Unit Transport over water.

gibson1314

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Now I have read there are no transport vessels for land units, and they will just transport automatically when in water. Will this only occur from city ports or off any land mass? It would be a tad silly if you could just enter the water to get around a unit on land for example.
 
i don't think we know if they have to embark from cities yet. but i would support it anyway, i have spent way too much time tediusly transporting units over a gap of 1 coast.
 
Remember though, it takes a turn to do, and, with the exception of Siam (?), you're COMPLETELY defenseless.
 
Since this gets asked a lot, here is an image demonstrating it:

embark_mode1.jpg


The Swordsman unit is not on a city, but is standing on a coast tile (in a plantation). The Embark action moves him into the water and converts him to a transport. The nearest city is 2 hexes away.
 
There is strong evidence that units can embark on water from any coast tile.

I don't think that's very true to life, I mean it's extremely difficult to transport troops and machinery around the world. It is a pain transporting troops in Civ4, but a compromise would be you have to at least go to a city which has a port to launch into the sea.

I think it gives a massive advantage to warmongers being able to just cross the sea at any point. Aren't most sea squares costal after all?
 
Since this gets asked a lot, here is an image demonstrating it:

embark_mode1.jpg


The Swordsman unit is not on a city, but is standing on a coast tile (in a plantation). The Embark action moves him into the water and converts him to a transport. There's no city within several hexes.

By the look of that screenshot you are right Arioch I suppose we'll just have to SEA how it plays in the game.

Sorry bad pun!
 
Now I have read there are no transport vessels for land units, and they will just transport automatically when in water. Will this only occur from city ports or off any land mass? It would be a tad silly if you could just enter the water to get around a unit on land for example.

The fact that the have removed transport units should allow AI to be more proficient in overseas invasions which in Civ4 was absolutely lacking.
With a bit of abstraction it isn't also that silly considered that transporting unit should be still limited by technologies and that the units are defenseless on the sea so during war it can't be abused.
 
I agree that this makes it perhaps too easy to mount a sea invasion, but unfortunately the 1 unit per tile limitation makes it necessary. Having to move each unit one at a time through a city, one per turn, is just too much of a pain.

This is dead on the money right here. If the point is to make it so sea invasions are actually possible, then letting all units move into sea tiles from any coast is a MUST.

I desperately hope that naval combat becomes fun in this series, as it's been the wet blanket of the franchise from Civ 1.
 
I wonder if there will be a tech that you must have before this becomes possible or will the floatation device change with each period perhaps.
I see where you guys are coming from that the lack of hexes will be a problem when moving armies. I assume only other ships will be able to attack land units on sea, therefore having a navy to defend your coast is essential now.
 
Perhaps you could only embark from your own territory? Not sure if there's anything posted that rules it out.
 
With a bit of abstraction it isn't also that silly considered that transporting unit should be still limited by technologies and that the units are defenseless on the sea so during war it can't be abused.

The AI has ruined many of my games by launching amphibious sneak attacks. I would say that it's rather common on the highest difficulty levels that the enemy sends 5-10 galleons, defended by 10 frigates, loaded with knights and grenadiers straight to your best city and capture it before you even realise what happened. In many cases, I actually prefer to be on the same landmass as an aggressive AI. These attacks are easier to predict and you could place your best units near the borders.
 
What we have to hope is that the AI will be competent at defending its transports, instead of sending them at you like lemmings to be obliterated by your fleets. And that's a tall order, considering that they can't stack.

I thought I read somewhere that embarked land units were treated like civilians, and could stack with military naval units. Have you read anyone who's played the game say opposite?
 
Songhai are pretty much black vikings: they are the ones who can defend at sea when embarking, they get 3x gold from pillaging, and their UU knight would be pretty strong if itwas like the knight.
 
Since this gets asked a lot, here is an image demonstrating it:

embark_mode1.jpg


The Swordsman unit is not on a city, but is standing on a coast tile (in a plantation). The Embark action moves him into the water and converts him to a transport. The nearest city is 2 hexes away.

Well that answers half the question. Now the 2nd half is can we launch outside a coastal city's fat cross. IE in friendly, neutral or enemy territory.
 
I thought I read somewhere that embarked land units were treated like civilians, and could stack with military naval units. Have you read anyone who's played the game say opposite?
One transport can stack with one military naval vessel. I meant the whole fleet can't stack together. A large invasion force will spread across a large area, and it will hard to have enough military vessels to cover them all.

Also keep in mind that ships have ranged attacks, which makes it even harder to protect transports. In order to conduct a successful amphibious invasion against a defended coast, you're really going to have to defeat the defending fleet beforehand. Which is the way it should work.

Also, land units with ranged attacks will be able to bombard the transports as they attempt to land. Again, this is realistic.

Savoir10 said:
Well that answers half the question. Now the 2nd half is can we launch outside a coastal city's fat cross. IE in friendly, neutral or enemy territory.
I don't think friendly territory would be required to Embark on water, because otherwise a unit would be permanently stuck if it landed on a foreign or neutral island.
 
What we have to hope is that the AI will be competent at defending its transports, instead of sending them at you like lemmings to be obliterated by your fleets. And that's a tall order, considering that they can't stack.

Well, in Azazels (what I will call) Infamous Carvel Travells, he on a couple of occasions ran into several "embarked military units" and they had no escorts. Whether he was playing on settler or was it an old build with an AI that needs tweaking I don't know.
Hopefully they will have some sense though not just in naval combat but in land combat too, we dont wan't enemies just gifting us XP with small armies that couldnt even scratch whatever we had defending.

I thought I read somewhere that embarked land units were treated like civilians, and could stack with military naval units. Have you read anyone who's played the game say opposite?

Yeah that has been said, but we don't know if its confirmed, I have yet to see it in action. It may well be that they are simply defenseless military units, still with health, and might take more than one attack to kill, who knows if they keep their "strength" or not. We have no specific confirmation on that.

..................

As far as "but the enemy can just jump onto the water with "Embark Anywhere" and avoid my troops", you forget, they are a sitting target, not just for your navy, but for city bombardment or ranged land troops, sit in the water ungaurded to "run away" at your own peril, I will certainly laugh If I get free XP from embarking lonely troops. Just like capturing a wandering worker.

..............

Personally I think the navy aspect of the game, with maybe the exception of units ignoring the fact they are being fired upon at range when they have ample ranged weapons to fire back with, is very realistic. Including Embarking, if anyone says "but you must have a city" or "you must have tranports already" you are wrong, a turn is 10 years or more, I belive this "turn" is enough time for your army to build a raft. Do you think the viking hordes returned home each time they needed a new boat, no, they merely built it from where ever they were. This is realistic, and certainly much better for gameplay, 1UpT completely rules out "transport vessels" in the old sense, and silly ideas that you can only embark on a harbour improvement or a city are just that, silly. They would spoil what would otherwise be an awesome naval system that Civ has designed, such as the ability for land&sea units & the cities to all combat each other. If units are hampered at getting into the seas then you will hardly ever use them unless you want to make an invasion on another continent, opening up the water tiles like this may mean that an otherwise simple land assault on a nieghbour on your continent can now become an assault of many fronts including the water. This mechanic plus others also makes Navies more important, you cant just allow your waters to be freely travelled by enemies unlike in civ4. This is a great addition for gameplay, but it also ties in nicely with what realism the game gives.
 
I don't think friendly territory would be required to Embark on water, because otherwise a unit would be permanently stuck if it landed on a foreign or neutral island.

I see your point. No Dunkirk. However a win or die scenario for invasion forces would make it just that more intense.

Still you are probably right.
 
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