Unit design

[Psychic_Llamas]

an exept from the Wood elves rule book on the great stag:

"no beast in athel loren is treasured more than the Great Stag, a creature that the woodelves frever as representing the true soul of the forest. Wherever the truth of its nature lies, the Great Stag is unquestionably a magical creature, though apparently one of a nobler cast than the Unicorn. Such a beast only ever seems to appear in portentous times, commonly when great danger threatens the forest-though one is occasionally in evidence at times of great celebration and is interpreted as a great blessing when it does appear...not only is the stag a formidable opponent in battle, its very presence can inspire those those around it to greater heights of bravery..."

Go here to see what a normal stag looks like:http://www.jackbergsales.com/misc/Tap._35_The_Great_Stag_a.JPG

 

[Ploeperpengel]

an exept from the Wood elves rule book on the great stag:

"no beast in athel loren is treasured more than the Great Stag, a creature that the woodelves frever as representing the true soul of the forest. Wherever the truth of its nature lies, the Great Stag is unquestionably a magical creature, though apparently one of a nobler cast than the Unicorn. Such a beast only ever seems to appear in portentous times, commonly when great danger threatens the forest-though one is occasionally in evidence at times of great celebration and is interpreted as a great blessing when it does appear...not only is the stag a formidable opponent in battle, its very presence can inspire those those around it to greater heights of bravery..."

Go here to see what a normal stag looks like:http://www.jackbergsales.com/misc/Tap._35_The_Great_Stag_a.JPG

ok they'll get Bambi as soon I cut the heads of the deer resource!

Edit: updated woodelves

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

lol, make a Bambi hero! do it!!

The beastmasters a good idea

maybe give the spellsingers an ability called 'strangling vines'.
~the spellsinger could engineer a small package of ivy and briar seeds which they trow at the walls and other fortifications. they then cast 'spells' which encorages these seed to sprout and grow rapidly, and as they grow, they weedle into cracks in the mortar and crumble the walls, forcing loose bricks out and eventually bringing the walls down. these vines also act as climbing frames which the other invading wood elves can climb up and attack the defenders.
just an idea to make up for the absence of artilery

 

[Ploeperpengel]

lol, make a Bambi hero! do it!!

The beastmasters a good idea

maybe give the spellsingers an ability called 'strangling vines'.
~the spellsinger could engineer a small package of ivy and briar seeds which they trow at the walls and other fortifications. they then cast 'spells' which encorages these seed to sprout and grow rapidly, and as they grow, they weedle into cracks in the mortar and crumble the walls, forcing loose bricks out and eventually bringing the walls down. these vines also act as climbing frames which the other invading wood elves can climb up and attack the defenders.
just an idea to make up for the absence of artilery

Yeah put that in the spell thread. As soon Ollues made the basics we can work on those ideas

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

no no, you miss understood me. its not a spell as such, just an ability, like bombard only with a rampaging pakage of seeds instead of a boulder. (ill put it in the spell thread too though if you insist )

For the highelves, a few of my suggestions, mostly just renames.

Galley: Swan Ship (for wood elves too?)

Pikemen: Phoenix guard

Militia Swordsman: Sword Masters of Hoeth

Hedge-Wizard: High Elven Mage

Wizard: High Elven Mage Lord

 

[Duke van Frost]

I´m not sure if the woddelves shouldn´t get any Artillery at all, that´s a BIG misadvantage to me. But I can´t come up with any good Artillery for them, except a Boltthrower maybe. They should get something like this "Seed" thin P.L. talked about or at least some artillery replacing spells (another idea would be Treeman and treekin tearing down the walls of civilization - being able to reduce city defenses).

 

[Duke van Frost]

this may be slightly OT but it´s the best place for this I think, so:

I included an WECottage in my latest files that only upgrades up to village (no town), because he food bonus plus the production from the woods is already good enough I think and woodelves wouldn´t want to build big settlements in the holy woods of Athel Loren. I´ll also change the gfx sometime soon, thats why i included extra folders for those improvements.

the lines for the UnitInfo.xml are the following (needed for workers):

<Build>
<BuildType>BUILD_WECOTTAGE</BuildType>
<bBuild>1</bBuild>
</Build>


And I&#180;ll post the code for the Brewery Improvement also here:

<Build>
<BuildType>BUILD_BREWERY</BuildType>
<bBuild>1</bBuild>
</Build>

Will post these 2 also in the unitdesign thread.

 

[Ploeperpengel]

(another idea would be Treeman and treekin tearing down the walls of civilization - being able to reduce city defenses).

Yes that's something they should indeed be able to do. Know how?

 

[Duke van Frost]

It&#180;s a simple entry in the UnitInfo.xml.

 

[DutchJunkie]

I joined today. Thanks for letting me part of this. Currently I&#8217;m working on maps, but I got some ideas to share too.

- Kislev should get an icebear as a monster. In Warhammer a general for Kislev can be chosen mounted on one.
- Barbarians should be orcs, goblins, skaven in my opinion. Maybe a giant or ogre or some beast once in a while.

Got many armybooks at home (original and some pdf) .. and many white dwarf magzines.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
!!!Question!!!

1. is it useful to start writing civilopedia entries? I would like to do that in some part ..
2. Are there going to be dogs of war in this mod? a technology that allows for example empire to get kislev winged lancers, a giant or some ogres?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I&#8217;ll keep all my ideas in this post to keep the thread as small as possible. That way it&#8217;s better to navigate through the ideas

Edit (morning june 20th):

*Bretonnia:
- Bretonnian light cavalry should be named Knight Errant.
- I don't like the Halflings here .. Bretonnians can't use dogs of war in the game cause they don't like other races .. yeoman scout and yeoman explorer would be better.
- Bretonnia got no crossbowmen.

*Empire:
- Shaman could be Warrior Priest. Priest may sound a bit too fancy in this age, but Warrior makes it sound better.
- No Kislev forces in this army, because Kislev is on it's own.
- Wizard could be Prophet of Sigmar.
- Hedge-wizard could be .. simply Empire Wizard?

*Dark Elves:
- In Warhammer the assassin has an specific role in the dark elves army. It should be added to the list like assassins in the &#8216;Total Realism&#8217;-mod, which can be found on this forum.
- The militia could be called Corsairs (which are warriors with snakelike skin as light armour)
- The special unit is not very special .. a Beastmaster on a Manticore would be more awesome (or Manticore should be added next to War Hydra)
- Shades should be explorers, or scouts ..
- Cauldron of blood would be a nice building btw .. I'll post that in the buildings thread!
- And where are the Witch Elves .. we definitely need some beautiful female warriors in the game!

*Dwarfs:
- Dwarfs only use axes and hammers .. archers, spearman and swordsman are not dwarflike ..
- No ogres (not any monsters btw) in the army .. dwarfs distrust every other race.
- Slayers (with the orange hair) are nice as monsters (different types: Trollslayers as I, Giantslayers as II and Daemonslayers as III)
- Runelord should be in age of discovery .. it&#8217;s powerfull!
- Malakai Makaison's Goblin Hewer would be nice too
- Doomseekers are nice to be added too (similar like goblin fanatics, but with orange hair and more coordination )
- ANVIL OF DOOM (maybe a building or a special unit)

*Beasts of Chaos:
Ancient
Worker: Ungor worker (Ungor are small and weak &#8211; like goblins)
Ancient Warrior: Gor Warrior (Gor are the bigger beasts)
Ancient Spearman: Gor Spearman
Ancient Archer: Gor Archer
Ancient Axeman: Gor Axeman
Ancient Swordman: Gor Swordsman (sounds silly .. a beast swordsman)
Shaman: Beastman Shaman
Chariot: Beastman chariot (with boars .. like O&G)
Monster: Chaos ogre
Scout: Ungor scout

Age of Magic
Militia Spearman: Bestigor Spearman
Militia Archer: Bestigor archer
Militia Swordsman: Bestigor Bowman
(depending on chosen religion undivided, khorne or nurgle it should be Bestigor, Khorngor or Pestigor)(I don't know if Beastmen worship Tzeentch too ..)
Light Knight: Centigors (crossing between Gor and a horse)
War Chariot: Bestigor, Khorngor or Pestigor Chariot?
Monster II: Chaos Trolls
Explorer: Ungor explorer

Age of Discovery
Royal Guard: Minotaurs
Heavy Knight: Armoured Centigors

Mechanical Age
Monster III: Dragon Ogres

*Hordes of Chaos:
Ancient
Marauder peasant
Ancient Warrior: Marauder
Ancient Spearman: Marauder Spearman
Ancient Archer: Marauder Archer
Ancient Axeman: Marauder Axeman
Ancient Swordman: Marauder Swordsman
Shaman: Marauder shaman
Light cavalry: warhounds of choas
Chariot: Marauder chariot
Monster I: nurglings (if nurgle), screamers and flamers (if tzeentch), khorne flesh hounds (if khorne)
Scout: marauder scout

Age of Magic
Citizen
Militia Spearman: chaos warrior Spearman
Militia Archer: chaos warrior Bowman
Militia Swordsman: chaos warrior Bowman
Light Knight: Marauder horsemen
Hedge-Wizard: sorcerer of chaos
War Chariot: Choas warrior chariot
Monster II: spawn of chaos
Explorer: marauder explorer

Age of Discovery
Royal Guard: Bloodletter (khorne), daemonettes (slaanesh), horrors (tzeentch), plaguebearers (nurgle)
Pikemen: Choas warrior Pikemen
Longbowmen: None
Crossbowmen: NONE
Heavy Knight: Knights of Chaos, daemonettes on mounts of slaanesh (if slaanesh)
Wizard: Champion of khorne, nurgle, slaanesh or tzeentch
Cannon: none

Mechanical Age
Musketman: none (hellcanon of choas instead) (=insane strong half-daemon cannon)
Monster III: (Bloodthirster) Greater Daemon of Khorne, (Great Unclean One) Greater Daemon of Nurgle, Greater Daemon of Tzeentch (Lord of change), Greater Daemon of slaanesh (Keeper of secrets).
Special Unit: Daemon prince

*Goblins
- i like goblins to be all goblins .. no orcs .. otherwise a loose gobbo's race is not fulfilling.
- goog's can't handle a wyvern .. they can have a giant squig instead (like the one skarsnik has) or simply a giant.


Edit (late morning june 20th):

*Vampire Counts
There are mainly four vampire-species in the warhammer world: Von carstein, lahmian, strigoi, necrarch and blood dragon. With vampires we too should have the discussion to make five types of religion or five leaders (the latter imho). Leaders could be:
- Zacharias the Everliving (Necrarch)
- Mannfred von Carstein
- Ushoran, the Lord of Masks (Strigoi)
- Neferata, the Queen of Lahmia
- Abhorash, the Lord of Blood (Blood Dragon)

Ancient
Worker: human Worker (vampires need blood , except for Necrarchs btw)
Ancient Warrior: human Warrior
Ancient Spearman: human Spearman
Ancient Archer: human Archer
Ancient Axeman: human Axeman
Ancient Swordman: human Swordsman
Shaman: Dark Shaman
Horse-Archer: None, Dire Wolfs instead
Catapult: ?
Chariot: ?
Monster I: Doom Wolf (a really strong dire wolf (pack leader))
Scout: Human Scout
Galley: ?

Age of Magic

Citizen
Militia Spearman: skeleton Spearman
Militia Archer: Skeleton Archer
Militia Swordsman: Skeleton Swordsman
Light Knight: None, Fell Bats instead
Hedge-Wizard: Necromancer
Bolt-Thrower: None, zombies as alternative militia instead
War Chariot: Skeleton Chariot
Monster II: Winged Nightmare
Explorer: Bat Swarm
Caravel: ?

Age of Discovery
Royal Guard: Grave Guard
Pikemen: None, Ghouls instead
Longbow: None (only skeleton longbowmen for blooddragon)
Crossbow: ?
Heavy Knight: Black Knights
Wizard: (specific) Vampire
Cannon: None, Skull-catapult instead
Galleon: ?
Frigate: ?

Mechanical Age
Musketman: None
Monster III: Zombie Dragon
Ironclad: ?
Special Unit: Black Coach

ps .. wraiths and banshees should be avaiable too, but where? It's a one miniaturemodel lika a monster, but it isn't a monster .. more a special unit like the black coach


*Ogre Kingdoms:
Ancient
Worker: Gnoblar worker
Ancient Warrior: Gnoblar warrior
Ancient Spearman: Gnoblar Spearman
Ancient Archer: Gnoblar Archer
Ancient Axeman: Gnoblar Axeman
Ancient Swordman: Gnoblar Swordsman
Shaman:
Horse-Archer:
Catapult: Grudge-Thrower
Chariot: NONE, get Transport wagon instead
Monster I: Ogre (only few and expensive Ogres in the first stages of the game)
Scout: Gnoblar Trappers
Galley

Age of Magic
Citizen
Militia: Ogre Bulls
Hedge-Wizard: Ogre butcher
Bolt-Thrower: Gnoblar scraplauncher (mobile crappy launcher )
War Chariot: None
Monster II: Yhetees (looks like a yeti)
Explorer: Gnoblar explorer
Caravel

Age of Discovery
Royal Guard: Ogre Ironguts
Heavy Knight: Ogre Maneater
Wizard: Ogre supreme butcher?
Galleon
Frigate: ?

Mechanical Age
Musketman: Ogre Leadbelchers (Ogre&#8217;s with cannons as guns &#61514
Monster III: Gorgers (ogres that were born without a big belly and therefore thrown into warpstonepits. The mutated into fearsome and mad beings.)
Ironclad: ?
Special Unit: Ogre Hunter


Edit (afternoon june 20th):

*Tomb Kings
Leaders:
- Tomb Queen Khalida
- Settra the Imperishable

Ancient
Worker: Human
Ancient Warrior: Human Warrior
Ancient Spearman: Human Spearman
Ancient Archer: Human Archer
Ancient Axeman Human boyz
Ancient Swordman: Human with Swords
Shaman: Dark Shaman / Fallen Shaman
Horse-Archer: Human
Catapult
Chariot: None
Monster I: Carrion
Scout: Human

Age of Magic
Citizen
Militia Spearman: Skeleton Spearmen
Militia Archer: Skeleton Archer
Militia Swordsman: Skeleton Swordsman
Light Knight: Skeleton Horsemen
Hedge-Wizard: Tomb Priest
War Chariot: Skeleton Chariot
Monster II: Tomb Scorpion
Explorer: Tomb Swarm

Age of Discovery
Royal Guard: Tomb Guard
Heavy Knight: None, Ushabti
Wizard: Liche Priest

Monster III: Bone Giant
Special Unit: Tomb King Chariot, Casket of Souls (maybe a building like Cauldron of blood)

*Lizardmen
Ancient
Worker: Skink Worker
Ancient Warrior: Skink Warrior
Ancient Spearman: Skink Spearman
Ancient Archer: Skink Archer
Shaman: Skink Priest
Monster I: Salamander and Skink handlers
Scout: Chameleon Skinks

Age of Magic
Citizen
Militia Spearman: Saurus Spearman
Militia Archer: Skink Archer (Saurusses can&#8217;t shoot &#61514
Militia Swordsman: Saurus Swordsman
Light Knight: Cold One Cavalry (skinks on cold ones)
Hedge-Wizard: Skink Prophet
Monster II: Oldblood on Carnosaur
Explorer: Jungle Swarm

Age of Discovery
Royal Guard: Temple Guard
Pikemen: None, but Kroxigor must be somewhere
Heavy Knight: Terradon Rider
Wizard: Slann Mage Priest (Extremely powerful .. most powerful wizard in the game)

Mechanical Age
Monster III: Stegadon

*Skaven
Just like the Dark Elves, Skaven got assassins!

Ancient
Worker: Slaverat Worker
Ancient Warrior: Clanrat Warrior
Ancient Spearman: Clanrat Spearman
Ancient Archer: Clanrat Archer
Ancient Axeman: Clanrat Axeman
Ancient Swordman: Clanrat Swordsman
Monster I: Giant Rats
Scout: Rat Swarms

Age of Magic
Citizen
Militia Spearman: Stormvermin Spearman
Militia Archer: Stormvermin Archer
Militia Swordsman Stormvermin Swordsman
Monster II: Rat Ogres
Explorer: Night runners, Gutter runners

Age of Discovery
Royal Guard: Plague Monks
Wizard: Warlock Engineer
Warpfire throwers, Poisoned wind Globadiers.

Mechanical Age
Musketman: Ratling gun teams, Warplock jezzails.
Warp-lightning Cannon
Special Unit: Screaming Bell (maybe building like Cauldron of Blood)

 

[Duke van Frost]

I joined today. Thanks for letting me part of this. Cuurently im working on maps, but i got some ideas to share too.

- Kislev should get an ice-bear (is that correct english?) as a monster. In warhammer a general for kislev can be chosen mounted on one.
- Barbarians should be orcs, goblins, skaven in my opinion. Maybe a giant or Ogre or some beast once in a while.

I could give my (unit)ideas about chaos if you like? i'll write and post em tomorrow then. I can do the same for Vampires/sylvanians.

Got many armybooks at home (orignail and some old .pdf) .. and many white dwarfs.

You can give all ideas that you want, we will discuss everything here, that&#180;s what this forum is all about - ideas, ideas, ideas.

I like the one about the icebear. Orcs shouldn&#180;t be Barbarians in my opinion, they will be a whole civ as will be orcs and skaven. Chaos will be also a civ but small chaosbands seems to be better fitting for Barbarians IMO.

EDIT: And If you&#180;re working on maps, you should open a thread about this. Give people a place where they can post their maps from WH (not the cIV ones but the sources to make them). And you could show us what you&#180;re currently working on from time to time in such a thread.

And I just saw that Kislev has a Beastmaster with an icebear as the first monster.

 

[DutchJunkie]

You can give all ideas that you want, we will discuss everything here, that&#180;s what this forum is all about - ideas, ideas, ideas.

I like the one about the icebear. Orcs shouldn&#180;t be Barbarians in my opinion, they will be a whole civ as will be orcs and skaven. Chaos will be also a civ but small chaosbands seems to be better fitting for Barbarians IMO.

EDIT: And If you&#180;re working on maps, you should open a thread about this. Give people a place where they can post their maps from WH (not the cIV ones but the sources to make them). And you could show us what you&#180;re currently working on from time to time in such a thread.

And I just saw that Kislev has a Beastmaster with an icebear as the first monster.

I agree .. Orcs should be a race .. and Goblins and Choas too. And barbarians could be marauding choas bands .. good idea! But i like the idea that barbarians could be any of these races, depending on the location on the map maybe. Night goblins for example are scattered in small tribes around the world edge mountains and skaven can be found anywhere (in sewers of any major city).

ps .. i'll post my unit ideas in my previous post (in 15 minutes) to keep the amount of posts low
ps2 .. how do i create that spoiler thingy? otherwise my posts get so big

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

Welcome to the team DutchJunkie!
I really like you ideas on units for bretonnia (didnt think about them not liking mercenaries etc) the empire spell caster changes are good also.

I really like the beast men ideas. i dont have a beastman book, and dont have much info on them so thats very useful i think

 

[Agent 009]

@agent 009

Please check those in too
Rabbits awesome Wolfrider! As Orc Boarrider(we don't have Boars yet)
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=174639

seZ Teamcolor Paladin(Placeholder for Bretonnian Paladins)
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=173883

Zhuuls animals mod
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=157031

LOL BIG LETTERS!!! I couldn't miss it.

Ok I downloaded these as well.

I was having a problem with the formations file. The one I used for my mod was a modified original that someone made. It looked like a proper Firaxis XML file so it was easy to edit. The one that comes with the regiments mod was just too difficult for me to bother with so I had to get a program that would read it properly.

Luckily it only took 2 hrs to download and install so I will have a real easy time with it now.

I'll be working around the clock for the next 5 or 6 days to get all the rest done. I hope it won't take too long and with minimal errors.

I'll edit my first post in this topic with a complete description of what I have done hopefully by Sunday at the latest.

 

[Ploeperpengel]

Ok, I think the python will need that time too and a delay of two days is ok Thx for all your effort.

 

[sela1s1son]

I've searched this forum and can't find the list of units needing Civilopedia enteries. I have 7 army books: Empire, Orcs and Gobbos, Vampire Counts, Dwarfs, Brets, Lizardmen, Skaven... I also have the Kislev PDF.

 

[Ploeperpengel]

Have a look at the spoilers in the first two posts. They all need them except Darkelves.

 

[sela1s1son]

Have a look at the spoilers in the first two posts. They all need them except Darkelves.

Oops. I feel stupid now. I'll start working on the Empire unit civilopedia enteries first, then I'm move on to Orcs.

Should I include a quote befitting certain/each enteries? IE a funny few sentences for an Orc warmachine? *IE: the one quote from the rulebook where the Orc wonders why the rock lobba's ammo is screaming when it really is a Gobbo who was accidently launched*

 

[Ploeperpengel]

Oops. I feel stupid now. I'll start working on the Empire unit civilopedia enteries first, then I'm move on to Orcs.

Should I include a quote befitting certain/each enteries? IE a funny few sentences for an Orc warmachine? *IE: the one quote from the rulebook where the Orc wonders why the rock lobba's ammo is screaming when it really is a Gobbo who was accidently launched*

I don't have the armybook but sound s good
As soon you finished some you can start a thread for Unitpedia
Upload the files separatly there for each of the civs. Thx for the effort. I know it's alot of work and really appreciate everything I can get.

 

[sela1s1son]

I'm trying to find an example of Civilopedia enteries in XML, particuarly for the unit ones... but I can't find them in this or other mods. Modding ST Armada was easier ;-)

Would it be to big a problem if I wrote them in regular text files and trusted someone to XML-ize them? As that may be needed if I can't find a template, let alone know what tags and all to use (as an example from the Shinto religion mod: <Tag>TXT_KEY_BUILDING_SHINTO_SHRINE</Tag> )

I hate to have this lead to more work for other folks, but Civ IV seems much harder to mod then Civ III. I plan on helping, I just need a little help figuring out how things work. ;-)