Unit Promotions

[pholtz]

I believe we saw the complete promotion table for melee units in the Germany video by Firaxis. Have we seen the ranged promotions? Sea unit promotions?

In general, it seems to me that the melee promotions aren't as overpowered as the Civ V promotions. If this holds true for the other promotions, it means that the player will not have quite as powerful a group of core units with high promotions available to him late in the game. The human use of this group of high promotions core units is one of the advantages it has over the AI. If the promotions aren't as powerful, perhaps it increases the difficulty a bit?

And in general, I wonder if Firaxis is looking at the way we beat the AI in earlier Civ games and is trying to reduce the human advantage over the AI. Could Deity be harder in Civ VI? I hope so, it was too easy in V.

 

[AriochIV]

We've seen the first tier promotions for most of the unit types.
http://well-of-souls.com/civ/civ6_units.html#promotions

Recon promotions:
I Ranger: Faster movement in forest terrain
I Alpine: Faster movement in hilly terrain

Melee promotions:
I Battlecry: +7 when attacking melee and ranged units.
II Commando: Can scale Cliff walls.
III Zweihander: +7 Combat Strength vs. anti-cavalry units
I Tortoise: +10 when defending against ranged attacks.
II Amphibious: No Combat Strength and Movement penalty when attacking from sea or river.
III Urban Warfare: +10 Combat Strength when attacking in a district.
IV Elite Guard: +1 additional attack per turn if Movement allows. Can move after attacking.

Spearman promotions:
I Echelon: +5 combat bonus vs. cavalry units.
I Thrust: +10 combat bonus vs. melee units.

Cavalry promotions:
I Charge: +10 attack vs. fortified defender.
I Barding: +7 defense vs. ranged attacks.

Ranged promotions:
I Volley: +5 ranged attack vs. land units.
II Arrow Storm: +7 ranged attack vs. land and naval units
I Garrison: +10 combat bonus when occupying a district or fort.

Siege promotions:
I Grape Shot: +7 combat bonus vs. land units.
I Crew Weapons: +7 combat bonus when defending.

Naval promotions:
I Embolon: +7 Attack vs. naval units.
I Helmsman: +1 movement.

 

[Silverdawn]

AriochIV - I know you've summarized it but how about adding a screenshot of the new promotion tree UI from the Germany build @ 1:06:00 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SAXuQwB07Y)

 

[AriochIV]

AriochIV - I know you've summarized it but how about adding a screenshot of the new promotion tree UI from the Germany build @ 1:06:00 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SAXuQwB07Y)

Yeah, I have a decent screengrab of it, just haven't got around to it yet.

 

[pholtz]

It looks like the melee promotions are weaker than in V, but we can't say much about the others yet. I hope they aren't too strong either. The AI just can't handle a human attacking with a core of highly promoted units in Civ V.

 

[stealth_nsk]

It looks like the melee promotions are weaker than in V, but we can't say much about the others yet. I hope they aren't too strong either. The AI just can't handle a human attacking with a core of highly promoted units in Civ V.

They look more powerful than Civ5 promotions if you take into account the new combat mechanics.

 

[Nikae]

It looks like the melee promotions are weaker than in V, but we can't say much about the others yet. I hope they aren't too strong either. The AI just can't handle a human attacking with a core of highly promoted units in Civ V.

Bashing the weak AI never goes out of fashion, but what would you do against an equal force if you had basic units against march/medic/range/logistics hordes?

In a domination game with Persia on a huge map I had 6-8 helicopters with shock/drill III, march, medic, cover II, logistics, amphibious plus all the original upgrades of Immortals, Pikemen, Lancers, Anti-armor and Helicopters. Good luck stopping those, along with the similarly strong tanks that started as horsemen, and all the rest.

Same happens every time, with every unit, they can be upgraded into being extremely overpowered and then people complain about how stupid the AI is

The problem with civ5 was that promotions were too powerful, included march/repair and the human player could always stack them infinitely. Quite easily as well, city state xp farming was neither hard nor risky.

Edit: Sadly it was the only way to beat the AI's endless hordes on Deity.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

They look more powerful than Civ5 promotions if you take into account the new combat mechanics.

They may give more raw combat value, but +1 range, logistics and march were far better than any combat boost in human v AI battles.
(Which is good that they are removing those 'human cheats')

 

[stealth_nsk]

They may give more raw combat value, but +1 range, logistics and march were far better than any combat boost in human v AI battles.
(Which is good that they are removing those 'human cheats')

The last melee unit promotion is - "+1 additional attack per turn if movement allows. Can move after attacking", which is generally similar to Blitz. We didn't see last promotions for ranged units, but I wouldn't be surprised to see +1 range.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

The last melee unit promotion is - "+1 additional attack per turn if movement allows. Can move after attacking", which is generally similar to Blitz. We didn't see last promotions for ranged units, but I wouldn't be surprised to see +1 range.

Blitz was good, but when on non cavalry units, not as game breaking like +1 range or logistics (partly due to melee weakness)

 

[stealth_nsk]

Blitz was good, but when on non cavalry units, not as game breaking like +1 range or logistics (partly due to melee weakness)

We didn't see high-level promotions for non-melee units. Since melee units have the same type of top promotion, we could extrapolate the ranged unit promotions will be quite similar too.

Although with different balance between melee and ranged units, the value of promotions will be different too.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

We didn't see high-level promotions for non-melee units. Since melee units have the same type of top promotion, we could extrapolate the ranged unit promotions will be quite similar too.

Although with different balance between melee and ranged units, the value of promotions will be different too.

True...but +1 range (especially on a r 2 unit) is a massive change in city sieges, (and pretty big in general)

 

[BrokenBokken]

True...but +1 range (especially on a r 2 unit) is a massive change in city sieges, (and pretty big in general)

Proper encampment placement could help limit this. Cities could hit much farther away than just two tiles.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Proper encampment placement could help limit this. Cities could hit much farther away than just two tiles.

Which is another thing that they might do...if your city/encampment ranged attack has the Strength of your strongest ranged unit, maybe it has the Range of your strongest ranged unit as well (city walls+slinger=range1, city walls+archery tech=range 2, city walls +artillery tech=range 3)