Unit and building maintenance discussion

Also there are a couple of random units with an ExtraMaintenanceCost in VP. It should probably be removed or expanded to more units.
And in civ mod too. For me this column is not made to make a variation over the eras, only to set the base price of the unit.
It should not be diverted from its primary use.
 
I find that Unit Maintenance costs are only really expensive at the beginning of the game. Afterwards Building Maintenance eclipses it, around Medieval. If we do want Unit Maintenance to matter, we should probably lower Building Maintenance by X%.

I don't think there is somewhere that Maintenance Free Units are listed, perhaps their should be.
Should Maintenance Free Units count as Free Supply?
 
We don't want to punish the players that are behind by giving their low-tech units equal maintenance with the leader's high-tech ones. Turn 500 warrior is an exaggeration, but it's possible to have a scenario where 50 Industrial units fight 40 Modern units, and the Industrial player loses because of the higher maintenance.
This doesn't even exist. When you look at the chart of people's maintenance, most of the maintenance is in BUILDING MAINTENANCE. The formula already exists current game, the Industrial player is already losing because they're in the Industrial era not because of "higher maintenance."
 
Things look better now, at least in Medieval Era.

20230531142703_1.jpg
 
@saamohod The file before was still based on 3.6, so it had the workers not moving bug. This one is correct.
 

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@saamohod Are you planning to make a proposal to bring unit and building costs closer together?
I actually could do it, yes. But I'm not sure that I know how to do it properly now, i.e. do I simply post a thread in the VP Congress section? It seems kinda complicated now. If you feel you can do it correctly and if you feel that the proposal makes sense - feel free to do it.
 
Yes, you can just start a thread there. The most important rules are that the proposal contains exact numbers and that you give a rationale.

The difficult part is finding the right values and making sure their combined effect isn't too weak or too strong. For unit maintenance costs, you could propose to change the values that I described earlier in this thread, and you can try these changes out in your save games to see how strong the effect would be. For building maintenance, I think the previous building maintenance proposal included a list of the costs of each building. You can propose changes to that list. As I said, balancing these values will be the hard part.
 
Yes, you can just start a thread there. The most important rules are that the proposal contains exact numbers and that you give a rationale.

The difficult part is finding the right values and making sure their combined effect isn't too weak or too strong. For unit maintenance costs, you could propose to change the values that I described earlier in this thread, and you can try these changes out in your save games to see how strong the effect would be. For building maintenance, I think the previous building maintenance proposal included a list of the costs of each building. You can propose changes to that list. As I said, balancing these values will be the hard part.
Do I assign the number myself (i.e. 5-23 "name of proposal") or do the mods do it?
 
You can assign it yourself (use sort by title to see the current highest number). If the number is wrong the mods will correct it.
 
This unit maintenance costs with the bug fix look more than fine to me.

There is an assumption that seems to be here that unit maintenance and building maintenance should be more equivalent to each other. I see no real reason why that should be true. The only thing that matters is whether total gold feels right.

The game already assumes that unit maintenance is smaller; that is why the unit maintenance reduction abilities are more numerous and bigger. Real world infrastructure maintenance costs also greatly exceed military spending.
 
@pineappledan I agree with your points.
In my current game (latest version, Information Era) my unit/building maintenance is 1.3k/4.3k. Look pretty reasonable to me at this point.
Compare it to the numbers in previous version that made me start this thread:

1688741599863.png


It used to be 1/7 ratio, now it's 1/3 and it seems reasonable to me.
I.e. I consider it fixed.
 
I was just reminded that I wanted to propose the change to replace elapsed game turns by the percentage of researched techs in the unit scaling formula. Unit cost scaling will then feel more similar across difficulty levels, and players that are behind will have lower unit costs. I will calculate this through and make a proposal.
 
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