

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2012
    Messages:
    3,111
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    UK
    African Forest Elephant 21
    Atlatist 21
    B17 19
    Ballista 20
    Battering Ram 19
    Berserker 20
    Bowmen 20
    Camel Archer 22
    Carolean 23
    Cataphract 17 (-2)

    Chu-Ko-Nu 26
    Companion Cavalry 20
    Conquistador 22
    Cossack 18
    Dromon 19
    Foreign Legion 21
    Hakkapeliitta 16
    Hoplite 18
    Horse Archer 23
    Hussar 18
    Hwach'a 19
    Immortal 20
    Jaguar 20
    Janissary 22
    Keshik 26
    Landsknecht 19
    Legion 23
    Longbowman 27 (+1)
    Mandekalu Cavalry 16
    Mehal Sefari 16
    Minutemen 21
    Mohawk Warrior 23
    Musketeer 20
    Naresuan's Elephant 21
    Norwegian Ski Infantry 16
    Panzer 16
    Pictish Warrior 21
    Quinquereme 18
    Samurai 18
    Sea Beggar 24
    Sipahi 20
    Ship of the Line 20
    Slinger 11
    Tercio 21
    Turtle Ship 11
    War Elephant 21

    Longbowmen: quite simply, the best non-mounted land-based unit in the game. Something with the range of an Artillery in the Medieval era? Yes please.

    Cataphracts... I don't hate them, but they're just a bit underwhelming. Nor do they seem to happen at the right time in the tech tree. I'd have much preferred them to have been Knight replacements.
     
  12. Babri

    Babri Emperor

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2010
    Messages:
    2,449
    Location:
    Pakistan
    African Forest Elephant 21
    Atlatist 21
    B17 19
    Ballista 20
    Battering Ram 19
    Berserker 20
    Bowmen 20
    Camel Archer 22
    Carolean 23
    Cataphract 17
    Chu-Ko-Nu 26
    Companion Cavalry 20
    Conquistador 22
    Cossack 18
    Dromon 19
    Foreign Legion 21
    Hakkapeliitta 16
    Hoplite 18
    Horse Archer 23
    Hussar 18
    Hwach'a 19
    Immortal 20
    Jaguar 20
    Janissary 22
    Keshik 26
    Landsknecht 19
    Legion 23
    Longbowman 27
    Mandekalu Cavalry 16
    Mehal Sefari 16
    Minutemen 21
    Mohawk Warrior 23
    Musketeer 20
    Naresuan's Elephant 21
    Norwegian Ski Infantry 16
    Panzer 16
    Pictish Warrior 21
    Quinquereme 18
    Samurai 18
    Sea Beggar 24
    Sipahi 20
    Ship of the Line 20
    Slinger 9
    Tercio 21
    Turtle Ship 12
    War Elephant 21

    Voted for turtle ships just to counter the hate about them. I really don't understand the complaining that u can't explore with them. Well we have another awesome UU which people that is called Battering rams which don't get bonus against mounted units & suck at defense. Does that make them bad compared to spears? No it doesn't, they are great at taking cities which is what they are designed for.

    Similarly Turtle ships are beasts, they can't explore but they have some serious advantage over caravels. When going tall & peaceful, many times civs declare war on u, they are annoying & sometimes don't accecpt peace due to their ego. As Korea u can simply create few turtles & start taking their cities. Their strength is much higher than caravels, longswords, muskets & even rifles. Coupled with some city attack promos u can also get some gold from destroying your foes. On defense turtles guarantee that no one can threat u from waters. In G&K waters have become really important, this makes turtles even more useful.

    Slingers are weaker than archers in :c5strength:, have an average promo which is devalued with longer battles in G&K. Also addition of comp bows means that they will obsolete really quickly.
     
  13. PhilBowles

    PhilBowles Deity

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    5,020
    Even if they just found a way to add the graphic I'd like that - but yes, I love the Huscarl's abilities (and icon) too.

    Now about using that Motte & Bailey graphic rather than the Napoleonic fort for Medieval citadels...

    African Forest Elephant 21
    Atlatist 21
    B17 19
    Ballista 20
    Battering Ram 19
    Berserker 20
    Bowmen 20
    Camel Archer 22
    Carolean 23
    Cataphract 17
    Chu-Ko-Nu 26
    Companion Cavalry 20
    Conquistador 22
    Cossack 18
    Dromon 19
    Foreign Legion 21
    Hakkapeliitta 16
    Hoplite 18
    Horse Archer 23
    Hussar 18
    Hwach'a 19
    Immortal 20
    Jaguar 20
    Janissary 22
    Keshik 26
    Landsknecht 19
    Legion 23
    Longbowman 27
    Mandekalu Cavalry 16
    Mehal Sefari 16
    Minutemen 21
    Mohawk Warrior 23
    Musketeer 20
    Naresuan's Elephant 21
    Norwegian Ski Infantry 16
    Panzer 16
    Pictish Warrior 21
    Quinquereme 18
    Samurai 18
    Sea Beggar 24
    Sipahi 20
    Ship of the Line 20
    Slinger 7
    Tercio 21
    Turtle Ship 13
    War Elephant 21

    Duplicating the above poster - no, not because I'm too lazy to change the colours.

    Upvoting the Turtle for all the reasons already stated - everyone who wants it to explore (at reduced speeds or not) appears not to have used it in G&K and/or not to appreciate that it is a unique unit. It's not unbalancing that Ironclads can cross oceans, because anyone can have Ironclads. No one has anything close to the Turtle Ship in power for two entire eras of the game, and simply in principle Korea should hardly be the civ that rules the waves. I rarely use Caravels to explore anyway, since the hammer investment is much higher than for a Scout and I'd rather have them concentrated where they can act as a navy rather than risk getting picked off by aggressors at sea (while a Scout can avoid most enemy ships by disembarking onto the nearest island).

    Downvoting the Slinger despite the fact that it's characterful. Even without the unreliability of the withdraw effect, you don't in any case want to be in a position where it will trigger if you're playing well, making it essentially identical to the unit it replaces for most game purposes.
     
  14. Dogmouth

    Dogmouth King

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    613
    African Forest Elephant 21
    Atlatist 21
    B17 19
    Ballista 20
    Battering Ram 19
    Berserker 20
    Bowmen 20
    Camel Archer 22
    Carolean 23
    Cataphract 17
    Chu-Ko-Nu 26
    Companion Cavalry 20
    Conquistador 22
    Cossack 18
    Dromon 19
    Foreign Legion 21
    Hakkapeliitta 16
    Hoplite 16 (-2)
    Horse Archer 23
    Hussar 18
    Hwach'a 19
    Immortal 20
    Jaguar 20
    Janissary 22
    Keshik 26
    Landsknecht 19
    Legion 23
    Longbowman 28 (+1)
    Mandekalu Cavalry 16
    Mehal Sefari 16
    Minutemen 21
    Mohawk Warrior 23
    Musketeer 20
    Naresuan's Elephant 21
    Norwegian Ski Infantry 16
    Panzer 16
    Pictish Warrior 21
    Quinquereme 18
    Samurai 18
    Sea Beggar 24
    Sipahi 20
    Ship of the Line 20
    Slinger 9
    Tercio 21
    Turtle Ship 12
    War Elephant 21

    The hoplite is ok, but it's extremely dull. A special ability or promotion of some sort wouldhave helped.

    The longbowen went from extremely good in vanilla to insanely good in G&K due to their new upgrade path.
     
  15. Tabarnak

    Tabarnak R.I.P.

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2010
    Messages:
    5,949
    Location:
    Québec
    Hmm not so good then...i will add this info into the OP. Odd that he loses his bonus though 50% is already overpowered so it's understandable.(i would prefer a permanent 15% promo).

    Seriously they still suck. All you need is to attack from ocean with frigates and privateers and let the turtle ship taking damage without a capacity to counter attack properly because you need tiles around to surround all units(pretty lame in mp game imo when you face 7-8 of them, you want more mobile units to counter more effectively). And in sp games it's always better to attack with frigates at this stage of the game. If you need turtle ships to defend yourself, you are doing something wrong.
     
  16. ezbutton

    ezbutton Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2011
    Messages:
    116
    African Forest Elephant 21
    Atlatist 21
    B17 19
    Ballista 20
    Battering Ram 19
    Berserker 18
    Bowmen 20
    Camel Archer 22
    Carolean 23
    Cataphract 17
    Chu-Ko-Nu 26
    Companion Cavalry 20
    Conquistador 22
    Cossack 18
    Dromon 19
    Foreign Legion 21
    Hakkapeliitta 16
    Hoplite 16
    Horse Archer 23
    Hussar 18
    Hwach'a 19
    Immortal 20
    Jaguar 20
    Janissary 22
    Keshik 26
    Landsknecht 19
    Legion 23
    Longbowman 28
    Mandekalu Cavalry 16
    Mehal Sefari 16
    Minutemen 21
    Mohawk Warrior 23
    Musketeer 20
    Naresuan's Elephant 21
    Norwegian Ski Infantry 16
    Panzer 16
    Pictish Warrior 21
    Quinquereme 18
    Samurai 18
    Sea Beggar 24
    Sipahi 20
    Ship of the Line 20
    Slinger 9
    Tercio 22
    Turtle Ship 12
    War Elephant 21

    Mixing it up from my votes from yesterday, so I down-voted berserkers because these guys got nerfed in G&K and in a big way. Longswordsmen rush isn't as viable of a tactic as it was in vanilla and with mustketmen just one tech away they lose their unique +1 movement far too fast and their promotions don't transfer over like the Samurai.

    Up-voted tercio's because at the expense of a few extra hammers (I think its an extra 20 hammers?) it provides the mounted promotion during a time where you potentially have 6 different knight UU's coming at you. A stretch where pikemen are increasingly less effective and really tercios hold you over during that period of time, not to mention these promotions carry over to their upgraded counterpart riflemen and thus help countering another 5 different UU's (lancer and cavalry UU's). I'm a little sad how Spain got eliminated in the civ elimination thread so quickly but their UUs have such great utility and this time I hope they can stick around a little longer.
     
  17. Monthar

    Monthar Emperor

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2004
    Messages:
    1,992
    Location:
    Elmendorf, Tx
    If you're leaving your turtle ships where they can be attacked and not be able to attack back, THEN you are doing something wrong. If the enemy already has frigates and privateers and all you have are turtle ships then you're stupid for not at least getting privateers since it's the very next tech after turtle ships.

    Also, if you have turtle ships then you are definitely playing as Korea since CS's can't gift naval or air units. Therefore, you should have enough BPT to finish Navigation in less than 10 turns after finishing Astronomy. In which case you can then use Privateers to explore. Since Privateers have 5 movement instead of just 4 like the caravel, you can explore faster with them anyway. Alternately, if you have the iron, you can build Galleasses while completing Navigation and immediately upgrade them to frigates to explore with.

    It doesn't matter if you're playing MP or SP, land or naval, if you're using only melee units, or only ranged units, you have a lot more problems that dealing with an enemy keeping their naval units out of reach of your Turtle Ships.

    No, it's not "always better to attack with frigates". Frigates can't capture enemy ships like the privateer can. Frigate's can't capture the city like Turtle ships and Privateers can. Actually it's always better to use the correct unit for the job. Such as using your Turtle ships to prevent any new ships from leaving the city while the ranged units soften it up. Or if there are enough tiles to do so, attacking the city with multiple coastal raider Turtles to collect some cash and make it possible to either take the city in one turn or the very next turn.

    Plus if you do use a Turtle to attack the city even if you can't take it that turn, the defenses are more likely to attack the Turtle that can take more hits than the frigate behind it that can't.

    In any case, you're underestimating how good the Turtle really is when used properly, because you're focusing solely on the fact that it can't enter the ocean.

    Here's my vote for the day.

    African Forest Elephant 21
    Atlatist 21
    B17 19
    Ballista 20
    Battering Ram 17
    Berserker 18
    Bowmen 20
    Camel Archer 22
    Carolean 23
    Cataphract 17
    Chu-Ko-Nu 26
    Companion Cavalry 20
    Conquistador 22
    Cossack 18
    Dromon 19
    Foreign Legion 21
    Hakkapeliitta 16
    Hoplite 16
    Horse Archer 23
    Hussar 18
    Hwach'a 19
    Immortal 20
    Jaguar 20
    Janissary 22
    Keshik 26
    Landsknecht 19
    Legion 23
    Longbowman 28
    Mandekalu Cavalry 16
    Mehal Sefari 16
    Minutemen 21
    Mohawk Warrior 23
    Musketeer 20
    Naresuan's Elephant 21
    Norwegian Ski Infantry 16
    Panzer 16
    Pictish Warrior 21
    Quinquereme 18
    Samurai 18
    Sea Beggar 24
    Sipahi 20
    Ship of the Line 20
    Slinger 9
    Tercio 22
    Turtle Ship 13
    War Elephant 21

    Turtle Ship - See the top of the post.
    Battering Ram - Great for very early rushes when backed-up by horse archers. However, it's easy to kill and any promotions earned with it don't help when it's upgraded to a trebuchet.
     
  18. ezbutton

    ezbutton Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2011
    Messages:
    116
    Hehe, sorry bout that Monthar we posted at nearly the same time! Just had to double check if anyone posted inbetween my write-up and the previous post.
     
  19. Babri

    Babri Emperor

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2010
    Messages:
    2,449
    Location:
    Pakistan
    Dog mouth did a mistake in score. Now corrected. :)

    African Forest Elephant 21
    Atlatist 21
    B17 19
    Ballista 20
    Battering Ram 17
    Berserker 18
    Bowmen 20
    Camel Archer 22
    Carolean 23
    Cataphract 17
    Chu-Ko-Nu 26
    Companion Cavalry 20
    Conquistador 22
    Cossack 18
    Dromon 19
    Foreign Legion 21
    Hakkapeliitta 16
    Hoplite 16
    Horse Archer 23
    Hussar 18
    Hwach'a 19
    Immortal 20
    Jaguar 20
    Janissary 22
    Keshik 26
    Landsknecht 19
    Legion 23
    Longbowman 28
    Mandekalu Cavalry 16
    Mehal Sefari 16
    Minutemen 21
    Mohawk Warrior 23
    Musketeer 20
    Naresuan's Elephant 21
    Norwegian Ski Infantry 16
    Panzer 16
    Pictish Warrior 21
    Quinquereme 18
    Samurai 18
    Sea Beggar 24
    Sipahi 20
    Ship of the Line 20
    Slinger 7
    Tercio 22
    Turtle Ship 14
    War Elephant 21

    Slinger & turtle Ship are updated.
     
  20. glaivemaster

    glaivemaster Prince

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2008
    Messages:
    458
    Location:
    Lancaster, United Kingdom
    African Forest Elephant 21
    Atlatist 21
    B17 17 (-2)
    Ballista 20
    Battering Ram 17
    Berserker 20
    Bowmen 20
    Camel Archer 22
    Carolean 23
    Cataphract 17
    Chu-Ko-Nu 26
    Companion Cavalry 20
    Conquistador 22
    Cossack 18
    Dromon 19
    Foreign Legion 21
    Hakkapeliitta 16
    Hoplite 16
    Horse Archer 23
    Hussar 18
    Hwach'a 19
    Immortal 20
    Jaguar 20
    Janissary 23 (+1)
    Keshik 26
    Landsknecht 19
    Legion 23
    Longbowman 28
    Mandekalu Cavalry 16
    Mehal Sefari 16
    Minutemen 21
    Mohawk Warrior 23
    Musketeer 20
    Naresuan's Elephant 21
    Norwegian Ski Infantry 16
    Panzer 16
    Pictish Warrior 21
    Quinquereme 18
    Samurai 18
    Sea Beggar 24
    Sipahi 20
    Ship of the Line 20
    Slinger 9
    Tercio 21
    Turtle Ship 13
    War Elephant 21

    I love the momentum of the Janissary, the bonus attack plus the healing factor, combined with being the first in the line of gunpowder units really just creates a feeling of power as you roll forward conquest after conquest.

    The B-17 however just doesn't do anything for me that a plain bomber doesn't, if I even bother to use those.
     

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